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Old 4th June 2021, 23:45   #30661  |  Link
spotswood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonca View Post
In a BD the thd and ac3 tracks are "interleaved" into 1 track.
When remuxed to mkv you will get a thd and an ac3 track.
Two audio tracks in the mkv
Yes, I understand this. It's not the problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post
Yes, but the AC3 core shouldn't be mono.
It's the THD track that is being converted to Mono, not the core track. Log from my post above:

[12:06:09] Importing MKV: 1917_4K_HDR
- Collecting audio/video streams from source...
- Converting audio, Track #2, THD to AC3...
- Building pseudo-BD source structure...
[12:47:02] Video import completed successfully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonca View Post
Unless the original core was mono
It's not, the core is AC3 Multi-Ch @ 640...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggtop View Post
I suggest you compare the audio characterics of both, the original and your mkv e.g. with MediaInfo and come back with the results.

ggtop
You are suggesting I compare the audio characteristics of a mono track to a multi-ch surround track? There is no comparison...
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Old 4th June 2021, 23:47   #30662  |  Link
spotswood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
I looked at the code and it specifically excludes printing that line when in MOVIE-ONLY mode. Now I have to figure out whether I did that for a reason -- or was just goofy that day.

EDIT: I realize now that I used the wrong variable for that check. It should have suppressed the message for ALTERNATE output, not all MOVIE-ONLY encodes. I fixed it for the next release.
No problem, and thank you...
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Old 5th June 2021, 05:13   #30663  |  Link
MrVideo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spotswood View Post
It's the THD track that is being converted to Mono, not the core track. Log from my post above:

[12:06:09] Importing MKV: 1917_4K_HDR
- Collecting audio/video streams from source...
- Converting audio, Track #2, THD to AC3...
- Building pseudo-BD source structure...
[12:47:02] Video import completed successfully.
You are misunderstanding the log entry. Track #2 on the disc is a THD track and it is being converted to AC3. It should do so by extracting the AC3 core.

Again, use MediaInfo to look at the specs for the the THD audio track.
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Old 5th June 2021, 22:05   #30664  |  Link
spotswood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post
You are misunderstanding the log entry. Track #2 on the disc is a THD track and it is being converted to AC3. It should do so by extracting the AC3 core.

Again, use MediaInfo to look at the specs for the the THD audio track.
OK, here you go...

MediaInfo pre reencode for my 1080p Anna MKV:
Code:
Video
ID                             : 1
Format                         : AVC
Format/Info                    : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                 : High@L4.1
Format settings                : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC         : Yes
Format settings, Reference fra : 4 frames
Codec ID                       : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                       : 1 h 58 min
Bit rate mode                  : Variable
Bit rate                       : 33.0 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate               : 35.0 Mb/s
Width                          : 1 920 pixels
Height                         : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 16:9
Frame rate mode                : Constant
Frame rate                     : 23.976 (23976/1000) FPS
Original frame rate            : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 8 bits
Scan type                      : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 0.663
Stream size                    : 27.4 GiB (88%)
Language                       : English
Default                        : Yes
Forced                         : No

Audio #1
ID                             : 2
Format                         : MLP FBA 16-ch
Format/Info                    : Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
Commercial name                : Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
Codec ID                       : A_TRUEHD
Duration                       : 1 h 58 min
Bit rate mode                  : Variable
Bit rate                       : 3 616 kb/s
Maximum bit rate               : 6 318 kb/s
Channel(s)                     : 8 channels
Channel layout                 : L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
Sampling rate                  : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                     : 1 200.000 FPS (40 SPF)
Compression mode               : Lossless
Stream size                    : 3.01 GiB (10%)
Language                       : English
Default                        : Yes
Forced                         : No
Number of dynamic objects      : 15
Bed channel count              : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration      : LFE

Audio #2
ID                             : 3
Format                         : AC-3
Format/Info                    : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name                : Dolby Digital
Format settings                : Dolby Surround EX
Codec ID                       : A_AC3
Duration                       : 1 h 58 min
Bit rate mode                  : Constant
Bit rate                       : 640 kb/s
Channel(s)                     : 6 channels
Channel layout                 : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate                  : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                     : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode               : Lossy
Stream size                    : 545 MiB (2%)
Language                       : English
Service kind                   : Complete Main
Default                        : No
Forced                         : No
.inf:

