Are Avatar's (2D & 3D Blu-ray) subtitles incorrect/out of spec?

Stereodude · 25th September 2022, 22:15

I have the US release 2D and 3D Blu-rays of Avatar. I'm trying to rip them to a respective .mkv with subtitles that works correctly on my Zidoo Z9X. The Zidoo won't scan a subtitle track for individually flagged forced subtitles like MPC-HC will so it need a separate track that is flagged as forced in the mkv header. MakeMKV 1.17.1 with the (forced only option) generates mkv files that do do not display the subtitles correctly when played in either MPC-HC or on my Zidoo Z9X. The files when played will show non-forced subtitles that are in close time proximity to the forced subtitles. This doesn't make a whole lot of sense since the active subtitle track has only 165 on the 2D and 166 elements per mediainfo. There are 83 forced subtitles (I think) so I don't really understand how the extra "forced" track MakeMKV made could have the extra subtitles in it that it's displaying, but I can't really open them to check.

I've extracted the MakeMKV created "forced only" subtitle track from both the mkv of the 2D version and the mkv of the 3D version. BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 won't open either .sup and crashes (same error).

I figured maybe MakeMKV wasn't handling the disc correctly, so I also ripped and demuxed the English .sup track the 2D disc has several additional ways.

MakeMKV [direct] to mkv + MKVextract
AnyDVD HD + TSmuxer
AnyDVD HD + eac3to
AnyDVD HD + DGDemux

None of the .sup files from these 4 methods are bit identical. However, they all load in BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 with 346 warnings and 2033 subtitles (83 of which are forced).

Log: https://pastebin.com/7XgWBBRm

Using BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 to export only the 83 forced subtitles from those .sup files from the 2D Avatar Blu-ray generates 25 warnings (WARNING: Problems during RLE decoding of picture OBJ at offset...).

Log: https://pastebin.com/FW1fC1qG

This yields a file that when reopened in BDSup2Sub only has 75 subtitles instead of 83 and some of the 75 it has are blank. There are some number of "caption merged" messages in the log window.

Log: https://pastebin.com/a3P37gsy

I tried muxing this forced only track from BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 to test it another way. It basically does what you'd expect. Only displaying the subtitles that are in the .sup that also have an image.

DGDemux's "forced subs only" option for the 2D Blu-ray also generates a file that BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 won't open with the same crash seen when trying to open it.

Muxing the 2D's forced track from DGDemux (that I can't open in BDSup2Sub 5.1.2) also doesn't play back correctly in MPC-HC. Some non-forced subtitles appear (not exactly the same as the MakeMKV created rendition) and the last subtitle for a given scene with Na'vi from the forced track seems to hang on the screen indefinitely.

On the 3D disc, the different methods of getting the .sup also makes files that aren't bit identical. They open in BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 with 359 warnings and 1983 subtitles (83 of which are forced).

Log: https://pastebin.com/5D5p8SYr

I can export the 83 forced subtitles with BDSup2Sub 5.1.2. I only get 1 warning.

Log: https://pastebin.com/HxyNtqrb

This yields a file that when reopened in BDSup2Sub seems okay. It has 83 forced subtitles and they all have an image.

Muxing this track into the 3D .mkv seems to work correctly.

DGDemux's "forced subs only" option for the 3D Blu-ray generates a file that BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 won't open with the same crash seen when trying to open it.

Muxing the 3D's forced track from DGDemux (that I can't open in BDSup2Sub 5.1.2) also doesn't play back correctly in MPC-HC. Some non-forced subtitles appear (not exactly the same as the MakeMKV created rendition) and the last subtitle for a given scene with Na'vi from the forced track seems to hang on the screen indefinitely.

Do the Blu-rays of Avatar have subtitles that are out of spec or are unusual in some way that causes nearly all the software tools not be able to process/handle them?
Is there another program beside BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 that I can use to check the .sup files or export only the forced subtitles?

