NAL HRD has been committed!

[shon3i]

I don't know which BD verifier were used by shon3i

I have both Sony and Interra, but last time i didn't checked with verifier so maybe is problem something with patch 1.1. I will test now with 1.2.

And about MinCR from specs:

Minimum compression ratio (MinCR) (Note) for Main profile and the equivalent constraint for High
profile shall be restricted as follows;
�� For Main profile level 4.1, MinCR=4 for movie stream, MinCR=2 for still picture
�� For High profile level 4.1, the same semantic constraint as described above shall be applied.
�� For other levels of High profile, the same semantic constraint on MinCR for Main profile shall
be applied.
(Note): The semantic constraint on MinCR for Main profile is described in Annex A of the ISO/IEC
14496-10[11].

btw here is about for pict_struct_present_flag

• pic_struct (in Picture timing SEI) shall be present if frame_mbs_only_flag in SPS is set to 0.
pic_struct_present_flag shall be set to 1 to satisfy this restriction.

Btw so we always must use --pict-struct ? is this something changed, because earler version don't have this command and stream came out with this assumed. I think, this should be always on since is mandatory for Blu-Ray

[kieranrk]

Originally Posted by shon3i

btw here is about for pict_struct_present_flag

..

Btw so we always must use --pict-struct ? is this something changed, because earler version don't have this command and stream came out with this assumed.

In progressive mode we set frame_mbs_only_flag to 1 so pic_struct is not necessary.

In the past pic_struct was on automatically with interlaced. Now it only turns on automatically if you use pulldown. I've changed it to be on in interlaced mode.

Originally Posted by mp3dom

About the third error, I want to say that this error appear even on encodes made by CineVision or the Scenarist Still Image Encoder. I think that this error could be ignored...

Yes that error is wrong. The first one is also wrong. Dark Shikari also tried that verifier a while ago and it kept claiming things that were clearly not true.

[mp3dom]

With 1.21 patch the problem of "Compression Ratio (CR) is less than MinCR(4)... bytes in NAL unit (xxx) more than maximum limit etc etc" still persist.

[kolak]

Originally Posted by mp3dom

I don't know which BD verifier were used by shon3i, anyway I've made an encode with x264+1.1 NAL-HRD (the version at the 1st post) on the Elephant's Dream video. Using the Interra BDQuest Verifier it gave me 3 fatal errors. I must say that Scenarist MUI Generator (and Scenarist itself) accepts and mux without problems.
I've activated the --nal-hrd, --slices 4 and --aud, fps were 24p and resolution were 1920x1080 (obviously)
The error output of BDQuest says:
- 'pict_struct_present_flag', expected (1), found (0)
- Compression Ratio (CR) is less than MinCR (4). Number of bytes in NAL unit (1096693) is more than the maximum limit (983040)
- 'slice_type' in 'I Type' picture must be (7), found (2)

Regarding the first error (pict_struct_present_flag) I've see that in this x264 version there's a specific flag (--pict-struct) that is enabled by default for interlaced footage... Could be that it is mandatory for bluray?
I've got 8 errors regarding the "Compression Ratio (CR) is less than etc. etc. etc.". In every error the NAL unit value change and it's value is always bigger than the maximum limit of 983040.
About the third error, I want to say that this error appear even on encodes made by CineVision or the Scenarist Still Image Encoder. I think that this error could be ignored...

Hope this helps!
Thanks!

3rd error seams to be Interra verifier bug- it's also reported on Cinevision and Blu-code streams.
Does Sony verifier show the same?

MUI generator does very basic checks- it can't be used to verify compliance- way not good enough.

[mp3dom]

We only have the Interra verifier and don't have the Sony. I'm more "worried" about the second (Compression Ratio) since with the CineVision encodes that error doesn't show.

[moviefan]

Originally Posted by kolak

MUI generator does very basic checks- it can't be used to verify compliance- way not good enough.

Does that mean that the x264_hrd_interlace patch might be broken too? It passed MUI Generator and thus I thought it produces BD compliant steams.

