I Have Published a HDR10 to HLG Converter - Page 18

Balling · 8th August 2022, 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErazorTT

On the creation side yes, I would assume that anything uses the SDK. But on the presentation side, like Software players, these must somehow implement that. I looked into the source codes of VLC / FFMPEG and mpv but have not found anything. So my current assumption is that these also don't actually apply any of the processes of the dynamic tonemapping.

libplacebo you mean, GOD, VLC does not even support Dolby vision profile 5. Also, no, libplacebo does not support dynamic metadata, good news it is applied in the very end and everything else (EL can be done too with a plugin) is done.

Balling · 8th August 2022, 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolak

It's all licensed and proprietary. So they may know it, but it's protected by licensing agreement. Dolby is always done same way and that's the whole idea of it.
Look at mpv - they may have it:
https://emby.media/community/index.p...vision-in-mpv/

Actually this may only work if your display is DV capable and certified. Idea is simple- someone has to pay Dolby licensing fees

No need for display to be certified, facepalm. Movies & TV play without an issue.

Patents you mean, ffmpeg does not care about patents and VLC is in France, where those patents cannot be used.

Balling · 8th August 2022, 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolak

I'm sure it's nothing to do with licensing

Point is - there is no official Dolby processing without licensing.

And in some cases like in all Blu-ray players (all of them have broken low latency Dolby vision, but standard dolby vision is good) at all.

Balling · 8th August 2022, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranceBB

Dolby stuff have always been a pain to handle and after creating proprietary stuff with audio, now they're fiddling with video too. (T_T)

It took ages for the open source community to decode proprietary audio codecs like DolbyE (and the current ffmpeg implementation is far from ideal and only works with the u8 workaround which made me write several lines of code cross-checking with mediainfo given that ffprobe cannot even recognize DolbyE in an mxf container) and now they're back with DolbyED2 Atmos (currently impossible to decode) and DolbyVision profiles (also currently impossible to decode).
Best case scenario, they're just using the 12bit dual layer profile so that it's H.265 10bit PQ + metadata layer to create the 12bit and we can still watch the content by ignoring the proprietary Dolby Vision metadata layer. Worse case scenario: they're using the Dolby Vision Proprietary colorspace like dvhe0509 and we won't be able to see the content correctly (although there's been a recent attempt with libplacebo in VLC, MPV and Avisynth to tackle it).

Dolby e-destribution v2 Atmos samples welcome on ffmpeg bug tracker.

"they're using the Dolby Vision Proprietary colorspace like dvhe0509 and"

That was implemented in full. PQ 12 bit mapping would be good though.

FranceBB · 8th August 2022, 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balling

Dolby e-destribution v2 Atmos samples welcome on ffmpeg bug tracker.

Do you already have a ticket I can upload them to or do I have to open a new one?

Balling · 8th August 2022, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranceBB

Do you already have a ticket I can upload them to or do I have to open a new one?

A new one of course.

FranceBB · 8th August 2022, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balling

A new one of course.

https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/9864

Balling · 6th September 2022, 14:26

It looks like after lastest commit that finally fixed top-left chroma siting of EL, we can now safely merge FEL and BL. Nice. https://github.com/erazortt/DoViBake...1775d0ffa03528

How would you even check FEL yourself?? I have ABSOLUTELY no idea, root access to my C9 may allow that, but I am not quite sure.

I am certainly not checking FEL by just eyeballing it...

No Dolby tools I know of will allow to merge FEL just like that.

frank · 28th September 2022, 12:32

There is a new challenge for correct conversion: the movie Heat (1995), released in August on UHD disk. But the movie is too dark, they totally screwed up reference white.

I have measured max.cll =130, and someone 80,20,
Web source 167,57.

Then I have generated a lut3d with -m 130 -l 5.66 for HLG conversion. 5.66 means 2.5 stops more brightness. Results are good but I'm not sure.

Any experience or ideas?

wswartzendruber · 28th September 2022, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank

There is a new challenge for correct conversion: the movie Heat (1995), released in August on UHD disk. But the movie is too dark, they totally screwed up reference white.

I have measured max.cll =130, and someone 80,20,
Web source 167,57.

