MB-Tree

[egrimisu]

It is advantageous to use mb-tree when using crf, will it get a smaller file resulting the same video quality? i'm encoding an anime, Heidi remastered edition exaclty.

[nm]

Originally Posted by egrimisu

It is advantageous to use mb-tree when using crf

Certainly!

will it get a smaller file resulting the same video quality?

Quality/bitrate should be better, but you may need to adjust CRF to get about the same quality or the same bitrate as previously.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by egrimisu

It is advantageous to use mb-tree when using crf, will it get a smaller file resulting the same video quality?

As nm already said, you should be able to get away with a lower bitrate for the "similar" visual quality, but you may have to re-adjust your CRF value for that.

Easiest method to compare "MB-Tree -vs- No MB-Tree" is making two encodes at the same target bitrate (2-Pass mode!) and then compare the results visually.

(Of course you must pick a "reasonable" target bitrate for such test. If the "No MB-Tree" encode looks great already, there isn't much to gain for MB-Tree)

Originally Posted by egrimisu

i'm encoding an anime, Heidi remastered edition exaclty.

MB-Tree should be especially helpful for Anime. Look at this 67 kbps example:
http://x264.nl/developers/Dark_Shika...rateanime.html

[egrimisu]

thanks guys.

[Firebird]

I was bored enough to reencode losslessmaikaze with latest build.

http://www.mediafire.com/?735o5zuu5kazysg

[egrimisu]

thanks. i got the ideea but it seems that even at good bitrate grains are washed out, when encoding with no-mbtree thinks look more transparent with the source.

[nm]

What settings are you using exactly in both cases?

[egrimisu]

--no-mbtree --qcomp 0.8 --aq-strength 0.7 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --thread-input --level 4.1 --merange 64 --ref 16 --rc-lookahead 150 --fade-compensate 0.8 --deblock -2:-2 --no-dct-decimate --no-fast-pskip --keyint 240 --min-keyint 24

and

--qcomp 0.8 --aq-strength 0.7 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --thread-input --level 4.1 --merange 64 --ref 16 --rc-lookahead 150 --fade-compensate 0.8 --deblock -2:-2 --no-dct-decimate --no-fast-pskip --keyint 240 --min-keyint 24

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by egrimisu

--no-mbtree --qcomp 0.8 --aq-strength 0.7 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --thread-input --level 4.1 --merange 64 --ref 16 --rc-lookahead 150 --fade-compensate 0.8 --deblock -2:-2 --no-dct-decimate --no-fast-pskip --keyint 240 --min-keyint 24

and

--qcomp 0.8 --aq-strength 0.7 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --thread-input --level 4.1 --merange 64 --ref 16 --rc-lookahead 150 --fade-compensate 0.8 --deblock -2:-2 --no-dct-decimate --no-fast-pskip --keyint 240 --min-keyint 24

First of all "--no-fast-pskip" is a placebo option. See:
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...29&postcount=7

Moreover "--qcomp" is something you shouldn't touch.

[egrimisu]

Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR

First of all "--no-fast-pskip" is a placebo option. See:
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...29&postcount=7

Moreover "--qcomp" is something you shouldn't touch.

i saw you had a somkind of x264 parameters explaination manual on your web site that is down, could so send it to me, i would like to read more. It seems that i miss a lot of thing and i would be better reading more than disturbing people .

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by egrimisu

i saw you had a somkind of x264 parameters explaination manual on your web site that is down, could so send it to me, i would like to read more.

Have a look here:
http://avidemux.org/admWiki/doku.php?id=tutorial:h.264

(I know that the article needs update)

[Sharktooth]

here's a list of commandline options to COMPLETELY replace yours:
--level 4.1 --preset veryslow --tune film --keyint 240 --min-keyint 24

or (if you're insane)

--level 4.1 --preset placebo --tune film --keyint 240 --min-keyint 24

if you're not satisfied by the grain retention try also --tune grain in place of --tune film

[egrimisu]

i'll give it a try see what's diferent , does the --tune film good for grainy animations?
the grain preset s good but eats a lot of bitrate that's why i'm avoiding it.

Originally Posted by Sharktooth

here's a list of commandline options to COMPLETELY replace yours:
--level 4.1 --preset veryslow --tune film --keyint 240 --min-keyint 24

or (if you're insane)

--level 4.1 --preset placebo --tune film --keyint 240 --min-keyint 24

if you're not satisfied by the grain retention try also --tune grain in place of --tune film

[nm]

Originally Posted by egrimisu

the grain preset s good but eats a lot of bitrate that's why i'm avoiding it.

Always compare quality at the same bitrate or bitrate at the same quality!

[nurbs]

--min-keyint 24 is redundant, because if you set --keyint 240 it will be set to 24 automatically.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by nm

Always compare quality at the same bitrate or bitrate at the same quality!

That plus: The "--tune grain" is for preserving grain at high bitrate encodes, where the complexity caused by random grain/noise dominates all the rest (that's why it lowers AQ strength, for example).

At medium to low bitrates you won't be able to preserve the grain, to begin with. So you'll be better off with "--tune film" in that case.

[egrimisu]

Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR

That plus: The "--tune grain" is for preserving grain at high bitrate encodes, where the complexity caused by random grain/noise dominates all the rest (that's why it lowers AQ strength, for example).

At medium to low bitrates you won't be able to preserve the grain, to begin with. So you'll be better off with "--tune film" in that case.

and what is a high bitrate for a dvd resolution film? >should 5000 be enough ?

[nm]

Originally Posted by egrimisu

and what is a high bitrate for a dvd resolution film? >should 5000 be enough ?

Should be high enough for good grain retention.

[egrimisu]

Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR

That plus: The "--tune grain" is for preserving grain at high bitrate encodes, where the complexity caused by random grain/noise dominates all the rest (that's why it lowers AQ strength, for example).

At medium to low bitrates you won't be able to preserve the grain, to begin with. So you'll be better off with "--tune film" in that case.

i have noted that with mb-tree on the encode at the same bitrate as the no-mbtree one has lower quality in dark grainy areeas, even with crf 15.

[nm]

Originally Posted by egrimisu

i have noted that with mb-tree on the encode at the same bitrate as the no-mbtree one has lower quality in dark grainy areeas, even with crf 15.

A sample clip (source and encoded video) might help with finding the cause.