[mp3dom]

Like kolak says, the MUI generator made only a basic check and it's not reliable. Only the verifier (and not all of them, like you can see ) can validate a stream as 100% BD compliant. Also the mastering factory have it's own verifier (before pressing the BD). Don't know if it's 100% reliable, but the EclipseSuite BD it's renowned to be very strict about specs.

[shon3i]

Originally Posted by kolak

Does Sony verifier show the same?

I can test, but not until next week, because i am on short vacation, and i don't have access to BD Verifier on my work.

Originally Posted by moviefan

Does that mean that the x264_hrd_interlace patch might be broken too?

I don't think so, muxing stage do other checks like VBV and HRD VBV, so broken HRD will affect on muxing. I saw many streams which not pass muxing in scenarist even some are demuxed from original titles.

Anyway did we sure that many DVD's today are 100% DVD compilant, and now many broken streams work on most standalones

I want to say both Verifiers maybe are not good and have bugs

[kolak]

Originally Posted by shon3i

I can test, but not until next week, because i am on short vacation, and i don't have access to BD Verifier on my work.

I don't think so, muxing stage do other checks like VBV and HRD VBV, so broken HRD will affect on muxing. I saw many streams which not pass muxing in scenarist even some are demuxed from original titles.

Anyway did we sure that many DVD's today are 100% DVD compilant, and now many broken streams work on most standalones

I want to say both Verifiers maybe are not good and have bugs

There are lots DVDs, which are out of DVD spec, but mainly because of lack of knowledge or because some people just don't care. It's also because there are many DVD authoring softwares which don't produce fully compliant projects and again even if authors know about it, they just don't care (because client doesn't care and wants everything as cheap as possible). There are also many well authored DVDs, which don't work on some players, because these players (even if they have official DVD-Video logo on them) never went through any compatibility checks or test. These players should not be on the market or at least they should not have DVD logo- it's kind of crime

Interra verifier is not very reliable (there are still many missing features). Sony verifier is an "old" software and way more reliable, so it's the best to use this one to check x264 streams.

[rack04]

Version 1.21 does not patch correctly the latest git. I get 6 failed hunks.

[kieranrk]

Originally Posted by rack04

Version 1.21 does not patch correctly the latest git. I get 6 failed hunks.

I'll upload the fixed patch in a few minutes.

[Emulgator]

BTW: Sony Vegas 9.0c MPEG-4 Encoder .avc outputs pic_struct_present =1.

http://doom10.org/index.php?topic=7.0

Post 18, last screenshot. (Sony Vegas Header SPS bottom)

[shon3i]

Originally Posted by Emulgator

BTW: Sony Vegas 9.0c MPEG-4 Encoder .avc outputs pic_struct_present =1.

http://doom10.org/index.php?topic=7.0

Post 18, last screenshot. (Sony Vegas Header SPS bottom)

In bd specs clearly stay "pic_struct (in Picture timing SEI) shall be present if frame_mbs_only_flag in SPS is set to 0", frame_mbs_only is 1 for progressive encodes.

[kieranrk]

Just use --pic-struct if for whatever reason the program you use wants it.

[mp3dom]

Correct me if I'm wrong: the 'picture structure' field could have different values for what I've read... like (i.e., dunno if it's wrong or not, i don't have the specs) 3 for TFF or 4 for BFF. In case of a progressive encode the --pic-struct parameter write 1?
Latest question: the 1.22 patch tries in some way to fix the 'problem' regarding MinCR? I can try to encode again and redo the verification pass if necessary otherwise I'll wait for anoter patch version (I don't have a performant CPU, so I need a bit of time)
Thank you very much!

[kieranrk]

Originally Posted by mp3dom

Correct me if I'm wrong: the 'picture structure' field could have different values for what I've read... like (i.e., dunno if it's wrong or not, i don't have the specs) 3 for TFF or 4 for BFF. In case of a progressive encode the --pic-struct parameter write 1?

