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Old 7th June 2015, 16:04   #30821  |  Link
lanzorg
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Why not implementing madvr preset selector with predifined profiles by gpu performance?
A combobox selector with these for example:
- madVR Low
- madVR Medium
- madVR High
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Old 7th June 2015, 16:53   #30822  |  Link
michkrol
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The possibility of implementing presets was discussed some (rather long) time ago and it's not as easy to realise as it sounds.

My understanding of the matter is as follows:
First of all, some (most?) settings are based purely on user preference.
Second, to get most of your GPU, you should make profiles for different source resolutions and frame rates, which can make a really long list.
Third, your performance depends greatly also on target (screen) resolution.
Fourth, to get the most of madVR, your settings should depend on the type of your content (cartoons/anime/live-action/sports/...) and it's quality (old VHS rips/TV/DVD/BluRay/...).
Fifth, you need to take into account that NNEDI (or rather OpenCL) performs horribly on some overall fast GPUs, because of driver's bugs or old architecture.
The list goes on.

To sum up, you can't make presets that work for everyone on every hardware with every content.
To get even close, you'd need lots of work and users would still use their own, custom settings.

That said, there are lots of madVR setting guides (good and bad ones) on the web and the default settings are a good starting point for your own setup.
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Old 7th June 2015, 17:02   #30823  |  Link
baii
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I find that blocks is much more apparent when video is paused. When the video plays, blocks become less of a concern.
I prefer nnedi3 over jinc+refinement for large scale factor.
@mysteryx can you also try compare say nnedi3 32/64 for that frame?

Sent from my 306SH
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Old 7th June 2015, 19:22   #30824  |  Link
MysteryX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baii View Post
I find that blocks is much more apparent when video is paused. When the video plays, blocks become less of a concern.
I prefer nnedi3 over jinc+refinement for large scale factor.
@mysteryx can you also try compare say nnedi3 32/64 for that frame?

Sent from my 306SH
NNEDI3 doesn't work on my computer, but I did pre-process and re-encode these videos with an AviSynth script and it looks MUCH better. I'd love to add SuperRes to that AviSynth re-encoding chain but it's not currently possible.

Here's a 288p VCD video
https://mega.co.nz/#!eYIBVT7B!SEPfYY...G5bzkGa7DMEMbQ

In comparison, here's the 720p re-encoded version with Denoise + EEDI3 + NNEDI3 + Sharpen
https://mega.co.nz/#!6EhU2ArI!GyIjNk...iMU6Jl_KCkOTTE

Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 07:05.
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Old 7th June 2015, 20:04   #30825  |  Link
JackCY
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Before I can post a v0.88.11 is released and Shiandow deband is removed?
It's useful, it's stronger than high settings of the artifact removal and Shiandow works sort of as clear skin, removing as much or as little as you want of the harshness from images.

The High preset does this a little but only a little, which is fine as otherwise it would be too aggressive.
But for SD video which is often a piece of crap quality the Shiandow 1.00/0.01 + grain is pretty good.
Upscaling with SuperRes refinement is good and using cheap upscale algorithms doesn't really change the quality much compared to when SR is disabled.

NNEDI3, sure can be rather performance hungry but nothing a 280x can't handle. Except that I want to keep the GPU quiet and NNEDI3 tends to load it too much, nonetheless NNEDI3_16+SR works well for upscaling SD, even cartoons.
Using NNEDI3 is pretty much pointless now when there is SR, NNEDI3 only seems to make the image better (pixel peeping) when upscale is 2x or more, mostly cartoons and hard lines.
NEDI seems to offer no improvement at all compared to Jinc3+AR.

SR refine done only once after upscaling is fine, settings can be tuned to your desire in strength and profiles.
BUT please make the step of the upscaling refinements 0.1 instead of 0.01 or let us type the numbers in instead of having 2 buttons with 0.01 increments Even holding them takes forever to get from 0.00 to 1.00. The difference with 0.01 steps is non perceptible.

For me, MPCHC + madVR tends to get stuck when closing MPCHC sometimes, doesn't matter what version of MPCHC or madVR. Simply hangs there and has to be killed.

What I would like to see in madVR is a deblocking filter, although I don't need it, and the Shiandow or similar filter that works similar to clear skin, polishing/smoothing the harsh textures of low res when upscaled.

SR is nice even though I hate sharpen and this is practically a sort of smart sharpen. There sure are crazy better SR but then those most likely wouldn't run in real time.

