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Old 15th August 2014, 09:46   #21  |  Link
r0lZ
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Hum, strange. I can't see any bug in my code in that section.
What is the 3DBD you are trying to convert? And have you selected at least a subtitle stream to mux or to hardcode?
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Old 16th August 2014, 09:08   #22  |  Link
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The error message comes from Extract 3D-planes from MVC.
If the MVC is not original, tsMuxer3D showes zerro planes, and there are subs muxed in. Starting Extract 3D-planes will break and show this error message.

I think the issue comes when you want to extract 3d-planes and there is nothing in the MVC stream.
BD3D2MK3D should handle it.

Last edited by frank; 16th August 2014 at 09:11.
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Old 16th August 2014, 09:38   #23  |  Link
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Yes, that was also my conclusion. BD3D2MK3D uses MVCPlanes.exe (by Nico) to extract the 3D-planes from the MVC, and it checks if it returns a non-zero return code when it is launched, but apparently it fails if the exe writes something to stderr. I should have fixed the problem, but I can't easily verify if everything works as expected after the extraction of the planes. Anyway, I will release a new version soon...
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Old 19th August 2014, 15:20   #24  |  Link
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UTF-8 script

I wrote some special characters (german umlauts , , ) in the movie title. Then MBD3D2MK3D built the Avisynth script _ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs as UTF-8 and not as ANSI file. This has the result that the encoding process terminates immediately, the UTF-8 script is not readable.

That should be handled, movie title ist only used for file name and for tags in the muxing stage.

edit

Last edited by frank; 20th August 2014 at 20:37.
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Old 19th August 2014, 16:26   #25  |  Link
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Hum, I'm not sure the problem comes from the UTF-8 encoding. BD3D2MK3D saves the AVS script in UTF-8 anyway, regardless of the presence of accented characters, and it has always worked.
Anyway, I will do some tests. Can you give me the exact title you have used?
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Old 19th August 2014, 22:15   #26  |  Link
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Just finished my test. I have used this title: "test accentu ", and I've put the same string in the Comment field to test the tags.xml file too. Everything went fine. No crash, the directory and file names are correct, as well as the global title (inside the MKV) and the Comment tag.

I think something else has caused the crash. But what? Have you tried again with the same German characters?
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Old 20th August 2014, 08:50   #27  |  Link
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How easy would it be to modify BD3D2MK3D to output a line interlaced field version instead of OU?

I think maybe LG passive TVs are futzing with conversion of OU frames to its native interlaced presentation and softening the image in the process, so I was hoping to be able to create 2D frames containing top left field and bottom right field (or vice versa) of the 3D source, interlaced together so that they could be presented on the TV as-is in 2D mode but get the 3D effect by wearing the glasses. This would mean the least processing of the original source (ie scaling) and hopefully a sharper picture as it would be mapping the fields directly to their corresponding polarising strips without interference.

I do not know the polarizer strip orientations, so it would require options to select whether left or right was top field.
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Old 20th August 2014, 09:02   #28  |  Link
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Hum, that should be possible, but I have to be sure that it works before beginning to implement that option. And since I don't have a passive LG, I can't test myself. I'll try to see what modification of the files generated by BD3D2MK3D are necessary, and I'll let you know. Will you be OK to test them yourself?
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Old 20th August 2014, 09:45   #29  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post
How easy would it be to modify BD3D2MK3D to output a line interlaced field version instead of OU?

I think maybe LG passive TVs are futzing with conversion of OU frames to its native interlaced presentation and softening the image in the process, so I was hoping to be able to create 2D frames containing top left field and bottom right field (or vice versa) of the 3D source, interlaced together so that they could be presented on the TV as-is in 2D mode but get the 3D effect by wearing the glasses. This would mean the least processing of the original source (ie scaling) and hopefully a sharper picture as it would be mapping the fields directly to their corresponding polarising strips without interference.

I do not know the polarizer strip orientations, so it would require options to select whether left or right was top field.
You may want to run some preliminary tests with Stereoscopic Player which can output 3D footage as interlaced. Perhaps there is a trial period, I don't know.
Alternatively you could try the free Bino which has similar options.
I don't know however how the output is presented at the HDMI (PC) interface to the TV.
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Old 20th August 2014, 10:21   #30  |  Link
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@Shark: My PC doesn't have a 3D graphic card, so I suppose that options cannot be used. But thanks anyway.

@IanD:
I have modified the files of a short clip and I think I have something that should work. Can you test the modifications?
Use a short clip to begin (and, optionally, select the UltraFast x264 preset). Use T&B or SBS, that doesn't matter.
When the demux phase is finished, edit the following files.

_ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs:
You should replace the following lines:
Code:
left  = SelectEven(interleaved)
right = SelectOdd(interleaved)

# Build combined Side-by-Side image
StackVertical(...)  (or StackHorizontal)
with this:
Code:
left  = SelectEven(interleaved).SeparateFields().SelectOdd()
right = SelectOdd(interleaved).SeparateFields().SelectEven()

# Build combined Row-interlaced image
Interleave(left, right).Weave()
The code above is for the left view in the top field. To place the right view in the top field, use this:
Code:
left  = SelectEven(interleaved).SeparateFields().SelectEven()
right = SelectOdd(interleaved).SeparateFields().SelectOdd()

# Build combined Row-interlaced image
Interleave(right, left).Weave()
That should work, but I'm not sure. If you see inverted fields, experiment with the words in red above.

You should also modify _ENCODE.CMD and replace the option "--frame-packing 4" (or 3 for SBS) with "--frame-packing 2".

You should also edit the "3D Video stream" section of the _MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt file, like this:
Code:
# 3D video stream

--track-name
0:3D Row interlaced (x264 CRF 22, preset ultrafast, level 4.1)
--stereo-mode
0:7
--aspect-ratio
0:16/9
--default-duration
0:24000/1001p
--default-track
0:yes
01000_mpls.264
The stereo mode 7 is for the left field on top. Use 6 for the right field on top.

When the edits are finished, encode normally, and watch the movie on your TV. Perhaps you'll see some flickering effects (especially with thin horizontal lines, or in the end credits). Please let me know if it's the case. It is perhaps possible to improve the image quality and avoid the flickering with a resize instead of the SeparateFields().SelectOdd/Even() code.

Let me know if it works fine. If your tests are conclusive, I may add that option in the next version...
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Last edited by r0lZ; 20th August 2014 at 10:23.
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Old 20th August 2014, 10:51   #31  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
@Shark: My PC doesn't have a 3D graphic card, so I suppose that options cannot be used.
.....
Hmmm..., I thought that a 3D card is not even needed as the format is "2D interlaced" with field1 = left view and field 2 = right view. But as I mentioned I don't know how the TV is going to deal with it.
But anyway, you have already proposed a modified script for trying.
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Old 20th August 2014, 13:33   #32  |  Link
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You need a graphic card that can synchronize the active glasses, or (but I don't know if that exists) a passive 3D monitor with polarized filters on the scanlines of each field. I don't have that. But it is perhaps possible to use a program that can convert the row interlaced stereoscopic movie to anaglyph. It's perhaps sufficient to verify that the fields are in the correct order. But I don't want to install a program that I don't need just for that, and anyway I will not be sure of the result. After all, IanD has requested that new feature; he can do some tests for me. ;-)
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Old 20th August 2014, 14:41   #33  |  Link
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@IanD:
Quote:
I have modified the files of a short clip and I think I have something that should work. Can you test the modifications?
Use a short clip to begin (and, optionally, select the UltraFast x264 preset). Use T&B or SBS, that doesn't matter.
When the demux phase is finished, edit the following files.
I was going to attempt to do it myself with Avisynth as the process is quite straightforward, however I would need to manually perform the decode process and then the encode process, so I was hoping your program could do it automatically with a few minor modifications. I see that it may be possible to do it through your program.

Unfortunately I don't have a passive 3D TV, but a relative does, however I don't see them very often.

I was mainly looking for a way to create a simple test file that I could use in the future.

I understand what you are saying about the possibility of flickering, but the whole reason for generating an interlaced frame without scaling was to improve sharpness. The T&B I have seen look quite soft compared to SBS, even as 2D presentations, so I think the scaling in the encodes is introducing softness, let alone what the LG is doing to it. I acknowledge the penalty for a sharper image might be inter-line twitter: then again, perhaps the brain can use the right eye view to fill in the gap.

Your interlaced process seems reasonable and I will test it out when I can, but it will probably not be for a while. Thanks for coming up with a solution so quickly.

Maybe someone will have improved the stability and speed of MVC decoding by then.

Last edited by IanD; 20th August 2014 at 14:52.
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Old 20th August 2014, 14:50   #34  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
You may want to run some preliminary tests with Stereoscopic Player which can output 3D footage as interlaced. Perhaps there is a trial period, I don't know.
Alternatively you could try the free Bino which has similar options.
I don't know however how the output is presented at the HDMI (PC) interface to the TV.
That's a definite option as it supports ssif directly and appears to output row interlaced, so no transcoding to mkv first.

