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13th October 2024, 20:25 | #1 | Link |
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S-Video input video artifacts
Hi, I'm trying to capture a VHS. I have an August VGB100 Video Capture device:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/august-capt.../dp/B008F0SARC It has two inputs, composite and S-Video. I understand S-Video offers a higher quality, so I'm trying to use that one to capture. However, compared to composite input, I see some weird artifacts on the video: Composite: S-Video: Sorry about frames not being the same, but I couldn't pause the VHS. But I see the effect is clearly visible. The composite signal may have lower quality, but at least it seems somewhat clean. I have tried with different S-Video cables and also with another capture device, a Hauppauge USB-Live 2, and the results are the same. However, I have also tried the same cables and the same capture devices with a Sony Hi8 HandyCam and the effect is less visible with the August device, and nonexistent with the Hauppauge device. So now I suspect of two things: the VHS player itself, or the SCART to S-Video/Composite device I use, something like this: Where do you think the problem could be? Am I in the right direction? What is the origin of this effect? Thanks in advance! |
13th October 2024, 23:07 | #2 | Link |
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Your VHS player seems not to support S-Video but Composite only (or the S-Video is not wired to the SCART plug). What model is your player?
If it would support S-Video it would have an S-Video port in addition to the SCART - and you wouldn't need the SCART adapter. Your adapter cannot convert a Composite signal to S-Video. The S-video signal (Y/C wires) must be provided by the player like your Hi8 camera apparently does. Last edited by Sharc; 13th October 2024 at 23:21. |
14th October 2024, 08:40 | #3 | Link | |
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I have actually search for VHS players with native S-Video ports in second hand shops here in my city, but all the players I found had only SCART ports, nothing more. Are the ones with S-Video rarer? Last edited by eXtremeDevil; 14th October 2024 at 08:43. |
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14th October 2024, 12:58 | #4 | Link | |||
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Only S-VHS recorders/players will provide S-Video which is wired to specific pins on the SCART plug (Europe) and/or have a separate S-Video connector. Again: What is your player model (brand, type)? Does it have a menu setting for "S-Video"? Check the manual. Quote:
Maybe take a look here: https://vcrshop.com/category/vcr/ Look for 'S-VHS' or 'SUPER-VHS' devices. But first read the manual of your equipment to see if it is S-VHS compliant or VHS only. Check the menu settings. Edit: If you have to live with Composite use a capture device with a good luma/chroma separating filter. I don't know the August VGB100. The USB-Live 2 is also no masterpiece in this respect. The I-O Data GV-USB2 performs better in this respect. Last edited by Sharc; 14th October 2024 at 13:28. |
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14th October 2024, 13:06 | #5 | Link | ||
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Sorry, I forgot to mention the model. It seems to be a Phillips VR 550. I don't have the remote right now, so I cannot access the menu, but after your explanations, I doubt it has S-Video capability. Quote:
I'm not sure I get this. If my VCR does not have S-Video capability, how can I see the image? Is it something like "some pins are missing so you see something, but with artifacts, because of the specific S-Video pins not being present? BTW, another question not related to this topic (sorry): Where does the wobble effect come from? I mean the typical, not a hard one that makes the video impossible to watch. I tried to find info but I had no success. Is it the VCR motor, or is it the tape? Just curious about this. Thanks in advance! |
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14th October 2024, 13:43 | #6 | Link |
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The Philips VR500 is VHS only. No S-video capability.
The wobbling comes from time base errors (old tapes, poor/worn equipment ...). It can be suppressed by using a TBC (TimeBaseCorrector) function as provided internally by high end S-VHS players, or by using extra external equipment. A low cost variant for stabilizing the picture would be to use a (recommended) DVD-recorder in passthrough mode, means in an arrangement like your player -> DVD recorder in passthrough with Composite IN -> S-video OUT -> capture device S-video IN. Last edited by Sharc; 14th October 2024 at 13:47. |
14th October 2024, 14:22 | #9 | Link | ||
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Can you answer my last question about the other issue, please? Quote:
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14th October 2024, 14:39 | #10 | Link |
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Yes. VCR to DVD recorder via SCART. Study the principles
As I wrote: Electromagnetic spillover (crosstalk) from composite signals to the S-wires of the cable. Check the wiring of the SCART connector and the wiring of the adapter. I don't have the circuit diagrams and the wiring details of your equipment, what gets looped to where etc. You can find a lot of info about VHS capturing at the german gleitz forum as well. https://gleitz-info.translate.goog/f..._x_tr_pto=wapp |
14th October 2024, 17:54 | #12 | Link |
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You get these artifacts when you inject a Composite signal into the S-video port (Y wire) of your capture device. Apparently your VHS player (plus adapter) simply loop the Composite signal to the Y wire of the S-video connector or the Y pin of the SCART connector
https://mega.nz/file/WJkE2STR#6GNZYO...9WmH8gvtyOl3rA Last edited by Sharc; 14th October 2024 at 19:05. Reason: link to picture added |
19th October 2024, 19:30 | #14 | Link | |
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One question, would these VHS to DVR connections result in the same quality? SCART out -> SCART to composite adapter -> Composite in SCART out -> SCART in SCART out with SCART to composite cable -> Composite in Thanks in advance. |
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20th October 2024, 09:55 | #15 | Link |
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Passthrough is happening all the time. You feed it your source signal and, alongside anything else you might be doing to it (recording it, for example) in the Pioneer, it outputs that signal at its output ports. Intended so you can monitor what you are doing.
Have you consided recording it first onto the Pioneer itself? And then extracting it by burning to a writable (I'd use a good RW so I can reuse it) disc and extract that onto your computer for any further work? |
20th October 2024, 10:33 | #16 | Link |
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Of course, I get it now, but I thought it was a special mode where the DVR would carry the signal almost "as is". What you say is true, but if I press the display button on the DVR for example, the carried VHS signal will also have the on screen info, the DVR OSD, so it is not purely the VHS signal just carried. That's why I thought it was a special passthrough mode.
I have consider it, but when recording, the quality is reduced and the video somewhat encoded. I want the pure source signal to encode it myself. |
20th October 2024, 15:17 | #17 | Link | |
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When you later burn it to a disc, you do so in "high speed" mode which does not change the video at all. Not even slightly. And when you extract it to your computer - ditto. So you have on your PC the first (digital) generation of what you recorded. Just as you would, in fact, if you captured it onto the computer. If I were to conjecture an advantage - computers are often and frequently busy doing other things you don't see. There is always the possibility that it does something over which you have no control while you are capturing but which interrupts it such that you get a glitch in your capture. (e.g. something else accesses your hard drive). Whereas a dedicated recorder has one sole purpose, is designed and optimised to do just that one thing. And it leaves you free to do something else (on your PC if you like) while that tape is playing.... |
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20th October 2024, 15:44 | #18 | Link | |
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Post processing mpeg2 recorded stuff requires re-encoding which once more is a quality hit. An option would be to use take the digitized signal from the HDMI output (if available) of the recorder. Last edited by Sharc; 20th October 2024 at 16:05. |
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20th October 2024, 16:07 | #19 | Link | |
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a) a high (max) bitrate (= high "quality") minimises these to what I'd consider practically indistinguishable from lossless b) and in any case the source here is (S-)VHS which is intrinsically a massive compromise. You can't make a silk purse, as they say. And there is no such thing as lossless capture. The very fact of sampling an analog signal, regardless of where it's done, is liable to cause something. Now, how good is that capture card/dongle? |
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20th October 2024, 16:45 | #20 | Link | |
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I agree though that it's a simple and (widely) fool-proof process for obtaining mediocre satisfactory results. To each his own |
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