CCE FAQ Discussion

If you CHECK "upper field first" in the CCE, it just shift one line up for each frame(or field). That means that the contents of your encoded result is different from your source.

Also the encoded result is alwasy upper field first, whether you check it or not.

So DO NOT CHECK the "upper filed first" or SET "OFFSET" to "0"(Version 2.67) in CCE.

After the encoding ends:
1. For interlace source, process the resulted M2V file with Easy Changer to get "bottom field up";
2. For progressive source, do nothing.

[RB]

Originally posted by Black Hole
So I think the link to CCE CRC Patch (I am NOT talking about a crack) should be inserted again in the FAQ. I didn't have the time myself to test that patch, so I don't know if it cracked the program. I think that an illegal patch wouldn't have been included in the old FAQ itself, would it?

I removed the link for a reason. The CCE license agreement very clearly states:

1. DESCRIPTION OF OTHER RIGHTS AND LIMITATIONS
You may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the SOFTWARE
PRODUCT.

And being a programmer myself, I know that to create a "patch" or whatever that modifies an executable you absolutely need to disassemble it. I know I may sound a little picky here but I'd rather be on the safe side and I leave it to the mods of the other forums how to deal with this.

[Wilbert]

So if you are frameserving interlaced video, use

code:

ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)

to get better chroma upsampling.

However, one possibility to feed YV12 directly into CCE is some external codec that decodes YV12 data for it. This seems to work reliably only with CCE-SP 2.67.00.10 and newer, both DivX and XviD should do the job, as well as the lite version of the ffvfw codec included in the latest AVISynth 2.5 installers.

In that case assumes DivX and XviD progressive input. So, if you let them do the YV12->YUY2 conversion they will mess up the chroma (if the source is interlaced).

[RB]

Thanks Wilbert. Hmm, I should really update the FAQ in various places... after all AVISynth 2.5 is no longer beta and not officially released

[RB]

I made some updates to the CCE FAQ, especially concerning ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true/false).

[Logiqx]

I have just upgraded my CCE Basic to v2.69.01.10 and noticed a change that relates to questions 10 and 11 of the FAQ. I don't know exactly when this was implemented though as I can't see it in the release notes.

An 'Output top field first stream' option has been added to the advanced settings and is in addition to the 'Offset line' that is already discussed in Q10+Q11 of the FAQ.

The FAQ currently states:

First, you have to know that CCE (SP as well as Basic) always outputs video that is flagged "top field first" (there is a flag in the MPEG header that tells the player which field of the decoded frame to display first on a TV screen). There is no way in CCE to change this. According to Custom Technology, this is not a bug but a feature of CCE...

The new option now allows you to decide whether you want top field first or bottom field first flagged in your output. If you encode unaltered DV (i.e. BFF) then you can leave the 'Output top field first stream' option unticked and use an offset line of 0. This results in your footage being left as BFF.

Of course, you can still use the old methods to change the DV footage to TFF:

- Set the offset line to 1 and tick the 'Output top field first stream' option.

or

- Use the DoubleWave.SelectOdd trick in AviSynth plus an offset line of 0 and the 'Output top field first stream' option ticked.

However, we now have the choice of leaving our footage BFF if we wish and that's proably what I'll do from now on. IIRC, I only changed my footage to TFF (using the DoubleWeave.SelectOdd method) for the benefit of CCE because it insisted on setting the TFF flag. I never was keen on having something alter the MPEG afterwards to try to retain BFF (e.g. ReStream).

Logiqx

[Volred]

A quick question from a real noob regarding this CCE mpeg1/2:

- What container does it go into? .avi? .mpeg? .wmv?

[lgcbmb]

I was the original poster of the FAQ. Its great to see people ran with it

[klipsil]

Hi,
i have been using DGIndex/DGdecode with the VFAPI plugin frameserving into CCE SP 2.70 .
i cant really figure out reading through the forum if i must enable ConvertYUY2 in the avs script.
currently i am not .
my source is an interlaced NTSC material and in dgindex i use Tv scale whereases in cce i use luminance 0-255 and streaming through STB it look good on a TV screen.
using luminance 16-235 in CCE shows a too bright output.
so i cant figure it out do i need to add the convertYUY2 in the avs script or not.
Thanks.