Then I have generated a lut3d with -m 130 -l 5.66 for HLG conversion. 5.66 means 2.5 stops more brightness. Results are good but I'm not sure.

Any experience or ideas?

Going by your command line there, the movie grading is a disaster.

I might pick it up just to see how bad it really is. So far, Alita: Battle Angel is the worst I've run into simply because it's a direct cinema XYZ transfer to PQ with botched metadata.

EDIT: Wait a sec...130 for MaxCLL? This movie is also a naïve XYZ transfer. Here's your command line:

pq2hlg -s 65 -r 48 -m 130 heat.cube

frank · 28th September 2022, 20:36

Then -l = 203/48 = 4.23 equals -r 48
right?
Thanks, I'll test again.

wswartzendruber · 29th September 2022, 15:28

Yes. --ref-white and --lum-scale are mutually exclusive and end up setting the same internal value.

-r 48 and -l 4.23 are principally the same.

frank · 30th September 2022, 08:54

Great, William, that's it, it worked with -r 48!

Now the movie looks fine.
And that morons still sell the messed up uhd for 30 Eur.

frank · 30th September 2022, 09:24

I'm using mpv on my notebook (500nit FHD+ display) to watch the conversion. It has excellent tone mapping but you have to set it yourself for best colors.
For portable using create the folder mpv/portable_config/ and copy the files:input.conf, mpv.conf
Edit mpv.conf:

Code:

vo=gpu-next
hwdec=auto-safe
tone-mapping=bt.2390
hdr-compute-peak=no

You'll get excellent HLG/HDR tone mapping. No brightness flickering at start-stop.
For more settings see the manual in /mpv/doc/.
vlc is also good but doesn't have that many options.
___________________
Dell XPS 15 9510, Win10 Pro

FranceBB · 30th September 2022, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by wswartzendruber

Alita: Battle Angel is the worst I've run into simply because it's a direct cinema XYZ transfer to PQ with botched metadata.

Wait a sec...130 for MaxCLL? This movie is also a naïve XYZ transfer.

Yep. Looks like is more common than it seems

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank

And that morons still sell the messed up uhd for 30 Eur.

The thing is that there's nothing wrong in using the DCP transfer to create the UHD-BD version, but metadata MUST be right and that's unfortunately something they got wrong...

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank

vlc is also good but doesn't have that many options.

Yeah, I use MPV as well, it's the best.
The only time I use VLC is when my poor computer struggles with decoding and I'm willing to accept a quality reduction as long as I can still watch it in real time...
But yeah, if I had infinite computational power, I would totally use MPV for everything.

wswartzendruber · 11th October 2022, 00:46

I have begun to experiment with using skin tones to set reference white. I'm going to throw a few Zack Snyder movies at this technique to see how robust it really is.

frank · 5th November 2022, 16:37

Next example of wrong UHD mastering.

Top Gun: Maverick UHD 2022
max-cll 617,496
Release is too dark. Again they mismatched the white level.
I found that -r 100 for HLG is comparable to the BD bt709.

So it is created for DCP 100 nits, EOTF PQ, P3.
What do you think?

wswartzendruber · 6th November 2022, 16:53

I don't have Maverick yet, but if they put reference white at 100 nits, that is actually correct. Well, depending on your point of view.

HDR10 is static metadata around either ST.2084 or ST.2086. And it's one of those that says reference white should be at 100 nits in a reference environment.

Well, the ITU came in later and did their own tests and determined that reference white should be at 200 nits in a reference environment. So their BT.2408 paper says to put it at 203 nits, as this corresponds to 75% HLG, which is where reference white is at that format.

frank · 7th November 2022, 14:12

OK.
My "reference environment" is the living room and tv, not a dark basement. I think 90% of viewers don't sit in the dark to watch a movie on tv. UHD publishers don't get it.
That's why I convert to HLG.
And 200nits look better on my notebook too.

wswartzendruber · 7th November 2022, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank

I think 90% of viewers don't sit in the dark to watch a movie on tv. UHD publishers don't get it.

This is half the reason HLG was created to begin with.

