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Old 28th November 2016, 00:33   #40801  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.91.2 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* renamed NGU quality levels: Low -> Med, Med -> High, High -> VeryHigh
* added a new even faster NGU "Low" variant
* reworked chroma/image up/downscaling/doubling settings pages
* removed NEDI and super-xbr image doubling algorithms
* small speed improvement for NGU-Med (former NGU-Low)
* small quality improvement for NGU-Med/High (former NGU-Low/Med)
* settings dialog warns when SuperRes and NGU are enabled at the same time
* pixel shader database is compressed now to save space
I've changed the whole scaling settings logic to make things easier to understand, and to protect "normal" users from chosing bad configurations. I'm not sure if the power users will like the changes or not. Please give it a try and let me know what you think. I'm willing to consider alternatives/changes/extensions. But it's important that "normal" users are guided by the settings dialog in such a way that they choose good settings.

I've dropped super-xbr for image doubling because the new "NGU-Low" is now faster (at least for me) than super-xbr, even without SuperRes. So the only 2 remaining resolution doublers are now NGU and NNEDI3. FYI, when doing an exact 2x upscale, NGU-Low is now also faster than JincAR (without SuperRes)!

super-xbr is still available for chroma upscaling, though.
On first glance, it is much easier to understand. Thumbs up!

The only problem is that it makes a mess of my setup guide. Oh well, no big deal...

Last edited by Warner306; 28th November 2016 at 00:35.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:38   #40802  |  Link
Fullmetal Encoder
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Instead of all the mess you would potentially be dealing with in trying to use FreeSync/G-SYNC with madVR couldn't one simply buy a TV/monitor that's designed to produce output at the correct intervals? And maybe if more people asked for and purchased such equipment it would become more commonly available. I have been thinking for some time of getting an Eizo monitor for playback with full 24p etc. capability. It's true some of their sets are very highly priced but they usually have a cheaper version available with almost exactly the same functionalities. Has anyone out there tried such an Eizo for playback with madVR?
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:39   #40803  |  Link
Skwelcha
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Can't use NEEDI3 anymore, was working before on 0.91.1.

http://www.xup.in/dl,10753597/madVR_-_log.txt/
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:42   #40804  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullmetal Encoder View Post
Instead of all the mess you would potentially be dealing with in trying to use FreeSync/G-SYNC with madVR couldn't one simply buy a TV/monitor that's designed to produce output at the correct intervals?
TVs typically already support all relevant modes for video, at least in Europe. US TVs often lack a 50Hz mode for reasons, in case you watch PAL content.

For monitors, 24p modes may be missing, but on higher-end screens you can instead get 120Hz, which is equally good, if not better.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:47   #40805  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
sorry i don't see that working for DVDs.

edit: and very common 4/3 AR 16/9 broadcast shouldn't work too.
Why? NGU could upscale 8x, then downscale to the target resolution. Just an example, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
The only problem is that it makes a mess of my setup guide.
Haha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skwelcha View Post
Can't use NEEDI3 anymore, was working before on 0.91.1.
What does "Can't use" mean exactly? Maybe make a screenshot of the OSD (Ctrl+J) and a screenshot of your image upscaling settings page.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:49   #40806  |  Link
Knight77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
Is sanear in the nightlies 0.3? (08/2015)

Haven't done much testing, but I noticed exclusive mode seems to be working better than in previous versions (that or some MPC-HC change since July nightly).
Which nightlies? These?
https://github.com/alexmarsev/sanear/releases

Has Sanear been updated? Seen that link looks like there are no new releases since 2015...
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:53   #40807  |  Link
Skwelcha
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As soon as it tries to upscale it just hangs with the following message:



http://www.pic-upload.de/view-32195293/1.png.html
http://www.pic-upload.de/view-321952...age02.png.html
Downscale s on Biubic100 LL AR Relaxed, Chroma is Biubic150 AR, no upscale refinement.
Sry for the vague post, thought the log was sufficent.
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Last edited by Skwelcha; 28th November 2016 at 00:59.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:59   #40808  |  Link
Sp00kyFox
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@madshi
I think it was a good idea to combine doubling and upscaling together. it seems way less ambigious for the standard user to have only one tab for this. but could you explain to us what the logic is behind the NGU options "chroma/downscale quality: automatic" and "activate only if it's useful"? this is some information the power user probably wanna know, me included.

ps: I think there is a display oversight with the OSD. when choosing NGU (very high) the OSD says "chroma > NGU-high" instead of "chroma > NGU-veryHigh" like it does with luma.