[harshi]

Originally Posted by tonyzhankaiyu

Quote start:
Q7: if the interlaced material is "bff" (bottom field first) like most DV camera footage is, check "Upper Field First" in Video settings (CCE-SP 2.50/CCE-SP 2.66), set "Offset Line" to 1 (CCE-SP 2.67/CCE-Basic). If you are encoding progressive or tff interlaced material, always deactivate "Upper Field First"/set "Offset Line" to 0. We'll talk more about this in Q10.

Q10: Always uncheck "Upper Field First" unless your video is interlaced AND bottom field first. Progressive material is always top field first.

Q10: Uncheck "Upper Field First" and encode bff video directly. Then use ReStream to clear the top field first flag in the MPV file CCE generated. Load the MPV into ReStream, uncheck "top field first" and click "Write!".

Q11: Always set "Offset Line" to 0 unless your video is interlaced AND bottom field first in which case you set it to 1. Progressive material is always top field first.

Quote end.

RB,
Above quote from your CCE FAQ. For interlaced source I have different points from yours.
I personally uncheck "Upper field First" (2.66) and set "Offset Line" to 0 (2.67) for my DV AVI(interlaced, Bottom field first). After encode it to M2V, I use Changer.exe(Free, by Darim Vision co.) to replace tff with bff. Changer.exe just change the M2V not write a new file to save lots of disk space.

I am a PAL user, I did few test to prove it: use BMP with only one pixel-high line at the top to create a MS DV AVI, let CCE SP encode it with different tff setting. I got above conclusion.

Would you please re-confirm this setting?

tonyzhankaiyu

Would you please give me some explaination on Q 11. Coz I am really interested in it.

[mp3dom]

In CCE 2.50/2.66 the option "Upper Field First" is used to 'revert the current field dominance'. So if you have a TFF you would uncheck that option to preserve the Top field dominance. For DV sources (they are generally Bottom Field) you would check the "Upper field first" option to change the field dominance to TFF.

Starting from CCE 2.67/2.70/SP2 there are 2 parameters: 'Output Top Field First' and 'Offset Line'. The first parameter is used to set the field dominance of the output stream. This flags the output mpeg stream and tells how to reproduce it. The Offset Line tells the encoder the field of the source stream. If the value is 0, then it keeps the current field dominance of the source. If the Offset value is 1 it will switch the field dominance of the source.
If your source is TFF:
- Check "Output Top Field First" and set Offset to 0 (for a TFF output)
- Uncheck "Output Top Field First" and set Offset to 1 (for a BFF output)
If your source is BFF:
- Uncheck "Output Top Field First" and set Offset to 0 (for a BFF output)
- Check "Output Top Field First" and set Offset to 1 (for a TFF output)

[Butcher Wing]

Hi,

I hope someone can advise me on this...

I have been able to successfully encode an uncompressed AVI movie to mpg2 using CCE SP and I'm totally happy with the outcome apart from one thing which I don't understand. During scenes in the movie which I have, for instance.. wooden fences with lots of lines on them, or buildings with intricate carved details in the design or windows with bars on them... I get a kind of crazy flicker effect going on on those particular parts of the image. This weird effect is most commonly seen on people wearing "black and white striped shirts" I think. You know how they create a kind of crazy flickering effect on the stripes?

Well, what causes this, does it have a name and what settings can I play with in CCE to reduce this weird effect?

Thanks alot.

P.S - I'm encoding progressive AVI to progressive mpg2 - a high VBR like (max 9000/ avg 8500/min 2000) and 2 pass. All filters were disabled.

Note: This crazy effect is present slightly on the original source dvd video but not as bad or in as many places as the mpg2 CCE produced for me.

[neil wilkes]

Hi Guys.
Quick question about Q10 in the FAQ - the whole UFF thing.
Does this still apply to CCE-SP3? (latest build on CinemaCraft servers)
Source files are UFF

(I ask as the manual seems to say different, and I have been having problems with this lately, as we normally use Progressive source files)

Output top field first stream
Specifies the field order of output stream. If it is selected, the
output stream is top field first. Otherwise bottom field first. This
setting works only on MPEG-2 output.
It is important to set correct field order, because incorrect field
order causes stuttered motion. To set field order correctly, you have
to care about Offset line setting.
• If the field order is same between the source and the output,
Offset line should be 0 or even number.
• If the field order is different between the source and the output,
Offset line should be 1 or odd number.

