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Old 12th January 2008, 00:36   #61  |  Link
JohnnyPintas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by setarip_old View Post
Just hold down the "Shift" key while the tray recycles...
Thanks for a most usefull tip, it does indeed work

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Old 12th January 2008, 02:02   #62  |  Link
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Thanks for a most usefull tip, it does indeed work
You're quite welcome ;>}
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Old 13th January 2008, 08:03   #63  |  Link
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@marsoupilami

Hi, and sorry about the "cut & paste" typo showing ISOBuster having produced the 1-sector-short ISO file. I've edited that text to correct the mistake.

Also, sorry to see this may be a third-party problem (harder to fix). Well, here's some more information that may help:

The main test was on a Windows2000 system with a Lite-On DVDRW drive.

ISOPuzzle, with Nero's wnaspi32.dll (v.2.0.1.74), started the recovery stating 231864 sectors to fill (1 sector short of the actual amount). I searched the hard drive and found another wnaspi32.dll (v.1.0.0.14) from Acronis hard drive backup software, which I put in place of your recommended Nero version. Still, ISOPuzzle reported there were 231864 sectors to fill.

Then, I installed ISOPuzzle on a WindowsXP system with a no-name CDRW drive.

Again ISOPuzzle, with Nero's wnaspi32.dll (v.2.0.1.74), started the recovery with 231864 sectors to fill (still 1 sector short). I searched the hard drive and found another wnaspi32.dll (v.2.0.1.59) from Nero disc burning software, which I put in place of your newer Nero version. Still, ISOPuzzle noted there were only 231864 sectors to fill.

BTW, I looked into the ISOBuster folder but found no wnaspi32.dll. They must have implemented something internally.

To sum up, with 2 operating systems, 2 disc drives, 3 drivers, ISOPuzzle is still seeing 1 sector short. Just more sauce for the goose (as Spock would say in some Star Trek movie).


@setarip_old

The old "hold down the shift key" trick only works if one is watching the recovery. As some recoveries go on for many hours or even over night (hence the "cool down" check-box), that might not be practical. I'm afraid one must manually toggle Windows's "CD autoplay" option in those instances.

Last edited by imatasion; 13th January 2008 at 08:24.
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Old 14th January 2008, 21:00   #64  |  Link
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@imatasion

Thanks for your findings - seems that's not a Neros bug...
If I misinterpreted the reported size ... shame on me!

What I found out during the weekend:
1.) Both Nero Aspi and Frog Aspi reports '0' for an empty disk while size for disks with content is one sector more.
2.) This 'extra' or 'hidden' sector is sometimes not present.
3.) This 'extra' sector is sometimes not readable by specific drives.

What I'm doing now - I hope this would be clean solution:
1.) This sector is included from now on.
2.) On starting up copy process this sector will be read first.
3.) If it is not readable at the first attempt a warning box pops up and the user can decide to limit the retries for this specific sector (if it's the only missing one).
This prevents senseless torturing the drive while keeping alive all other functions.

I don't know what IsoBuster does but I think it will use IOCTL interface.
As I stated in a previous post I'll play around a little with IOCTL in the future (as I know it is part of Windows but not available in W9x).

Currently I'm trying to find out if this sector often contains important data - until now it doesn't look like.
Even if this would be true it wouldn't be very helpful for you... I know.

However - I treat this missing sector as serious and will suspend my work on some new features.

EDIT: '1.7 Beta' is up now!

Sorry about the inconvenience and thanks for your time!
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Last edited by marsoupilami; 15th January 2008 at 00:46. Reason: 1.7 Beta uploaded
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Old 22nd January 2008, 05:12   #65  |  Link
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@marsoupilami

Thanks for all your work! I ran a (quick) test on my scratched disc and discovered the new beta has corrected it's missing sector problem. Hopefully, that also will handle the various disc-reading scenarios you described.

-

This last test recovery on my scratched-up disc went "quick". Why? I searched around for a disc-repair solution to make, if not for any other reason, the scratched disc easier to read for recovery. There a several commercial products (and home remedies) that claim to do the job. Over at Burning Issues (.net), CD Repair Kits - versus - various goops from kitchen & bathroom has comparative tests and shows what actually works. Their conclusion? Brasso Metal Polish, available at your local supermarket or hardware store, beats them all in both results and price (under $3). I tried it on my disc. Three rubbings really reduced the scratches and made the overall surface like-new shiny. Better still, this time, ISOPuzzle read the entire disc without a single retry!

