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Old 27th November 2016, 21:20   #40801  |  Link
Backflash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight77 View Post
In one of the first image comparison posted I could really see the difference: the image was too soft. As noticed by Growdelan in the lips and eyes part was quite clear. So SE really makes images so soft?

Not related question: how many ms are good for rendering time and present time ?
Well, NGU makes things way too sharp for 1080 doubling. For 720 I don't think NGU needs SE. Taste option.

any ms that doesn't have dropped frames and you do not feel any jitter
for me it's anything under 35ms
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Old 27th November 2016, 21:37   #40802  |  Link
JarrettH
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Edit: meant to ask in MPC thread

Last edited by JarrettH; 28th November 2016 at 02:15.
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Old 27th November 2016, 23:35   #40803  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cork_OS View Post
Since NGU doesn't benefit from SuperRes, is possible/useful to apply SuperRes only to the last upscale step (Jinc/C-R etc.), after NGU?
Might make sense right now, but probably won't make sense in the future, because in the future NGU will probably be able to directly upscale by 3x or even 4x. So there might not be a "last upscale step", anymore, but when using NGU, the last step might always be a downscaling step instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotik View Post
Here is a small sample, notice how the 3D effects of the movie cut through the 3D subtitles, this is happening during the whole movie and it doesn't matter whether I use xySubFilter or the MPC-HC internal sub engine.

Sample was done using latest MakeMKV and then splitting it with latest MKVToolNIX.
Thanks, will have a look at this when I find some time. Not sure when that will be, though.

Might make sense to add a bug entry to the madVR bug tracker, just to be safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uoppi View Post
Does "NGU = Jinc" etc. in the OSD mean madvr is reverting to Jinc instead of using NGU (for whatever reason)?
Not enough information. Can't say anything unless I see a screenshot of the OSD, or at least the full scaling related text lines from the OSD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper93 View Post
Have you noticed high CPU usage when using NGU? https://i.imgbox.com/CNYlkAXK.png I have i7 5820K so it is ~88% of thread power so not much left here.
Somewhat strange. You're not using the "ShowRenderSteps" empty file hack, are you? Do you use custom flush settings?

And this problem only occurs when using NGU?

Quote:
Originally Posted by austonrush View Post
Here are 4 samples. I've found adding grain to SD content really helps remove the proccessed look. I'm using level 2 in these images.

I'm also NOT using smoothen edges for SD content it is not required. It is required for HD...

Which one looks best to you? I should mention I'm getting a much better render performance with ngu low versus nnedi3 128 with SR3
Don't see too much of a difference, to be honest. These images are really small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burfadel View Post
Is that workaround still present?
Yes, and it's impossible that it hurts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theDongerr View Post
My eyes are pretty sensitive to motion judder. Mind you, my projector does 23.976 fps and I am able to playback my content at the proper FPS (i believe it is correct anyway) with 0% clock deviation from player to display. However, my white-whale exists as a video signal that looks like film with the motion smoothness of 60hz/120hz but without that fake-plasticky-SOE. My projector, even at the lowest CMD (clear motion-drive) setting, looks like a mexican soap opera. Even with an Oppo 103D blu-ray player, I still experience the same (if not more) judder than when playing movies from my HTPC -- therefore I sold it.
So you don't like the normal 23.976fps judder, and you don't like the JVC motion smoother, either? That's a problem. I suppose there might be motion smoothers which are better than what the JVC does. But I'm not sure if it's possible to make motion smoother without getting the soap opera look.

I suppose you could try to play with SVP or BlueSky to see if they produce something you like better. SVP has a ton of settings, maybe one of them does what you need?

Or maybe what you need is a selective motion smoother which only smooths camera pans/zooms, but nothing else? I'm not sure if such a thing exists, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leo91531 View Post
test @GTX1080 & RX480

I think NGU is like NNEDI3+SR ,but NGU rendering time is less than NNEDI3+SR
Good comparison, I like that you're not using chroma doubling. It shows that you know what you're doing...
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Old 27th November 2016, 23:52   #40804  |  Link
madshi
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For those of you interested in FreeSync/G-SYNC:

I've changed the 2nd post of this thread to a FAQ. The first FAQ is now the FreeSync/G-SYNC topic.
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Old 27th November 2016, 23:53   #40805  |  Link
Warner306
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Nevermind, everything has changed. Will report back after testing.