[mp3dom]

The TFF/BFF options in SP3 works exactly as SP 2.67/2.70/SP2.
If your source is TFF, check "Output Top Field first" and set the Offset line to 0. The output will be TFF.
If the source is progressive, you also need to check "Progressive" in the Window->Picture->Picture Type.

[neil wilkes]

Thanks to all you guys for this essential guide, as well as the clarification above.
The word "Phew" comes to mind.....

One more question on FAQ 7 - the "best" settings, particularly the number of passes in VBR.
Why is the option for 9 pass there is it is not helping matters smewhere along the line? (just curious, really)

EDIT.
Re the original query on FAQ 10, might it not be a good idea to update the FAQ to contain this information?
It definitely seems to say (as it currently stands) that for UFF source the flag needs to be unchecked.

So here is the rule of thumb: Always uncheck "Upper Field First" unless your video is interlaced AND bottom field first.

Is there a definitive list anywhere detailing the changes between the FAQ as written and CCE-SP3?

[mp3dom]

The FAQ refers to the versions < 2.67 (versions that doesn't have the Offset option but only the "Output TFF" checkbox).
About the multipass, I've seen that the quantization graph subtle changes for 5-6 passes. From 7 to 9 the graph stays pretty much the same. With modern PC (i7) SP3 can encode at more than 100fps (SP1/SP2 is even faster), so to stay on the safe side (even if it's insane) I prefer to encode at 9 pass (+analysis). There are other options anyway that can increase the perceived quality rather than high number of multipass (for example quantizer characteristics, the use of lowpass filter, the encoding type (still, normal, activity) and so on...)

[neil wilkes]

Thanks for this, it really is appreciated. I also have been using 9-pass as I swear it makes a difference.

Back to the FAQ, there is still ambiguity there for me though. Here's the one that bothers me:

Q11.1: Does CCE-SP 2.70 Support a true field dominance setting?

Funny you should ask. It sure does. It uses a "top_first" setting to allow changing the actual Top Field First flag. "top_first" set to 1 will set the Top Field First setting for all frames. "top_first" set to 0 will give you a Bottom Field First setting for all frames. CCE-SP 2.70 also still supports the "offset line" setting and works as before but you may want to leave it alone (ie always at 0) as not to confuse things with top_first.

What does this mean? It seems to be saying that from 2.70 setting to top first set to 0 gives BFF for all frames.....very confused.
for a file with UFF source, I need UFF set to 0, yes?

[mp3dom]

You need to pay more attention to the Offset setting.
Offset = 0 means "keep the current field dominance of the source file"
Offset = 1 means "change the field dominance"

The "Output TFF" doesn't change anything regarding the Field dominance, it only tells which flag the encoder should put inside the mpeg2.
As a general rule:

If your source is TFF:
- Check "Output Top Field First" and set Offset to 0 (for a TFF output)
- Uncheck "Output Top Field First" and set Offset to 1 (for a BFF output)
If your source is BFF:
- Uncheck "Output Top Field First" and set Offset to 0 (for a BFF output)
- Check "Output Top Field First" and set Offset to 1 (for a TFF output)

[neil wilkes]

Thank you for the clarifications - it was all getting somewhat confusing there for a while.
It did not help that the source files were messed up by the client either - it was a right mess.

[Maxiuca]

I've got another question I never was able to find an answer to and recently I found this interesting post here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...96#post1575896

TheSkiller wrote:

If you used Restream you should make very sure that "top field first" is unchecked if you check both "Frametype progressive" and "Progressive sequence" because otherwise it would be an illegal combination of flags that is known to get refused by some DVD-Players.

So TFF with "Frametype progressive" and "Progressive sequence" is illegal? Is this valid for both NTSC and PAL?

I'm wondering what to do when dealing with a progressive PAL film. I've usually encoded it using default CCE settings (so TFF) and then ran it through ReStream to set the progressive flags (CCE for some reason does not set them).

So should I uncheck TFF and leave the BFF flag?

Another CCE related question:

I had to encode a movie that was shot with 1.37:1 AR and reframed to 16:9, apart from the opening titles that had to be left with original AR and pillarboxed.
The problem is that after encoding, strange vertical artifacts (lines) appear at the border of the pillarbox and the actual image.

It looks like this (a bit like sharpening artifacts):



On the left side CCE, on the right side TMPEG. M2Vs decoded with dgindex (cpu=6 and IEEE ref iDCT)


Any ideas what may be causing this?