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Old 10th April 2021, 00:24   #61401  |  Link
el Filou
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"(says source filter)" would tend to indicate that it gets that information from upstream.
What does playing with EVR do?
Would you have any IVTC enabled in the decoder by any chance? I just watched some motorsport video from YouTube encoded with 1:1:1:1:2 cadence, sometimes you see some weird stuff.
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Old 10th April 2021, 01:15   #61402  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
"(says source filter)" would tend to indicate that it gets that information from upstream.
What does playing with EVR do?
Would you have any IVTC enabled in the decoder by any chance? I just watched some motorsport video from YouTube encoded with 1:1:1:1:2 cadence, sometimes you see some weird stuff.
No IVTC, but I think you helped me track down the issue and I think it might be a bug?

EVR's media info showed this:
Code:
Frame rate mode                : Constant
Frame rate                     : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Original frame rate            : 25.000 FPS
What I'm unsure of is what that Original Frame rate means. My guess is interpolation was used to go from 25-60. EVR has no problem playing it back at 60fps, and it certainly looks a lot smoother than 24/25fps content.

Whatever the cause, it seems like madVR shouldn't be keying off that original frame rate value though.
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Old 10th April 2021, 02:59   #61403  |  Link
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How do you know there isn't any IVTC?

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Originally Posted by Mordred View Post
Whatever the cause, it seems like madVR shouldn't be keying off that original frame rate value though.
madVR keys off whatever the source filter tells it. In this case the source filter says the video is 25 fps.

Are you using hardware decoding? Perhaps the GPU is doing IVTC?
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Old 10th April 2021, 07:58   #61404  |  Link
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How do you know there isn't any IVTC?



madVR keys off whatever the source filter tells it. In this case the source filter says the video is 25 fps.

Are you using hardware decoding? Perhaps the GPU is doing IVTC?
Okay, I think I might understand a little more now, but I'm certainly not an expert on this stuff. Upstream in this case is the LAV Video Decoder then.

Yes, LAV is using my GTX 1660 for decoding. Is there any way to tell if IVTC is happening? It makes sense that that's what would be going on given the 25fps original source. Why would hardware vs. software matter? If IVTC is going on, can it be disabled?

Honestly it looks better in VLC and MPC-HC with EVR because of the 60fps.

Last edited by Mordred; 10th April 2021 at 08:01.
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Old 11th April 2021, 01:12   #61405  |  Link
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Try switching to software decoding in LAV, GPU hardware automatically does whatever it thinks it should.

You can tell if the hardware is doing IVTC if it returns fewer frames than you sent it.
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Old 11th April 2021, 21:20   #61406  |  Link
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Is it an mkv? If it is then maybe you can try to edit it with MKVToolNix to change or remove the "original framerate" tag with the header editor.
It could be a transcode where the original was 25 and it was reencoded to 60, with interpolation or with pulldown. What kind of source is it (film, TV, computer gaming, animation)?
If you frame skip in MPC by pausing then pressing Ctrl+right arrow, are some frames repeated or blurred?
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Old 12th April 2021, 09:34   #61407  |  Link
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you could change/add to the name FPS=60. that may work.
the frame rate can be stored at different parts of a file and a splitter/decoder has to choice one.
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Old 13th April 2021, 22:21   #61408  |  Link
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I have a two-monitor setup, main monitor 240hz (BenQ XL2540) second monitor 60hz (Dell S2721QS) (or - in Windows advanced display settings, actually 59.997)

When I play content on the second monitor, ctrl-J correctly shows 60hz, then after a few seconds the video hitches and it switches to 240hz (causing hundreds of presentation glitches per second ofc.)
It's the same duration before this happens every time.
If I swap the player between monitors, it will correctly take each monitor's refresh rate.
But then if it's left on the 60hz monitor it will have this problem after a few seconds.

Is it potentially related to the fact that the 60hz monitor has no "standard mode" according to MadVR?


^ 240hz monitor

^ 60hz monitor

I screwed around with every automatic display rate switching setting in MadVR and MPC-HC to no avail.
Trying to set up custom modes on the 60hz monitor did nothing - most of the modes worked during the test, but remained permanently in "OS isn't aware of this mode yet!" after reboots.

FWIW my 60hz monitor is in flipped portrait mode

Any ideas? Kind of want to lobotomize myself after messing with this for an hour.

Last edited by NDUS; 13th April 2021 at 22:25.
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Old 14th April 2021, 00:37   #61409  |  Link
huhn
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windows has major problems with two refreshrates (they are working on that for some time now).

you should try windows 7 overlay rendering if you have an nvidia GPU this doesn't care about about the refreshrate of the desktop and totally avoids these issues where a composition rate mismatch can happen.
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Old 14th April 2021, 07:45   #61410  |  Link
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Quote:
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windows has major problems with two refreshrates (they are working on that for some time now).

you should try windows 7 overlay rendering if you have an nvidia GPU this doesn't care about about the refreshrate of the desktop and totally avoids these issues where a composition rate mismatch can happen.
I gave it a try (windowed overlay) - sadly no dice, same issue happens. I have a 1070 and am using Win10.
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Old 14th April 2021, 07:48   #61411  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Try switching to software decoding in LAV, GPU hardware automatically does whatever it thinks it should.

You can tell if the hardware is doing IVTC if it returns fewer frames than you sent it.
Ha. I disabled hardware decoding in LAV. Still getting 25fps in MadVR. Here's the crazy thing. I noticed I was getting massively dropped frames for no reason, and then I did the math. MadVR is reporting 35 dropped frames every second... or 60fps minus the 25 it is showing. The video seems extra stuttery in comparison to normal 24fps content which typically looks pretty good. Weird stuff.