Last edited by Sp00kyFox; 28th November 2016 at 01:17.
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Old 28th November 2016, 01:30   #40809  |  Link
JarrettH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp00kyFox View Post
@madshi
I think it was a good idea to combine doubling and upscaling together. it seems way less ambigious for the standard user to have only one tab for this. but could you explain to us what the logic is behind the NGU options "chroma/downscale quality: automatic" and "activate only if it's useful"? this is some information the power user probably wanna know, me included.

ps: I think there is a display oversight with the OSD. when choosing NGU (very high) the OSD says "chroma > NGU-high" instead of "chroma > NGU-veryHigh" like it does with luma.
Also noticed that chroma quality is unselectable at low, medium settings - probably because that shouldn't be a selection then.

Question:

chroma > super-xbr
luma > ngu-med < bicubic150ar
chroma > bicubic60ar

What is bicubic60ar for? As a doubler?

Last edited by JarrettH; 28th November 2016 at 03:09.
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Old 28th November 2016, 01:31   #40810  |  Link
Anima123
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With the latest version, there's error when trying to enter full-screen mode, and using NNEDI3 neurons as image doubler.
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Old 28th November 2016, 01:40   #40811  |  Link
Schwartz
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Sorry but NGU doesn't hold a candle to XBR-75 for image doubling. At least with the material I'm upscaling, which is generally medium-high quality SD, NGU on various settings (tried low and high) gives me way more artifacts and obvious artificial sharpening. I'd like to suggest adding Super-XBR back, it's a great image doubler.

Last edited by Schwartz; 28th November 2016 at 01:54.
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Old 28th November 2016, 02:04   #40812  |  Link
JarrettH
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I don't know what you've done with the speed-ups, madshi, but this is a whole lot faster than 0.91.1. Even on 25 fps material, I don't have to change settings

I can use ngu-med (new medium) on 720p to 1080p and ngu-high (new high) with sd material on my GeForce 550 Ti

Last edited by JarrettH; 28th November 2016 at 02:07.
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Old 28th November 2016, 02:09   #40813  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Why no more old high + high quadrupling?
Current max quality doesn't look nice to me for quadrupling cartoons. I'd really like to be in charge how luma is scaled, any automatism is just a painful restriction...

Last edited by aufkrawall; 28th November 2016 at 02:12.
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Old 28th November 2016, 02:11   #40814  |  Link
bcec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
What does "Can't use" mean exactly? Maybe make a screenshot of the OSD (Ctrl+J) and a screenshot of your image upscaling settings page.
NNEDI3 crashes for me. I am doing NNEDI3-64 for 1080->2160 doubling
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Old 28th November 2016, 02:20   #40815  |  Link
bcec
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Does anyone observe their render times start with x ms, and then after 10 or so seconds jumps to x+(5 to 10)ms when using NGU? It then gradually comes back and settles around x + (3-6)ms. Same behavior regardless of the scene or starting point.

I observed similar behavior when thin edges from upscaling refinement was selected, and seeing that behavior for NGU now.
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Old 28th November 2016, 02:32   #40816  |  Link
MariaX9
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What is the difference between "image downscaling" and the "downscale quality" setting in image upscaling?

Also i cant select the very high setting in chroma upscaling, it always switches back to high.
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Old 28th November 2016, 02:36   #40817  |  Link
x7007
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Should I use

Chroma Upscaling - NGU Very High + SuperRes 3 ( Do I need SuperRes 3 when using NGU in Chroma Upscaling ) ?
Image upscaling NGU - Luma Very High , Chorma Quality - Auto , Downscale Quality - Auto , Activate only if it's useful
Upscaling Refi - All Disabled


*Also i cant select the very high setting in chroma upscaling, it always switches back to high. - Same happens to me
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Old 28th November 2016, 03:02   #40818  |  Link
Q-the-STORM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MariaX9 View Post
What is the difference between "image downscaling" and the "downscale quality" setting in image upscaling?

Also i cant select the very high setting in chroma upscaling, it always switches back to high.
image downscaling is for actually downscaling, like 2160p video on a 1080p display, or 1080p video in a 720p window.
downscale quality is for what downscaling algorithm is used after doubling, so for e.g. 720p on a 1080p display, it doubles to 1440p and then downscales to 1080p using what is set in downscale quality...
as for reverting to high, you can only use veryhigh if you use veryhigh for luma as well, you can't use high on luma and veryhigh on chroma... see 4. in my post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
Should I use
Chroma Upscaling - NGU Very High + SuperRes 3 ( Do I need SuperRes 3 when using NGU in Chroma Upscaling ) ?
Don't use Superres with NGU...




New settings look good, takes a bit to figure it out if you come from the old settings page, but it will definitely be a lot easier to get into it if you're a newbie....