For this type of unreadable disc problem and Brasso, you may not even need ISOPuzzle! (Sorry.)

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Old 17th June 2008, 08:32   #66  |  Link
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@marsoupilami

So far I could not save any defective Disc but I am still trying out each new version.

I normally try four drives two slimline Pioneer DVR-K06, and Matshita UJ-824s, and a TEAC WD-50, LG 4167.

While three worked fine one gave me this message
"Loop 1 Read 255277 Error 0
Exit 0x0 0k"

I compared the ISO-files with windiff.exe and all are identical.

What does this mean?
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Old 17th June 2008, 22:46   #67  |  Link
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@snn47

Especially during debugging & testing the "log window" was very useful for me... obviously you turned it to "verbose" once:
Quote:
Loop 1 Read 255277 Error 0
Exit 0x0 0k
means: 255277 sectors read in 1 loop (no retries) with no errors.
Exit 0 is the return code "OK" of the copy task

Your files should be identical.
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Old 17th June 2008, 23:32   #68  |  Link
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Thank you,
I was confused because with the other drives I did not get this message just the exit and that the flagfile was deleted at the end.

I did not have any CD/DVD software installed except for DVD-RAM driver. When I have some time I will test isopuzzle with an naked-image xp-pro-sp2, where I have not even installed the DVD-RAM driver.
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Old 18th June 2008, 13:39   #69  |  Link
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Originally Posted by imatasion View Post
...Brasso Metal Polish, available at your local supermarket or hardware store, beats them all in both results and price...
The recent bumps caused this post to catch my eye. I too have used Brasso along with many other methods and I think it's (surprisingly) the best too.
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Old 24th December 2009, 04:02   #70  |  Link
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Doesn't work on SATA for me. Shows Unknown Volume and reads all 0`s. I think it's due to the Nero Aspi. I tried also FrogAspi, that doesn't work even on IDE.

Anyone know a solution?

(I have 18000 sectors left to recover, on my big computer every pass yields 10-50 new sectors, and it's a torture for the drive even with cooldown - it has been running for 20 hours now).

GL
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Old 7th February 2010, 23:51   #71  |  Link
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More feedback on tests performed

@GrofLuigi
I own two SATA drives and both work with isopuzzle, via the SATA controller or a SATA to USB 2.0 bridge, only with a bidirectional IDE to SATA bridge I have some problems which I have not been able to narrow down.



@marsoupilami

Over the past year I bought A LiteOn iHAS424 and a LG GSA H20, and received a few older ROM drives from a friend, but still no old Plextor drive 716 or older.

I ran additional tests over the holidays with all drives comparing Isopuzzle 1.7 to that of Isobuster professional version 2.6, and here is what I observed

- No drive was able to recover all my hard to read DVD.
While in average my Matshita provided the best overall results followed by my LiteOn and TEAC, there were some DVD on which the normally unsucessfull LG were more sucessful.
Some drives were never sucessfull.

- Some recovered ISO proved to be defective, when I play all contained mpg files, the playback stopped, while wthe ISO recovered from another drive worked.
While some drive provide “correct“ output in fact they do not . Prolonged reading provides more sectors read but not necessarily correct one.

- Isopuzzle also works with DVD-RAM.
Error correction responds on DVD-RAM not to well to fingerprints and dirt. I don’t know if this is also the case for normal DVD.

- You can’t recover what the drive is not able to read. In several tries I had my drives try it for a few days and still ~70000 sectors were missing, using a my slow Matshita slim-line drive I had an ISO in less then an hour, even with other programms .

- I still am not to shure how many sectors a DVD has if the drive does not provide a feedback. Furthermore while I have not read of any drive that is able to overburn, this might require a more flexible handling of ISO size as discussed below.

This brings me to the following questions

- Do you think reducing the speed of a drive might differ the results of the error correction?
I remember reading that some drives can even be made to read at 1x speed, but I have not tried if Nero Speed works.

- Is the error-correction dependent of the DVD specs detected by the drive or is this only of interest for burning DVD?