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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Is it an mkv? If it is then maybe you can try to edit it with MKVToolNix to change or remove the "original framerate" tag with the header editor.
It could be a transcode where the original was 25 and it was reencoded to 60, with interpolation or with pulldown. What kind of source is it (film, TV, computer gaming, animation)?
If you frame skip in MPC by pausing then pressing Ctrl+right arrow, are some frames repeated or blurred?
It's an MP4 unfortunately. Source is web video. It's by an American content creator though so why the "original" would have ever been 25fps makes absolutely no sense.

I stepped through it in MPC, there appear to be 60 true frames per second, nothing blurred or repeated. So either it was interpolated rather well, or that "Original Frame Rate" value of 25 is just completely bogus.
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Old 14th April 2021, 07:50   #61412  |  Link
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Quote:
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you could change/add to the name FPS=60. that may work.
the frame rate can be stored at different parts of a file and a splitter/decoder has to choice one.
Ho-lee shit. I figured there was no chance this would work, but like magic, MadVR now reporting 60fps and it plays smooth as silk. File already had 60fps in the name, but clearly that wasn't the magic invocation. Thanks for the tip!
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Old 14th April 2021, 09:05   #61413  |  Link
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I gave it a try (windowed overlay) - sadly no dice, same issue happens. I have a 1070 and am using Win10.
can you share a screen of the OSD control+R?
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Old 14th April 2021, 09:13   #61414  |  Link
NDUS
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can you share a screen of the OSD control+R?

Here it is during the first 3ish seconds of the video being transferred or played on the 60hz monitor:
https://i.imgur.com/lfPmO82.png

After the 3ish seconds:
https://i.imgur.com/I0wlxT8.png

I discovered that if I change the monitor's orientation in Windows from Portrait (Flipped) to Landscape, it correctly takes the 59.997fps setting in MadVR and keeps it. Pic:
https://i.imgur.com/bhLD4LI.png

But because this monitor is to be used in portrait, I still have a problem.

Here is the MadVR display modes window with the monitor in Portrait mode:
https://i.imgur.com/NBDfvcS.png (has no standard modes)

And in Landscape mode:
https://i.imgur.com/F4ndIx7.png (has standard modes)

Last edited by NDUS; 14th April 2021 at 09:21.
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Old 14th April 2021, 12:26   #61415  |  Link
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overlay rendering doesn't work with d3d11 it's part of d3d9.
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Old 14th April 2021, 13:14   #61416  |  Link
NDUS
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overlay rendering doesn't work with d3d11 it's part of d3d9.
Ah, thanks. I disabled Direct3D 11 presentation. Now when I play something on the 60hz monitor while it's in portrait mode, the image is either completely black, or severely "offset" - ie. a small corner of the video is visible in the bottom right of the video player frame. I can't take a screenshot of this 'coz of how overlay works.

When I use overlay mode (and D3D9) in Landscape mode, it works normally.
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Old 14th April 2021, 13:43   #61417  |  Link
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some progress at least.
there are more ways to avoid the windows DWM this was just the easiest i know.

you could add the issue with wrongly rendered overlay to the bug tracker.: http://bugs.madshi.net/my_view_page.php

but for your problem try next FSE(fullscreen exclusive) i would start with d3d9 and than i would try a compatibility trick to get the old FSE back. for windowed playback there is only overlay rendering which can workaround issue with the DWM.

the windows DWM issue can be very hard to fix so i prefered to just workaround them.
there are simple things it can't do like 2 different refreshrate at the same time for now.
but sometimes it is still working good enough so it doesn't get noticed so a windows update or new GPU driver can help or make it even worse.
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Old 14th April 2021, 14:10   #61418  |  Link
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What GPU and driver is this? NVIDIA says that since 461.09 they (finally) support "Multi-Plane Overlays" that can help with these situations (OS can now give apps their own plane with their own refresh rate in windowed mode instead of having only one owned by the DWM) : https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answ...ail/a_id/5159/ but it's only supported in Turing and later.
My very old Radeon and my 1050 Ti don't support that (DxDiag shows it when you Save All Information to a .txt under "MPO MaxPlanes".
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Old 14th April 2021, 14:15   #61419  |  Link
NDUS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
some progress at least.
there are more ways to avoid the windows DWM this was just the easiest i know.

you could add the issue with wrongly rendered overlay to the bug tracker.: http://bugs.madshi.net/my_view_page.php

but for your problem try next FSE(fullscreen exclusive) i would start with d3d9 and than i would try a compatibility trick to get the old FSE back. for windowed playback there is only overlay rendering which can workaround issue with the DWM.

the windows DWM issue can be very hard to fix so i prefered to just workaround them.
there are simple things it can't do like 2 different refreshrate at the same time for now.
but sometimes it is still working good enough so it doesn't get noticed so a windows update or new GPU driver can help or make it even worse.
I tried your suggestions - the last one worked (setting "Disable Full Screen Optimization" in compatibility settings for MPC-HC.) Sucks that it's the only solution, but oh well. Thanks for the help, at least it's working.

I never anticipated these kinds of problems would exist with a two-monitor setup, lol. It seems like mixed refresh rate monitors is something that a Microsoft engineer would have tried at some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
(...) but it's only supported in Turing and later.
Ah - I have a 1070. Yet another reason to join the rat race for a GPU!

Last edited by NDUS; 14th April 2021 at 14:18.
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Old 15th April 2021, 09:32   #61420  |  Link
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How do I make the mouse cursor visible in fullscreen exclusive mode (MPC-HC)?
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Last edited by GCRaistlin; 15th April 2021 at 12:09.
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