Last edited by JackCY; 7th June 2015 at 20:06.
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Old 7th June 2015, 21:05   #30826  |  Link
MysteryX
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Yeah, NEDI doubling... I'm not seeing any advantage over Jinc+AR

Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 07:05.
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Old 7th June 2015, 21:30   #30827  |  Link
6233638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
Before I can post a v0.88.11 is released and Shiandow deband is removed?
It's useful, it's stronger than high settings of the artifact removal and Shiandow works sort of as clear skin, removing as much or as little as you want of the harshness from images.

The High preset does this a little but only a little, which is fine as otherwise it would be too aggressive.
But for SD video which is often a piece of crap quality the Shiandow 1.00/0.01 + grain is pretty good.
I only just had the opportunity to start doing some testing today (only had the time spare to even watch one film this whole month) and my initial thoughts are similar to yours.

Madshi's debanding seems very good at low levels, but Shiandow's seems to look more natural at high levels of debanding - especially with the "add grain" option enabled. At higher strengths, Madshi's debanding can start to look artificial.
Though Shiandow's debanding may lose more detail (I need to spend more time tweaking to see whether that is actually the case) it looks natural when that happens - with filmed footage at least. I haven't tested any animated content - where Madshi's deband may still fare better.
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Old 7th June 2015, 22:00   #30828  |  Link
ikarad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
You are absolutely WRONG about everything.

I have a Dell U2410 which is 8bit+FRC and it can receive 10bit signal easily, in fact it is what I use now in Windows 7 by default.
I can select between 8 or 10bit in nvidia control panel, I use DisplayPort.
I can't find where selecting 8bit or 10 bit in nvidia control panel. Can you help me?
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Old 7th June 2015, 22:02   #30829  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
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I don't have the option either (GeForce driver version 353.06). I think the monitor has to advertise that it supports 10-bit input, otherwise the driver just won't list 10-bit output as an option.
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Old 7th June 2015, 22:06   #30830  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikarad View Post
Thans but Do you know where this option is finding in nvidia control panel? It's for the future when I change my display
Its in Display -> Change Resolution, on the bottom of the page
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Old 7th June 2015, 22:08   #30831  |  Link
ikarad
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Its in Display -> Change Resolution, on the bottom of the page
Thanks.

I have nothing in the bottom of this page
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Old 7th June 2015, 22:09   #30832  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by ikarad View Post
I have nothing in the bottom of this page
You need a very recent driver, 352.86 at least, AFAIK.
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Old 7th June 2015, 22:10   #30833  |  Link
ikarad
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
You need a very recent driver, 352.xx at least, AFAIK.
I have the last 353.xx
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Old 7th June 2015, 22:18   #30834  |  Link
edigee
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Originally Posted by ikarad View Post
Thanks.

I have nothing in the bottom of this page
That option (8bit/12bit, limited/full)only works with HDMI or Display Port connection. Not with DVI.

Last edited by edigee; 7th June 2015 at 22:22.
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Old 7th June 2015, 22:22   #30835  |  Link
huhn
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not really.
looks like wrong driver to me.

http://abload.de/img/windows108rrmf.png
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Old 7th June 2015, 22:30   #30836  |  Link
ikarad
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
not really.
looks like wrong driver to me.

http://abload.de/img/windows108rrmf.png
What is your driver?

I have the last driver 353.06

I have win7 64. Maybe it's only avalilable on win8.

Last edited by ikarad; 7th June 2015 at 22:33.
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Old 7th June 2015, 22:33   #30837  |  Link
huhn
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352.84
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Old 7th June 2015, 22:34   #30838  |  Link
JackCY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Madshi's debanding seems very good at low levels,
I've toned my preset down to medium for HQ content after seeing the high removing "a lot" of detail on LQ content.

Quote:
but Shiandow's seems to look more natural at high levels of debanding - especially with the "add grain" option enabled. At higher strengths, Madshi's debanding can start to look artificial.
For me Madshi's is more selective, as in it better preserves edged detail, more accurately I should say rough detail.
Where as Shiandow's blurs out more and ignores preservation of edges/rough detail. As in it removes more more easily, which is fine for LQ content where it softens the rough detail on gradients/textures.

Quote:
Though Shiandow's debanding may lose more detail (I need to spend more time tweaking to see whether that is actually the case) it looks natural when that happens - with filmed footage at least. I haven't tested any animated content - where Madshi's deband may still fare better.
Yeah Madshi's is more selective where it gets applied where as Shiandow's seems to get applied everywhere no matter how strong effect you set.