- Do you think it makes sense to compare images made with different drives of the same DVD.

So far I assume that different sectors that are more or less ok will have identical contense and could be identified by assigning a quality value (=number of identical reaults from different drives).

Hard to read sectors may differ from drive and error correction to drive and error correction.
If stored in a Matrix, only the identified hard to read sectors are the only ones that need to be verified on different drived, while those that remain identical on 2 or more drives would just improve the quality.

If the recovered information of e.g. n-drives is stored in an n-deep matrix, each read info x sectors wide and create the ISO out of the matrix rather then having to start a new iso. This way different ISOs could be created varying in number of sectors and which hard read sector result from which drive is used. Do you think such a Matrix-ISOpuzzle is workable?


Unlike ISOBuster, which operates more or less automatic only with a percentage as feedback, I’d say that Isopuzzle allows user to better judgement if waiting for a prolonged time seems promising or not. However neither ISObuster nor ISOpuzzle can guarnatee that the resulting ISO is ok.

Last edited by snn47; 8th February 2010 at 00:04.
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Old 8th February 2010, 13:26   #72  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snn47 View Post
I ran additional tests over the holidays with all drives comparing Isopuzzle 1.7 to that of Isobuster professional version 2.6, and here is what I observed

- No drive was able to recover all my hard to read DVD.
While in average my Matshita provided the best overall results followed by my LiteOn and TEAC, there were some DVD on which the normally unsucessfull LG were more sucessful.
Some drives were never sucessfull.
The best readers are the DVD-rewriters from LG. They beat by far any LiteOn, Matsushita or Teac (which are LiteOns). Older Pioneer (DVD-ROMs) are also quite good.
Nuance: there are several defects and disk types and thus there are many good drives, some are the best in reading pressed DVDs, other support the DVDRs better, also the LGs are more tolerant towards jitter, while the Pioneers can withstand scratches better.

Quote:
While some drive provide “correct“ output in fact they do not . Prolonged reading provides more sectors read but not necessarily correct one.
Then either the FW is erroneous (it would yield defective data also on clean DVDs, it was a case with some drives not very long ago, in the same galaxy) or the data is beyond recovery (any reader would yield the same result).
Quote:
- Do you think reducing the speed of a drive might differ the results of the error correction?
I remember reading that some drives can even be made to read at 1x speed, but I have not tried if Nero Speed works.
Yes.
Quote:
- Is the error-correction dependent of the DVD specs detected by the drive or is this only of interest for burning DVD?
They're the same (for DVDs).
Quote:
- Do you think it makes sense to compare images made with different drives of the same DVD.
Usually no, but it helps finding if one particular drive has problems in correctly extracting the data from a DVD.
Quote:
If the recovered information of e.g. n-drives is stored in an n-deep matrix, each read info x sectors wide and create the ISO out of the matrix rather then having to start a new iso. This way different ISOs could be created varying in number of sectors and which hard read sector result from which drive is used. Do you think such a Matrix-ISOpuzzle is workable?
Yes.
Quote:
Unlike ISOBuster, which operates more or less automatic only with a percentage as feedback, I’d say that Isopuzzle allows user to better judgement if waiting for a prolonged time seems promising or not. However neither ISObuster nor ISOpuzzle can guarnatee that the resulting ISO is ok.
No, it's the drive that guarantees that. ISOxuxxxx allows you to extract the best from your drive.
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Old 8th February 2010, 19:15   #73  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snn47 View Post
@GrofLuigi
I own two SATA drives and both work with isopuzzle, via the SATA controller or a SATA to USB 2.0 bridge, only with a bidirectional IDE to SATA bridge I have some problems which I have not been able to narrow down.
This is a laptop in SATA AHCI mode and nothing else (for example IDE emulation) selectable in the BIOS.

Otherwise, as for you other questions, in all discs I've recovered (around 10) there were no errors if IsoPuzlle said so - no bogus data.

And I still can't grasp the concept of different sizes (what to do exactly in that case).

