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27th April 2014, 19:20 | #26247 | Link |
QB the Slayer
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So you guys want to take up GPU resources to do something that is not really the job of a renderer. Interesting concept when we are all trying to squeeze every last drop of GPU performance for the best PQ image scaling.
QB
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27th April 2014, 21:44 | #26249 | Link |
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Smooth Motion is a mathematically exact way to display a frame rate at a different refresh rate while frame interpolation is trying to guess what a middle frame might have looked like and cannot be done without artifacts (in the near future at least). There is no "correct" way to do the interpolation and lots of situations where the best course is simply not to attempt an interpolation. This is a very complex problem with no right answer, a much bigger development effort, and no way to reach near perfection so I can see why madshi would not implement or would wait to implement something.
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27th April 2014, 22:10 | #26250 | Link |
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smooth motion blends frames occasionally, in case the video framerate isn't a multiple of the display refresh rate to avoid sudden jumps and skips.
frame interpolation (check out SVP if you wanna test it) analyses the difference between two frames and "guesses" the step inbetween (often taking multiple frames before and after into account). While this works remarkably well for stills and simple panning shots, anything fast moving (action scenes, etc.) and transforming will cause major artifacts unfortunately. Also, its pretty tough to calculate, so dont expect this to work properly on a laptop or something! most smart TVs (imo smart means dumb, because they suck big time!) have such a feature built in with some ways to tune it (be it on/off or degree of interpolation). |
27th April 2014, 23:07 | #26251 | Link |
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There is also a fundamental difference in that the goal of Smooth Motion is to get closer to the way the content is supposed to look (native frame rate). It's much harder however to advocate motion interpolation because it tends to impose a "soap opera" look on everything, which arguably violates the artist's intent. Therefore it is a highly controversial feature and not at all an obvious "next step" or improvement. The real solution is to fix the source (i.e. HFR, high frame rate material) so that the artist can do whatever he wants, but that's still a long ways out it seems.
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27th April 2014, 23:18 | #26252 | Link |
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Could you describe what this means? I don't tend to watch soap operas so I can't really picture it.
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27th April 2014, 23:30 | #26254 | Link |
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Have you seen the Hobbit moves at 48 fps? That's what it looks like, though those movies were shot at 48fps (double of standard cinema frame rate of 24 fps or 23.976) and thus everything looks very smooth and and fluid. So those movies don't have any artificial frames inserted which can cause artifacts.
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27th April 2014, 23:31 | #26255 | Link | |
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Quote:
For the (very) rare movies that are originally shot a high frame rate (such as hobbit HFR) this is fine since that's what the artist intended. Last edited by e-t172; 27th April 2014 at 23:37. |
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27th April 2014, 23:42 | #26256 | Link |
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Actually there is quite a visible difference between movies shot at higher frame rates and movies interpolated to higher framerates. You can't properly undo the motion blur applied to the 24 fps movies, so you'll never get the sharp and fluid look of a true high-fps movie, it'll always be blurrier.
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28th April 2014, 00:10 | #26257 | Link | |
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Quote:
I'm a big fan of 60 fps for sporting events, but that's true 60 fps and not frame interpolation. |
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28th April 2014, 00:15 | #26258 | Link |
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Thanks for the answers guys I don't know how sensitive I am to this, although the 8 fps hand drawn Studio Ghibli stuff is really uncomfortable to watch for me (I understand the tradeoff, but it hurts my eyes).
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28th April 2014, 00:29 | #26259 | Link |
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I have a camcorder that shoots AVC in 1920x0180/50p (28Mbps) and it is great. No Interlacing issues, smooth panning and all very natural. I would prefer to have HFR over 4K for commercial content as on most screen sizes you can not visually resolve the higher res but the HFR is easily noticed.
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28th April 2014, 00:52 | #26260 | Link |
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Disagree. 50/60 fps looks much more realistic than 24/25 fps, but that's the whole point. The "film look" (low fps) is the one that's unnatural and unrealistic, which is why it's so jarring to see films at 48 fps, for example. Just need to get used to it really.
There's plenty of 50/60 fps content out there but interpolated stuff will never look as good obviously.
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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