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Old 20th March 2020, 16:55   #21  |  Link
Klaus1189
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Do Panasonic TVs really not support YCbCr 4:4:4/RGB and "TRUE" (!!) native 24p?

Can someone play one of my testfiles on his/her Panasonic and create an evidence with a camera using 1 sec exposure time and post it here but please use google driver or similar?

I am really interested in one new model, but if all Panasonics behave like that what is already mentioned, then it is out for me.
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Old 20th March 2020, 17:49   #22  |  Link
huhn
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no they do that by design
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Old 20th March 2020, 18:05   #23  |  Link
Klaus1189
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What a pity .. Why? Is that intended by them?
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Old 20th March 2020, 19:46   #24  |  Link
huhn
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yes it is intended i talked with technicians.

they may changed there "ways" in 2020 but i will not go and find out. my panasonic TV isn't bad but it's not massively better then samsung and the rest of the mainstream.

the x900h looks like the LCD this year anyway.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 18:36   #25  |  Link
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What about TCL?
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Old 23rd March 2020, 19:44   #26  |  Link
huhn
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know for banding.
hilarious bad pre calibration results.
bad input lag.
and "good" prices.

beware the usually tested US model is totally different from the EU pal model. so if you buy it in the EU you are gambling.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 19:46   #27  |  Link
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What manufacturers are worth to look at?
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Old 23rd March 2020, 20:03   #28  |  Link
huhn
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depends on what you want.

sony is expensive and usually technically behind other brands.
VRR is a pretty default feature on most expensive TVs even through the majority has bad implementations they have an implementation compared to sony. sony only plans to add this feature to 1 TV in 2020 and they a selling consoles...
there are samsung TV in 2018 that have it.

then we have BFI and the different qualities do you want flickery but better 60 HZ BFI or ghosting but less flicker 120 HZ?
or motion interpolation they all have different implementations.

do you want native 120 HZ a default feature on LG this year.

what about the backlight type are you going to use an active backlight or not? how much does blooming annoy you?

how much do you care about brightness and how stable that brightness is. usually sonys are not as bright as other brands even with the same panel but they are more consistent so they have worse highlights but not as often a dimmed image.

there is just too much.
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Old 14th April 2020, 19:17   #29  |  Link
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I don't know if you're interested, but here are some observations from my TV.
It's a Samsung 1080p 120 Hz 2016 (Full Led) panel, so I'm useless for HDR stuff. I know it's an old panel, but I would not be surprised to have similarities with today models (would be nice is some people would confirm). As huhn said, if you use PC (or DVI) AND 59/60 Hz, you'll have 4:4:4. Every other combination results in 4:2:2 (it was already the case in 2009).

As I'm totally not interested in color accuracy (as long as a yellow is yellow, blue blue etc), I'm really interested by Motion Interpolation implementation. Samsung has quite a good reputation for this.
As soon as you enable this option, Samsung internal software analyses the content and if it detects a movie it will try to apply its interpolation, EVEN IF you are in 60Hz mode ! But... There are unfortunately several flaws.

The good:
It works very well if you are in 23/24 Hz mode (4:2:2 as said earlier). You can adjust smoothness in option, and you have perfect motion without soap opera effect. Smooth Motion from madVR looks terrible in comparison. Perfect use of a 120 Hz panel.

The bad:
- At 59/60 Hz (4:2:2), it works but not every time, sometimes detection fails and forgets it's a 23/24 fps video for 1 second, so if you want smoothness, let's admit it is not functional.
- Except when video fps = display fps, it is totally not compatible with madVR. Even with Smooth Motion disabled, madVR does something (I don't know what but it must do something internally to avoid the classic 3:2 pulldown for example), and Motion interpolation causes terrible judder. Other players/renderers don't bother Samsung Motion Interpolation like this.

The worst:
It works only with 23/24 fps video on 23/24 fps display.
With 25fps videos, it does not work at all when display is at 50Hz. You better use 60Hz display with a 25 fps video but smoothness won't be as perfect as 23fps on 23Hz.


So in the end, when I have 23/24 fps video, I use 23/24 Hz display refresh rate (with any player/renderer) with Samsung Motion Interpolation.