However it will be more difficult to test without a passive 3D TV to hand, but thanks for the option.
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Old 20th August 2014, 15:02   #35  |  Link
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If I understand correctly, you want to encode in the interlaced format without knowing if it works with your future TV? I can't modify BD3D2MK3D without knowing for sure if the modification will be useful, for you and others.
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Old 20th August 2014, 17:47   #36  |  Link
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BD3D2MK3D operates according to the standard

I'm an experienced user of polarized 3D. There is absolutly no need for interlaced frame storage! Storage and output are different things.
The HDMI 1.4a spec includes 3D HSBS and HTAB standard, left eye on top.
Modern polarized monitors and LG TVs use circular polarization. You can keep your head diagonally - no ghosts!

I have a very good 23" polarized 3D Monitor - AOC d2367Ph. It has two HDMI 1.4a inputs.
I'm using softwareplayers on notebook. (ISOs, BD folders, no Cinavia crap...)

PowerDVD 3D 10 or newer recognizes the stereo tabs from mkv file and puts the decoded 3D stream (HSBS, HTAB) automatically to HDMI 1.4a without any problems.
Stereoscopic Player can make a line interlaced output from HTAB. The picture is sharper than from PowerDVD but PowerDVD has better (certified) sound decoders.

Last edited by frank; 20th August 2014 at 18:21.
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Old 20th August 2014, 18:04   #37  |  Link
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I agree that storage and output are different things, but if you can store the data exactly the same way than the output will use them, I guess you can have a better quality, because there will be a 1:1 relationship between the medium and the hardware, without any adaptation procedure needed. I don't know if that will make any visible difference, but for the principle, I think that as long as we use a Half-3D packing method, it is better to store the right half at the right position. Or have I missed something?
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Old 20th August 2014, 19:11   #38  |  Link
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If you store the 3D content in another way - then other standard devices cannot play it. (TVs, BD players, Android...).
The 3D content must signal the format to the interface - but HDMI 1.4a is the only 3D standard interface. And HDMI 1.4a doesn't know any interlaced 3D frames, only Frame Packing (movie, games) and SBS/TAB (broadcast).
We don't need new mismatches. Wat is going on if you send such interlaced 3D frames to a 2D device?

Half-Packing was a demand from broadcast because of technical reasons (bandwidth, studio and transmitter devices...)
Hardware decoders work fast and properly, but only for standard content as Frame Packing/SBS/TAB. You don't have to store interlaced 3D frames. In addition interlaced encoding needs more bits, as we know from mpeg (jumping mov vectors.)
The HDMI standard doesn't allow interlaced frame storage. 1080i50 are 50 fields 1920x540 per second, field sequential. If you encode a 3D movie in that way then the player does not signal 3D content! 1080i50 means interlaced footage, standard compliant. NTSC 1080i29 has to apply Pull Down to get the frame rate because movies have 23.976...

Example of non-standard:
Most guys cut off black bars but they have never understood how AVC compression works. Black bars have zero information, not much code needed. But hardware decoders fail at resizing such cuts... Only PCs can play it.

Last edited by frank; 20th August 2014 at 20:19.
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Old 20th August 2014, 19:41   #39  |  Link
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I fully agree with (almost) everything. However, the checkerboard, column interlaced and row interlaced 3D packing methods exist (or have existed). They are perhaps (or probably) obsolete now, but they are still supported. Also, I guess IanD wants to play his movies from a HDD directly connected to the TV, without passing through HDMI, but I'm not sure. (I don't know any TV able to play row interlaced material directly.)

Anyway, I think you're globally right. I will probably not implement the row interlaced packing method, unless someone can prove that it's useful. I have posted the modification to do to the scripts above, and if IanD really wants to encode in row-interlaced, he is free to modify the files manally.

And BTW, thanks for your remark about the black bars. It's exactly for that reasons that I have always refused to add a crop feature to BD3D2MK3D.
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Old 20th August 2014, 20:35   #40  |  Link
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Sorry I've made a mistake: ANSI not ASCII

Quote:
BD3D2MK3D saves the AVS script in UTF-8 anyway, regardless of the presence of accented characters
Sorry, no, it stores normally as ANSI in Windows. Tested with your last beta.
If I open the avs and then select file store as... then the opening windows shows
Codierung: ANSI - code: ANSI
not UTF-8 in the botom line.
The error comes if it is UTF-8 code because Avisynth needs ANSI.

I will repeat the test with special characters.
(The movie was How to Train Your Dragon but I wrote Drachenzhmen)

Last edited by frank; 20th August 2014 at 20:43.
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