I use Madshi High + Shiandow 1.00/0.01+grain for LQ content (SD, DVD, ...).
480p preset:
Code:
if (deintFps > 31) or (srcWidth > 2100) or (srcHeight > 1200) "2160p"
else if (srcWidth > 1400) or (srcHeight >  800) "1080p"
else if (srcWidth >  800) or (srcHeight >  600)  "720p"
else                                             "480p"
I couldn't figure out a way to make the decisions based on area due to missing arithmetic, but if someone knows how let me know.

Shiandow 1.00/1.00 removes maximum but starts to also remove useful detail with large radius like facial features, so having the margin minimum ensures the removal is done only at small radius, at least that's how I see it.




Don't know why such a useful post-processing is suddenly removed soon after it was added.
I'm keeping v0.88.10 for sure.

As you can see above, Madshi's does pretty much nothing on rough LQ content even at High, but Shiandow serves nicely to "wash" the image, which true removes a bit of contrast but the rough detail is reduced as much as you like. As long as margin is minimal it's not that crazy with altering features of faces and objects.

Last edited by JackCY; 7th June 2015 at 22:42.
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Old 7th June 2015, 22:38   #30839  |  Link
ikarad
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
352.84
Maybe in 353.06 this option is not available.
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Old 7th June 2015, 22:51   #30840  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
SR is nice even though I hate sharpen and this is practically a sort of smart sharpen. There sure are crazy better SR but then those most likely wouldn't run in real time.
Totally, I hate sharpening filters but the right SR setttings allow for a pretty much perfect finetuning based on the mVR scaling algos you picked, personal taste, viewing distance etc etc.

NEDI is also nice enough to take care of chroma while it's at it so we got winning combos here IMHO. I haven't truly experimented with SR on chroma yet, though but last time I tried I didn't seem to like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
1) In my tests medium "error upscaling quality" was quite a bit faster than high, while producing almost the same quality. Do you agree? Can I drop the "high" setting and simply always use "medium"?
I can't see any reason to justify the SR "high" settting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
3) Which combination of settings do you like most? SuperRes alone? Or in combination with FineSharp and/or LumaSharpen? Or maybe just FineSharp?
NEDI > SR > CR AR LL, it's sharper than J3AR alone and it doesn't come with the EE inherent to NNEDI3(as clearly visible in that sample I previously provided). I still use NNEDI3+SR for tiny videos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
4) Does using the upscaling refinement options change your preferred upscaling/doubling algorithm? Which did you prefer without upscaling refinement? Which do you prefer with upscaling refinement?
Not really, J3AR is the best upscaler(GIGO principle at work) and CC AR LL the best downscaler so why worry? I guess a softer downscaler might be worth looking into later, no big hurry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
5) Which SuperRes parameters do you like?
I currently really like the "non-double defaults" with a sharpness of 28, 29 being too sharp and 27 too soft. I tried to increase the number of passes to 4 but didn't see much improvement, OTOH 2 didn't look nearly as good. I haven't run extensive tests with the other SR settings, hopefully they won't be disappearing anytime soon

Quote:
6) For experts: When upscaling with a large factor, which results in more than just one refinement pass (see debug OSD), do you prefer to refine the image after every ~2x upscaling step? Or do you prefer to refine the image only once after upscaling is complete? Of course when refining the image after every ~2x upscaling step, you should lower the values/passes to make the overall refinement strength more similar to refining only once.
Refining after every 2X step makes as much sense from a theoritical POV as it does IRL to my eyes. PQ is pretty ridiculous tbh

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
7) For experts: Considering my goal (see above) to find a setting which works for every upscaling factor to maintain the sharpness of the original goal, which exact upscaling algorithm and which upscaling refinement options do you like? I'm hoping to end up with just a low/medium/high setting, where high would maintain the exact source sharpness, and where medium and low would be toned down settings do apply less strong sharpening. Low should provide a small but noticeable sharpness boost (compared to no refinement at all). Medium should be in the middle between Low and High.
I rest my case that the SR settings will depend on a zillion factors such as the display internal processing/dithering(fighting against mVR's), anti-glare layer graininess, personal taste, viewing distance and so on.....I don't see how you could find one-size-fits-all low/med/high settings to this IMHO.

Some ppl will be using J3AR/CC AR LL coz they can, others will go cheaper and will need to increase sharpness afterwards. It makes no sense to me to be forced to enable a sharpening filter when you got the SR sharpness knob......if you somehow manage to make up your mind on presets, please also allow us to input our own settings be it via registry, a folder in mVR's folders or just a simple "expert settings" box.

I would also like to try SR on 1080p if any possible? I like how it sharpens motion blur. It would be great if it wasn't tied to upscaling IMHO as it mostly acts as a "deshaker" if I got it right?

Last edited by leeperry; 8th June 2015 at 04:21.
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