For 25 fps content, I use 60 Hz with Samsung Motion Interpolation disabled and I use madVR Smooth Motion (unique algorithm, unfortunately no equivalent in other renderer/players). I don't even use 50 Hz display rate, since I would not be surprised if internally TV worked in 60 Hz. And like Smooth Motion works better with higher refresh rate, I use 60 Hz.
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Old 14th April 2020, 19:24   #30  |  Link
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Thanks for info, I will have to read it a few times to fully understand it

could you also post the exact model number of the tv?
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Old 14th April 2020, 19:34   #31  |  Link
pirlouy
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UE60J6240

Yep, I understand it sounds complicated, especially because on this forum, motion interpolation is not an important feature and (I think) it is not often discussed (or unfairly associated to soap opera effect).
Maybe it's because OLED pixel reactivity is really that good and don't need Motion interpolation (I doubt it). But I don't plan to buy one. OLED is too expensive + flaws + LG.
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Old 14th April 2020, 19:54   #32  |  Link
Klaus1189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirlouy View Post
+ LG.
What do you mean with that exactly? Probably flaws of LG? Do you know any? Need opinions of other users
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Old 14th April 2020, 20:08   #33  |  Link
pirlouy
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OLED has several flaws, burn-in being one, but with years, I've read a lot.

And LG has never been known for great post-processing stuff.
Sony, Samsung and I think Panasonic have better reputation.
I'm really not into HDR or 4k at all but when I read LG OLED users, I can't stop thinking LG is still bad at processing signal. But as I don't own one and I don't have HDR content, I can't tell for sure, just feeling after some readings.
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Old 14th April 2020, 20:09   #34  |  Link
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In terms of motion handling I preferred an LG C7-OLED over my new Sony AF9-OLED.
Sony notoriously introduces judder, whereas LG just kept interpolating things.
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Old 14th April 2020, 20:21   #35  |  Link
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Just to be sure, is it just feeling or have you done proper tests with files like this: https://www.oc-burner.de/ftp/Videos/juddertest/ ?
It's really time consuming to test judder with several videos fps, several display rates, several TV options.

Sony is also limited by the fact they use LG OLED panel, so if LG badly conceives them, they can't fix that.
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Old 14th April 2020, 20:55   #36  |  Link
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One cannot show the effect of motion handling between SONY and LG with such a simple moving bar judder test.

Sony simply fails when sudden changes in motion direction happens.
Generally Sony behaves worse on complex motion than LG.
On the other hand Sony has fewer artifacts.

Sony simply fails to give me the Soap-Opera-Effect I like.
LG just smoothes everything to be like shot on video.
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Old 6th June 2020, 17:16   #37  |  Link
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Where can I look up color gamut info of LG TVs and also Sony TVs? What menu entries do I have to select? On Samsung I know it, but how is that on LG and Sony? DCI-P3 or BT.2020 for example of HDR sources.
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Old 6th June 2020, 20:29   #38  |  Link
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I can only speak for the LG OLEDs, but they traditionally have three different settings: auto, wide, and extended. Wide is the display's native gamut. Extended is a bit of a mystery, but it's larger than BT.709, and smaller than wide. You'd think auto picks between the other two, but that's not the case. All three can produce a different image, depending on the source. With some image presets the gamut is locked to a particular setting, depending on the model year.
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Old 7th June 2020, 11:42   #39  |  Link
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Thanks for the answer.

Can I set a LG TV both "Real Cinema" for 5:5 Pulldown (I know it needs a 100Hz/120Hz Panel for it) AND PC mode (for YCbCr 4:4:4/RGB support -> by naming the HDMI input to "PC") at the same time?
How is LG's "Real Cinema" called on Sony TVs? Or is this feature enabled by another setting like nmaing the input to film or whatever.

What is the smallest Sony/LG/Samsung which can do YCbCr 4:4:4/RGB and 5:5 Pulldown at the same time? I am searching rtings now but I am lost.
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Old 7th June 2020, 14:28   #40  |  Link
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sony is simple
every X series is able to do 4:4:4 at everything AFAIK.
for 4:4:4 you need to select a preset named gaming or photo that's it.
there is no option for real cinema or something like that they do this correct if it is physically possible (as it should be...). they have an option to add "BFI" or backlight strobing that found under the motion interpolation setting by setting one of the settings to max and the other to the lowest no new frames are created by this. thsi doesn't work flawlessly on the OLED there is no backlight meaning they have to use real BFI which limited the current TVs to 60 HZ.
even 60 HZ panel (not the OLED with BFI)can display 24 hz correctly accordingly to rtings at least. this does not work with the internal player because the UI of it is rendered in 60 HZ supposedly.

getting the smallest/cheap tv that can do something like that is no easy task because it depends on the year the European model may not even have the same panel. beware a lot of sony TVs have LG IPS panel with a CR below 1000 they are usually all 120 HZ i'm not aware of an LG IPS panel for TVs that is not.
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