Last edited by Warner306; 28th November 2016 at 00:24.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:06   #40806  |  Link
madshi
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madVR v0.91.2 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* renamed NGU quality levels: Low -> Med, Med -> High, High -> VeryHigh
* added a new even faster NGU "Low" variant
* reworked chroma/image up/downscaling/doubling settings pages
* removed NEDI and super-xbr image doubling algorithms
* small speed improvement for NGU-Med (former NGU-Low)
* small quality improvement for NGU-Med/High (former NGU-Low/Med)
* settings dialog warns when SuperRes and NGU are enabled at the same time
* pixel shader database is compressed now to save space
I've changed the whole scaling settings logic to make things easier to understand, and to protect "normal" users from chosing bad configurations. I'm not sure if the power users will like the changes or not. Please give it a try and let me know what you think. I'm willing to consider alternatives/changes/extensions. But it's important that "normal" users are guided by the settings dialog in such a way that they choose good settings.

I've dropped super-xbr for image doubling because the new "NGU-Low" is now faster (at least for me) than super-xbr, even without SuperRes. So the only 2 remaining resolution doublers are now NGU and NNEDI3. FYI, when doing an exact 2x upscale, NGU-Low is now also faster than JincAR (without SuperRes)!

super-xbr is still available for chroma upscaling, though.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:27   #40807  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Might make sense right now, but probably won't make sense in the future, because in the future NGU will probably be able to directly upscale by 3x or even 4x. So there might not be a "last upscale step", anymore, but when using NGU, the last step might always be a downscaling step instead.
sorry i don't see that working for DVDs.

edit: and very common 4/3 AR 16/9 broadcast shouldn't work too.

Last edited by huhn; 28th November 2016 at 00:29.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:27   #40808  |  Link
pose
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madshi, what NNEDI3 value NGU med supposed to compete with quality and performance wise?

Last edited by pose; 28th November 2016 at 00:32.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:32   #40809  |  Link
huhn
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it was
NGU very high below nnedi3 64
NGU high below nnedi3 32
NGU mid below nnedi 16

doesn't count for polaris GPUs.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:33   #40810  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.91.2 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* renamed NGU quality levels: Low -> Med, Med -> High, High -> VeryHigh
* added a new even faster NGU "Low" variant
* reworked chroma/image up/downscaling/doubling settings pages
* removed NEDI and super-xbr image doubling algorithms
* small speed improvement for NGU-Med (former NGU-Low)
* small quality improvement for NGU-Med/High (former NGU-Low/Med)
* settings dialog warns when SuperRes and NGU are enabled at the same time
* pixel shader database is compressed now to save space
I've changed the whole scaling settings logic to make things easier to understand, and to protect "normal" users from chosing bad configurations. I'm not sure if the power users will like the changes or not. Please give it a try and let me know what you think. I'm willing to consider alternatives/changes/extensions. But it's important that "normal" users are guided by the settings dialog in such a way that they choose good settings.

I've dropped super-xbr for image doubling because the new "NGU-Low" is now faster (at least for me) than super-xbr, even without SuperRes. So the only 2 remaining resolution doublers are now NGU and NNEDI3. FYI, when doing an exact 2x upscale, NGU-Low is now also faster than JincAR (without SuperRes)!

super-xbr is still available for chroma upscaling, though.
On first glance, it is much easier to understand. Thumbs up!

The only problem is that it makes a mess of my setup guide. Oh well, no big deal...