6th September 2022, 14:26	#348 \| Link
Balling Registered User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 541	It looks like after lastest commit that finally fixed top-left chroma siting of EL, we can now safely merge FEL and BL. Nice. https://github.com/erazortt/DoViBake...1775d0ffa03528 How would you even check FEL yourself?? I have ABSOLUTELY no idea, root access to my C9 may allow that, but I am not quite sure. I am certainly not checking FEL by just eyeballing it... No Dolby tools I know of will allow to merge FEL just like that. Last edited by Balling; 6th September 2022 at 14:33.

28th September 2022, 12:32	#349 \| Link
frank Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: https://t.me/pump_upp Posts: 811	There is a new challenge for correct conversion: the movie Heat (1995), released in August on UHD disk. But the movie is too dark, they totally screwed up reference white. I have measured max.cll =130, and someone 80,20, Web source 167,57. Then I have generated a lut3d with -m 130 -l 5.66 for HLG conversion. 5.66 means 2.5 stops more brightness. Results are good but I'm not sure. Any experience or ideas? Last edited by frank; 28th September 2022 at 12:34.

28th September 2022, 20:36	#351 \| Link
frank Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: https://t.me/pump_upp Posts: 811	Then -l = 203/48 = 4.23 equals -r 48 right? Thanks, I'll test again. Last edited by frank; 28th September 2022 at 20:42.

30th September 2022, 08:54	#353 \| Link
frank Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: https://t.me/pump_upp Posts: 811	Great, William, that's it, it worked with -r 48! Now the movie looks fine. And that morons still sell the messed up uhd for 30 Eur. Last edited by frank; 30th September 2022 at 09:45.

30th September 2022, 09:24	#354 \| Link
frank Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: https://t.me/pump_upp Posts: 811	I'm using mpv on my notebook (500nit FHD+ display) to watch the conversion. It has excellent tone mapping but you have to set it yourself for best colors. For portable using create the folder mpv/portable_config/ and copy the files:input.conf, mpv.conf Edit mpv.conf: Code: vo=gpu-next hwdec=auto-safe tone-mapping=bt.2390 hdr-compute-peak=no You'll get excellent HLG/HDR tone mapping. No brightness flickering at start-stop. For more settings see the manual in /mpv/doc/. vlc is also good but doesn't have that many options. ___________________ Dell XPS 15 9510, Win10 Pro Last edited by frank; 30th September 2022 at 09:43.

29th September 2022, 15:28	#352 \| Link
wswartzendruber hlg-tools Maintainer Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 413	Yes. --ref-white and --lum-scale are mutually exclusive and end up setting the same internal value. -r 48 and -l 4.23 are principally the same.

11th October 2022, 00:46	#356 \| Link
wswartzendruber hlg-tools Maintainer Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 413	I have begun to experiment with using skin tones to set reference white. I'm going to throw a few Zack Snyder movies at this technique to see how robust it really is.

5th November 2022, 16:37	#357 \| Link
frank Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: https://t.me/pump_upp Posts: 811	Next example of wrong UHD mastering. Top Gun: Maverick UHD 2022 max-cll 617,496 Release is too dark. Again they mismatched the white level. I found that -r 100 for HLG is comparable to the BD bt709. So it is created for DCP 100 nits, EOTF PQ, P3. What do you think? Last edited by frank; 5th November 2022 at 16:53.

6th November 2022, 16:53	#358 \| Link
wswartzendruber hlg-tools Maintainer Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 413	I don't have Maverick yet, but if they put reference white at 100 nits, that is actually correct. Well, depending on your point of view. HDR10 is static metadata around either ST.2084 or ST.2086. And it's one of those that says reference white should be at 100 nits in a reference environment. Well, the ITU came in later and did their own tests and determined that reference white should be at 200 nits in a reference environment. So their BT.2408 paper says to put it at 203 nits, as this corresponds to 75% HLG, which is where reference white is at that format.

7th November 2022, 14:12	#359 \| Link
frank Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: https://t.me/pump_upp Posts: 811	OK. My "reference environment" is the living room and tv, not a dark basement. I think 90% of viewers don't sit in the dark to watch a movie on tv. UHD publishers don't get it. That's why I convert to HLG. And 200nits look better on my notebook too. Last edited by frank; 7th November 2022 at 14:36.