GL
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Old 8th February 2010, 23:53   #74  |  Link
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@Ghitulescu

Quote:
The best readers are the DVD-rewriters from LG. They beat by far any LiteOn, Matsushita or Teac (which are LiteOns). Older Pioneer (DVD-ROMs) are also quite good.
I can speak only for the recovery of the bad DVD with the DVD Rom and RW I tested with. My TEAC W50 is, except for the firmware, identical with Pioneer drive (PIO 106). My Pio 116 DVD-ROM was even worse, and while I have another SCSI Pio DVD-ROM, I lack a XP driver for my Adaptec 2930 SCSI controller to test it.

Quote:
the FW is erroneous (it would yield defective data also on clean DVDs, it was a case with some drives not very long ago, in the same galaxy) or the data is beyond recovery (any reader would yield the same result).
Unless I have a flawless copy I wonder how I should establish which image was correctly recovered. In case of AV Files, e.g. mpg2 the player would just stop working once the reach the corrupt data from bad sectors or showed distorded video. If I have data files of unkown contense or when corrupt archives are involved I wonder how you propose to establish which ones are correct.

@GrofLuigi
Quote:
And I still can't grasp the concept of different sizes (what to do exactly in that case).
If you look at marsoupilami reply from the 14th January 2008 reported sector may differ or not reported correctly. So I was thinking, independent if you "free set" the recovery for to few or to many sectors, you always would have to recover the DVD again and again if the ISO was not of the correct size. I thought it would be easier if you don't get the correct size reported by the drive, to grab all sectors from a DVD and be able to vary the ISO size by beeing able to adjust the number of sectors.


PS.: While I have enough corrupt or hard to read DVD, luckily I have information backups, but none of those DVD is a clone to the bad ones.
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Old 9th February 2010, 08:55   #75  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snn47 View Post
My TEAC W50 is, except for the firmware, identical with Pioneer drive (PIO 106). My Pio 116 DVD-ROM was even worse, and while I have another SCSI Pio DVD-ROM, I lack a XP driver for my Adaptec 2930 SCSI controller to test it.
Most Teacs are LiteOns, with some exceptions, I'm no longer a Teac fan (since they left the SCSI field). Sorry for my mistake.

Teac DV-W516D is Pioneer 108
Teac DV-W516GA is LiteOn 1653
Teac DV-W516G is LiteOn 1633

TEAC DV-W58G is LiteOn LDW-811S
TEAC DV-W58G-A is LiteOn SOHW-812S

The same for W512 and so on....

Your W50 has 2 versions, according to the end letter D (+-RW, Pioneer 106) or E (-R/W only, Pioneer 105).
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Old 9th August 2010, 06:16   #76  |  Link
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I cannot get ISOPuzzle working on my notebook at work (OS is WinXP SP3). I wanted to try to read a badly scratched DVD there as my home computer doesn't seem to be able to recover it. I've copied wnaspi32.dll to ISOPuzzle's folder but I still get "No drives detected" upon startup, after which the program crashes.
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Old 5th December 2010, 08:30   #77  |  Link
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Is this Project still alive???

If not is the source code available cause there are a few things I would like to change....
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Old 5th December 2010, 08:42   #78  |  Link
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@Ajax_Undone

Try contacting the author at:

mailto:Marsoupilamis@Yahoo.Gr
http://www.geocities.com/marsoupilamis/
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Old 5th December 2010, 08:45   #79  |  Link
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Thank You setarip_old the email might work but website went out with Geocities this last year or so...

But Yes I will send an email...

Indeed thank you very much =;}

Here is his new site btw if anyone cares.. http://www.marsoupilami.esmartweb.com/
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Last edited by Ajax_Undone; 6th December 2010 at 02:41.
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Old 6th December 2010, 21:38   #80  |  Link
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Hi there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax_Undone View Post
Is this Project still alive???
I only know a minor bug which doesn't need to be corrected. (It leads to slow reading, if you need more than 30 seconds for selecting a filename )

The second and more severe problem is that some drives are not recognized by the program. The reason is unknown to me because all my desktops and laptops which are accessible to me are working fine. I don't even know if it has something to with SATA, specific drive types, windows drivers or whatever.

Please do not expect me to buy something on my costs even if the donations would be sufficient - and indeed they are not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax_Undone View Post
If not is the source code available cause there are a few things I would like to change....
Would you release the source for free?

p.s. yes, the geocites site is down since one year...
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Last edited by marsoupilami; 6th December 2010 at 21:40.
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