Latest question: the 1.22 patch tries in some way to fix the 'problem' regarding MinCR? I can try to encode again and redo the verification pass if necessary otherwise I'll wait for anoter patch version (I don't have a performant CPU, so I need a bit of time)
Thank you very much!

For progressive the value of pic_struct is 0.

I'm almost certain this 'problem' with MinCR is a mistake by the validator.

[rack04]

V1.22

patch: Unexpectedly ends in the middle of line
patch: **** only garbage was found in the patch input.

[Emulgator]

Reading H.264 further, but well, I will rather post that without my conclusions, I have none at the moment ;-)
Hopefully it helps developers and the people who have verifiers...

frame_mbs_only_flag equal to 0 specifies that coded pictures of the coded video sequence may either be coded fields or coded frames.
frame_mbs_only_flag equal to 1 specifies that every coded picture of the coded video sequence is a coded frame containing only frame macroblocks.

When the value of profile_idc does not indicate conformance to any of the profiles specified in Annex A
and vui_parameters_present_flag is equal to 1,
timing_info_present_flag shall be equal to 0,
nal_hrd_parameters_present_flag shall be equal to 0,
vcl_hrd_parameters_present_flag shall be equal to 0,
and pic_struct_present_flag shall be equal to 0.

When the value of profile_idc does indicate conformance to one or more of the profiles specified in Annex A
and vui_parameters_present_flag is equal to 1,
the values of
timing_info_present_flag,
num_units_in_tick,
time_scale,
fixed_frame_rate_flag,
nal_hrd_parameters_present_flag,
vcl_hrd_parameters_present_flag,
low_delay_hrd_flag,
pic_struct_present_flag
and the values of syntax elements included in the hrd_parameters( ) syntax structures,
when present,
shall be such that the bitstream activating the sequence parameter set
is conforming to one or more of the profiles specified in Annex A.

pic_struct_present_flag equal to 1 specifies that picture timing SEI messages (subclause D.2.2) are present that include the pic_struct syntax element.
pic_struct_present_flag equal to 0 specifies that the pic_struct syntax element is not present in picture timing SEI messages.
When pic_struct_present_flag is not present, its value shall be inferred to be equal to 0.

D.2.2 Picture timing SEI message semantics
The presence of picture timing SEI message in the bitstream is specified as follows.
– If CpbDpbDelaysPresentFlag is equal to 1 or pic_struct_present_flag is equal to 1,
one picture timing SEI message shall be present in every access unit of the coded video sequence.
– Otherwise (CpbDpbDelaysPresentFlag is equal to 0 and pic_struct_present_flag is equal to 0),
no picture timing SEI messages shall be present in any access unit of the coded video sequence.

Table D-1 – Interpretation of pic_struct
Value -> Indicated display of picture, Restrictions; NumClockTS
0 -> frame -> field_pic_flag shall be 0; NumClockTS=1
1 -> top field ->field_pic_flag shall be 1, bottom_field_flag shall be 0; NumClockTS=1
2 -> bottom field ->field_pic_flag shall be 1, bottom_field_flag shall be 1; NumClockTS=1
3 -> top field, bottom field, in that order -> field_pic_flag shall be 0; NumClockTS=2
4 -> bottom field, top field, in that order -> field_pic_flag shall be 0; NumClockTS=2
5 -> top field, bottom field, top field repeated, in that order -> field_pic_flag shall be 0; NumClockTS=3
6 -> bottom field, top field, bottom field repeated, in that order -> field_pic_flag shall be 0; NumClockTS=3
7 -> frame doubling -> field_pic_flag shall be 0, fixed_frame_rate_flag shall be 1; NumClockTS=2
8 -> frame tripling -> field_pic_flag shall be 0, fixed_frame_rate_flag shall be 1; NumClockTS=3
9-15 -> Reserved

[kieranrk]

Just out of interest does Blu-ray let you code 1080p25 without using interlacing? Can you use 1080p25 will pic_struct or something?

Also is there anything about NumClockTS?

[Rumbah]

I've seen a German BluRay with 1080p25 if i remember correctly, but I don't know which one it was. If it's important I can search for it .