25th September 2022, 22:15	#1 \| Link
Stereodude Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Region 0 Posts: 1,436	Are Avatar's (2D & 3D Blu-ray) subtitles incorrect/out of spec? I have the US release 2D and 3D Blu-rays of Avatar. I'm trying to rip them to a respective .mkv with subtitles that works correctly on my Zidoo Z9X. The Zidoo won't scan a subtitle track for individually flagged forced subtitles like MPC-HC will so it need a separate track that is flagged as forced in the mkv header. MakeMKV 1.17.1 with the (forced only option) generates mkv files that do do not display the subtitles correctly when played in either MPC-HC or on my Zidoo Z9X. The files when played will show non-forced subtitles that are in close time proximity to the forced subtitles. This doesn't make a whole lot of sense since the active subtitle track has only 165 on the 2D and 166 elements per mediainfo. There are 83 forced subtitles (I think) so I don't really understand how the extra "forced" track MakeMKV made could have the extra subtitles in it that it's displaying, but I can't really open them to check. I've extracted the MakeMKV created "forced only" subtitle track from both the mkv of the 2D version and the mkv of the 3D version. BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 won't open either .sup and crashes (same error). I figured maybe MakeMKV wasn't handling the disc correctly, so I also ripped and demuxed the English .sup track the 2D disc has several additional ways. MakeMKV [direct] to mkv + MKVextract AnyDVD HD + TSmuxer AnyDVD HD + eac3to AnyDVD HD + DGDemux None of the .sup files from these 4 methods are bit identical. However, they all load in BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 with 346 warnings and 2033 subtitles (83 of which are forced). Log: https://pastebin.com/7XgWBBRm Using BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 to export only the 83 forced subtitles from those .sup files from the 2D Avatar Blu-ray generates 25 warnings (WARNING: Problems during RLE decoding of picture OBJ at offset...). Log: https://pastebin.com/FW1fC1qG This yields a file that when reopened in BDSup2Sub only has 75 subtitles instead of 83 and some of the 75 it has are blank. There are some number of "caption merged" messages in the log window. Log: https://pastebin.com/a3P37gsy I tried muxing this forced only track from BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 to test it another way. It basically does what you'd expect. Only displaying the subtitles that are in the .sup that also have an image. DGDemux's "forced subs only" option for the 2D Blu-ray also generates a file that BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 won't open with the same crash seen when trying to open it. Muxing the 2D's forced track from DGDemux (that I can't open in BDSup2Sub 5.1.2) also doesn't play back correctly in MPC-HC. Some non-forced subtitles appear (not exactly the same as the MakeMKV created rendition) and the last subtitle for a given scene with Na'vi from the forced track seems to hang on the screen indefinitely. On the 3D disc, the different methods of getting the .sup also makes files that aren't bit identical. They open in BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 with 359 warnings and 1983 subtitles (83 of which are forced). Log: https://pastebin.com/5D5p8SYr I can export the 83 forced subtitles with BDSup2Sub 5.1.2. I only get 1 warning. Log: https://pastebin.com/HxyNtqrb This yields a file that when reopened in BDSup2Sub seems okay. It has 83 forced subtitles and they all have an image. Muxing this track into the 3D .mkv seems to work correctly. DGDemux's "forced subs only" option for the 3D Blu-ray generates a file that BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 won't open with the same crash seen when trying to open it. Muxing the 3D's forced track from DGDemux (that I can't open in BDSup2Sub 5.1.2) also doesn't play back correctly in MPC-HC. Some non-forced subtitles appear (not exactly the same as the MakeMKV created rendition) and the last subtitle for a given scene with Na'vi from the forced track seems to hang on the screen indefinitely. Do the Blu-rays of Avatar have subtitles that are out of spec or are unusual in some way that causes nearly all the software tools not be able to process/handle them? Is there another program beside BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 that I can use to check the .sup files or export only the forced subtitles? Last edited by Stereodude; 25th September 2022 at 22:17.