Last edited by Warner306; 28th November 2016 at 00:35.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:38   #40811  |  Link
Fullmetal Encoder
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Instead of all the mess you would potentially be dealing with in trying to use FreeSync/G-SYNC with madVR couldn't one simply buy a TV/monitor that's designed to produce output at the correct intervals? And maybe if more people asked for and purchased such equipment it would become more commonly available. I have been thinking for some time of getting an Eizo monitor for playback with full 24p etc. capability. It's true some of their sets are very highly priced but they usually have a cheaper version available with almost exactly the same functionalities. Has anyone out there tried such an Eizo for playback with madVR?
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:39   #40812  |  Link
Skwelcha
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Can't use NEEDI3 anymore, was working before on 0.91.1.

http://www.xup.in/dl,10753597/madVR_-_log.txt/
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:42   #40813  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullmetal Encoder View Post
Instead of all the mess you would potentially be dealing with in trying to use FreeSync/G-SYNC with madVR couldn't one simply buy a TV/monitor that's designed to produce output at the correct intervals?
TVs typically already support all relevant modes for video, at least in Europe. US TVs often lack a 50Hz mode for reasons, in case you watch PAL content.

For monitors, 24p modes may be missing, but on higher-end screens you can instead get 120Hz, which is equally good, if not better.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:47   #40814  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
sorry i don't see that working for DVDs.

edit: and very common 4/3 AR 16/9 broadcast shouldn't work too.
Why? NGU could upscale 8x, then downscale to the target resolution. Just an example, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
The only problem is that it makes a mess of my setup guide.
Haha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skwelcha View Post
Can't use NEEDI3 anymore, was working before on 0.91.1.
What does "Can't use" mean exactly? Maybe make a screenshot of the OSD (Ctrl+J) and a screenshot of your image upscaling settings page.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:49   #40815  |  Link
Knight77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
Is sanear in the nightlies 0.3? (08/2015)

Haven't done much testing, but I noticed exclusive mode seems to be working better than in previous versions (that or some MPC-HC change since July nightly).
Which nightlies? These?
https://github.com/alexmarsev/sanear/releases

Has Sanear been updated? Seen that link looks like there are no new releases since 2015...
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:53   #40816  |  Link
Skwelcha
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As soon as it tries to upscale it just hangs with the following message:



http://www.pic-upload.de/view-32195293/1.png.html
http://www.pic-upload.de/view-321952...age02.png.html
Downscale s on Biubic100 LL AR Relaxed, Chroma is Biubic150 AR, no upscale refinement.
Sry for the vague post, thought the log was sufficent.
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Last edited by Skwelcha; 28th November 2016 at 00:59.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:59   #40817  |  Link
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@madshi
I think it was a good idea to combine doubling and upscaling together. it seems way less ambigious for the standard user to have only one tab for this. but could you explain to us what the logic is behind the NGU options "chroma/downscale quality: automatic" and "activate only if it's useful"? this is some information the power user probably wanna know, me included.

ps: I think there is a display oversight with the OSD. when choosing NGU (very high) the OSD says "chroma > NGU-high" instead of "chroma > NGU-veryHigh" like it does with luma.

Last edited by Sp00kyFox; 28th November 2016 at 01:17.
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Old 28th November 2016, 01:30   #40818  |  Link
JarrettH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp00kyFox View Post
@madshi
I think it was a good idea to combine doubling and upscaling together. it seems way less ambigious for the standard user to have only one tab for this. but could you explain to us what the logic is behind the NGU options "chroma/downscale quality: automatic" and "activate only if it's useful"? this is some information the power user probably wanna know, me included.

ps: I think there is a display oversight with the OSD. when choosing NGU (very high) the OSD says "chroma > NGU-high" instead of "chroma > NGU-veryHigh" like it does with luma.
Also noticed that chroma quality is unselectable at low, medium settings - probably because that shouldn't be a selection then.

Question:

chroma > super-xbr
luma > ngu-med < bicubic150ar
chroma > bicubic60ar

What is bicubic60ar for? As a doubler?

Last edited by JarrettH; 28th November 2016 at 03:09.
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Old 28th November 2016, 01:31   #40819  |  Link
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With the latest version, there's error when trying to enter full-screen mode, and using NNEDI3 neurons as image doubler.
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Old 28th November 2016, 01:40   #40820  |  Link
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Sorry but NGU doesn't hold a candle to XBR-75 for image doubling. At least with the material I'm upscaling, which is generally medium-high quality SD, NGU on various settings (tried low and high) gives me way more artifacts and obvious artificial sharpening. I'd like to suggest adding Super-XBR back, it's a great image doubler.

Last edited by Schwartz; 28th November 2016 at 01:54.
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