1. Would be nice to still get a way to set low/med/high/veryhigh for the quadrupling step, for people that want stuff like high-high, though I do realize that would pretty much only be useful for GPUs that can't do veryhigh-med but can do high-high, so this might be a niche, which would complicate things again for normal users... maybe it's better the way it is now... on the other hand, being able to do high-low might be interesting for people that can't do high-med and would have to resort to med-low otherwise...
2. In image upscaling, it would be great if "chroma quality" and "downscale quality" would actually state what alogrithms are being used... sure you can enable it and check OSD, but it shouldn't be too much of an issue to have it say "chroma quality: high (NGU low + bicubic60 AR)"
3. What is "automatic" in qulaity settings? Dynamic depending on what other settings you use? if 2. is implemented, that would obviously answer this question, since you'd see which alogrithm is used every time, or does automatic not only change with
4. When luma high is selected, chorma veryhigh automatically reverts to high. Instead of automatically reverting, maybe display a message that it would be better to select higher luma quality than chroma. The way it is now feels like a bug.

Bug:
- with 720p -> 2160p on chroma quality normal OSD shows bicubic60 AR twice "chroma > bicubic60 AR > bicubic60 AR" shouldn't bicubic60 AR do this in one step? maybe just an OSD bug
this only happens with full 2160p, when I have a window resized to slightly smaller than 2160p, it only shows it once..
- not really a bug but maybe display the same message about superres and NGU when using NGU and superres in chroma upscaling

Last edited by Q-the-STORM; 28th November 2016 at 03:15.
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Old 28th November 2016, 03:13   #40819  |  Link
AngelGraves13
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Thanks for the new version. Some thoughts...

- Chroma NGU-Very High isn't selectable
- Image Downscaling settings aren't used when using Image Upscaling with NGU?
- NGU Upscaling - Would like to be able to use "User" setting for downscale quality, which would use my User Specified settings in Image Downscaling. Also, please add Very High for downscale quality, which would probably use SSIM 2D100%
- Soften Edges 3 and Add Grain 4 provides the best image I've ever seen with madvr, especially when upscaling SD content. Soften Edges 3 completely removes the processed sharpness and Add Grain 4 makes the image look HD with its very fine grain structure. Enhance Details seems to further enhance the grain and make the image look sharper, but I prefer it off.
- Remove ringing artifacts is a must even with NGU. I was comparing a still of Futurama with it on and off and it removed the remaining ringing around the dark black line art.
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Old 28th November 2016, 03:14   #40820  |  Link
x7007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-the-STORM View Post
image downscaling is for actually downscaling, like 2160p video on a 1080p display, or 1080p video in a 720p window.
downscale quality is for what downscaling algorithm is used after doubling, so for e.g. 720p on a 1080p display, it doubles to 1440p and then downscales to 1080p using what is set in downscale quality...
as for reverting to high, you can only use veryhigh if you use veryhigh for luma as well, you can't use high on luma and veryhigh on chroma... see 4. in my post...


Don't use Superres with NGU...






New settings look good, takes a bit to figure it out if you come from the old settings page, but it will definitely be a lot easier to get into it if you're a newbie....

1. Would be nice to still get a way to set low/med/high/veryhigh for the quadrupling step, for people that want stuff like high-high, though I do realize that would pretty much only be useful for GPUs that can't do veryhigh-med but can do high-high, so this might be a niche, which would complicate things again for normal users... maybe it's better the way it is now...
2. In image upscaling, it would be great if "chroma quality" and "downscale quality" would actually state what alogrithms are being used... sure you can enable it and check OSD, but it shouldn't be too much of an issue to have it say "chroma quality: high (NGU low + bicubic60 AR)"
3. What is "automatic" in qulaity settings? Dynamic depending on what other settings you use? if 2. is implemented, that would obviously answer this question, since you'd see which alogrithm is used every time, or does automatic not only change with
4. When luma high is selected, chorma veryhigh automatically reverts to high. Instead of automatically reverting, maybe display a message that it would be better to select higher luma quality than chroma. The way it is now feels like a bug.

Bug:
- with 720p -> 2160p on chroma quality normal OSD shows bicubic60 AR twice "chroma > bicubic60 AR > bicubic60 AR" shouldn't bicubic60 AR do this in one step? maybe just an OSD bug
this only happens with full 2160p, when I have a window resized to slightly smaller than 2160p, it only shows it once..
- not really a bug but maybe display the same message about superres and NGU when using NGU and superres in chroma upscaling

i'm using all Very High and still can't select the Very High on Chroma Upscaling
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