Will the ASS Specification ever be updated ?

[amayra]

ASS v5.0 is a concept currently in the planning phase within the libass dev team. It would be triggered by a version header, and would change parsing to allow new tags to be used, and old VSFilter-emulation quirks to be skipped. The current draft of the specification is available [on this wiki]

ASS v5 no longer being developed nothing since last announcement in 2014 by LibAss Team
Might we ever see any new features ?

[huhn]

i prefer a working current spec over a new one.

[amayra]

Originally Posted by huhn

i prefer a working current spec over a new one.

but there Rendering Differences between libass and vsfilter
we need to get rid of VSFilter emulation/quirks to keep to libass updated
ps: i try to make fork of AssFilterMod i end up with more difference between libass and vsfilter

[huhn]

so all old file stay broken?

vsfilter is the reference this can't be changed anymore.

so you have to create anew spec. convince every one to use it convince all player that are using vsfilter code to use libass filter or a new code and in the end it will only work on new files.
so we need to fix assv4 and assv5 code this doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me.

[amayra]

Originally Posted by huhn

vsfilter is the reference this can't be changed anymore.

that is why libass team need stop deal vsfilter , vsfilter is dead and i think people need to stop use it as renderer
well if you try to use it with avs+ you well have so much issues with high depth , and if you not convinced yet try to look in source code and How much is messy
ps : sorry for my bad english

[huhn]

the problem isn't about vsfilter and using libass doesn't fix anything.

the problem are the old and current ass files that need to work.
creating a new ass spec doesn't make them work. it would only make new files work if you get all the creator on the new boat.

xy vsfilter should work fine in avisynth plus.
MPC-HC and MPC-BE are using vsfilter code and are changing it if needed so it is not totally dead.
kasper93 was improving the internal subtitle render in mpc-hc to a level close to xy subfilter.

[Jamaika]

Originally Posted by amayra

ASS v5 no longer being developed nothing since last announcement in 2014 by LibAss Team
Might we ever see any new features ?

Interesting topic. Alone I thought about why works on the project was halted.
In my opinion it was the lack of interest of software companies. High costs of adapting, and I think that too much influence destruction on the development of bluray.
I mean such things as interactive attachments, create menus, subtitles, animated fonts, links to websites.
It also requires additional memory when playing movies. At one time producers are not thinking about these issues.

[amayra]

i agree with you it would only make new files work but quirks that LibAss Team do for vsfilter is just same , bytheway i think is ASS have tag ver in the file :

ScriptType: v4.00+

i believe this will make old and new one separate

[huhn]

yes the new spec is supposed to be trigger with a header with the ass version.

ass v5.0 needs this "[Script Info 5.0]" as the first line just read the "specs".

[amayra]

Originally Posted by huhn

yes the new spec is supposed to be trigger with a header with the ass version.

ass v5.0 needs this "[Script Info 5.0]" as the first line just read the "specs".

This is supposed to make libass treat ass5 different way Right ?

[huhn]

the spec is not complete but yes you will need a new renderer.

so it is not far away from a new spec like this: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=169951

[amayra]

l take your word for it and give up , to be honest i went to spare some time to help frameservers/fansubs Community to develop Custom Renderer but without lack of interest my efforts will be in vain just like water under bridge
i finally i came to hate vsfilter (thank you Cyberbeing)

[Ghitulescu]

The BD subtitles and their rendering machine do I think all that ASS provides. I am not sure whether ASS allows for subtitle superposition (overlapping subtitles), but this is allowed in BD along with other features.
Most people do not need all of its features, and the most interesting of them, like animations, require a lot of power.

[amayra]

Originally Posted by Ghitulescu

The BD subtitles and their rendering machine do I think all that ASS provides. I am not sure whether ASS allows for subtitle superposition (overlapping subtitles), but this is allowed in BD along with other features.
Most people do not need all of its features, and the most interesting of them, like animations, require a lot of power.

PGS is just image subs , The problem here is Subtitle Renderer and new logic for rendering

[huhn]

Originally Posted by Ghitulescu

The BD subtitles and their rendering machine do I think all that ASS provides. I am not sure whether ASS allows for subtitle superposition (overlapping subtitles), but this is allowed in BD along with other features.
Most people do not need all of its features, and the most interesting of them, like animations, require a lot of power.

you can create overlapping subtitles and even the media player in TVs support ass not sure if this us done properly or not. it's not like animated subtitles eat a lot of processing power it all depends on how they are animated.

[amayra]

I think i find good example for what i try to say here :
Libass team deal with vsfilter like programer try add features without break compatibility winXP
anyway huhn thank you for correcting my mistake

[Ghitulescu]

ASS is one of the rarest formats I've seen in the description of mediaplayers, be they in BD/DVDplayers, in TV sets or elsewhere - they are mostly supported in software-based solutions like mediatanks.
On the contrary, other formats, like PGS, have hardware support. Some, like SRT are not even supported in full.
I regard ASS only as an intermediate format (an editing one) before being converted into an universally accepted one, like PGS for BD.
As for animations, yes, the amount of power may not be great and surely depends on how the HW cope with, but one should remember that the DVD format required only a small part of the video packets to be encrypted, for the computing power of the standalones was very low - not 5 years later, the cracking of the CSS and the subsequent decoding was done in splitseconds.... A heavily java-based BD renders even a current BD player frozen-like for good dozens of seconds, let alone one of the first players, that needed probably minutes...
Power is relative, but the Microsoft syndrome has to be avoided at all costs.

[huhn]

they mostly are using ssa as the name not ass or assa.

i wouldn't be shocked if the ass support is not 100% correct too in media players and they only support none animated versions.

this doesn't change that ass is used in streaming platforms without animations and ass is heavily used for fan subbing.
it doesn't need to work on a media player, dvd/bd-player or TV. it is a subtitle formate that has high quality and freedom but animations need a none toaster PC.

and the microsoft syndrome is?

[Ghitulescu]

Originally Posted by huhn

and the microsoft syndrome is?

Require higher HW specs, then fill them up, require again even more HW specs, again fill them up, and so on... Apparently, those 640kB could not satisfy even the speaker of those words ...

[huhn]

and what has microsoft to do with his?