Code:
[Status]
LABEL=ANNA_1080P
VERSION=v0.61.22
SOURCE_SIZE=31433637888
SOURCE_VIDEO_SIZE=31433637888
TARGET_SIZE=26306674688
REDUCTION=.836895646050652
RESIZE_1080=0
RESIZE_1440=0
AUDIO_TO_KEEP=eng;
KEEP_HD_AUDIO=-1
SUBS_TO_KEEP=eng;
BACKUP_MODE=1
MOVIEONLY_TYPE=0
USE_LAVF=0
INSTANCES=4
DGDECNV=-1
DGDECIM=0
FRIMSOURCE=0
FFMS2=0
SSIF_MODE=0
UHD_V3_MODE=-1
QUICK=0
ENCODE_STEP=0
COMPLETED=1
REBUILD_COMPLETE=1
[00000]
AUDIO=10
PGS=1
APULLDOWN=0
S1440=0
VIDEO2=0
V2MBRATE=0
M2TS_TARGET=26306674688
RATE=27310
NSIZE=0
FLINK=0
MLINK=0
Log:

Code:
----------------------
[06/05/21] BD Rebuilder v0.61.22
[09:02:14] Source:  ANNA_1080P_00000
  - Input BD size: 29.27 GB
  - Approximate total content: [01:58:59.173]
  - Target BD size: 24.50 GB
  - Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
  - MOVIE-ONLY mode enabled
  - Quality: High Quality (Default), 1-Pass VBR
  - Decoding/Frame serving: NVENCC
  - Audio Settings: AC3=0 DTS=0 HD=1 Kbs=640
[09:02:17] PHASE ONE, Encoding
 - [09:02:17] Processing: VID_00000 (1 of 1)
 - [09:02:17] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00000]
 - [09:03:17] Reencoding video [VID_00000]
   - Source Video: MPEG-4 (AVC), 1920x1080
   - Rate/Length: 23.976fps, 171,169 frames
   - Bitrate: 27,310 Kbs
 - [09:03:17] Reencoding: VID_00000, Pass 1 of 1
 - [09:19:26] Video Encode complete
 - [09:19:26] Processing audio tracks
   - Track 4352 (eng): Keeping original audio
[09:19:26]PHASE ONE complete
[09:19:26]PHASE TWO - Rebuild Started
 - [09:19:26] Rebuilding BD file Structure
[09:20:08] - Encode and Rebuild complete
 - WORKFILES folder removed.
[09:20:09] JOB: ANNA_1080P finished.

MediaInfo post reencode to HEVC: I've bolded the Audio parts in question...

Code:
----------------------
[08:46:17] Importing MKV: ANNA_1080P
  - Collecting audio/video streams from source...
  - Converting audio, Track #2, THD to AC3...
  - Building pseudo-BD source structure...
[08:50:52] Video import completed successfully.

MediaInfo:

Video
ID                             : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID                        : 1 (0x1)
Format                         : HEVC
Format/Info                    : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                 : Main 10@L4.1@High
Codec ID                       : 36
Duration                       : 1 h 58 min
Bit rate                       : 25.0 Mb/s
Width                          : 1 920 pixels
Height                         : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 16:9
Frame rate                     : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 0.503
Stream size                    : 20.8 GiB
Color range                    : Limited
Color primaries                : BT.709
Transfer characteristics       : BT.709
Matrix coefficients            : BT.709
format_identifier              : HDMV
Source                         : 00000.m2ts / 00000.m2ts

Audio
ID                             : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID                        : 1 (0x1)
Format                         : AC-3
Format/Info                    : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name                : Dolby Digital
Codec ID                       : 129
Duration                       : 1 h 58 min
Bit rate mode                  : Constant
Bit rate                       : 640 kb/s
Channel(s)                     : 1 channel
Channel layout                 : C
Sampling rate                  : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                     : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode               : Lossy
Stream size                    : 545 MiB
Language                       : English
Service kind                   : Complete Main
bsid                           : 8
Dialog Normalization           : -31
Dialog Normalization           : -31 dB
acmod                          : 1
lfeon                          : 0
dialnorm_Average               : -31
dialnorm_Average               : -31 dB
dialnorm_Minimum               : -31
dialnorm_Minimum               : -31 dB
dialnorm_Maximum               : -31
dialnorm_Maximum               : -31 dB
dialnorm_Count                 : 1
format_identifier              : AC-3
SamplingCount_Source           : General_Duration
Duration_Source                : General_Duration
Source                         : 00000.m2ts / 00000.m2ts
Misunderstanding? Sure looks like 1 CH Mono to me. Any ideas?

Last edited by spotswood; 7th June 2021 at 00:23.
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Old 6th June 2021, 02:15   #30665  |  Link
MrVideo
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To me, you made it sound like the THD portion of the audio stream was being converted. As pointed out, the AC3 core should be extracted without any kind of recoding. You should be able to use eac3to to extract the AC3 core from the THD stream and then look at it with media info.

I would find it extremely strange that only a center channel would be placed in the lossy AC3 core and all of the other 7 channels of stuff placed in the THD objects.

It is unfortunate that mediainfo does not list the core configuration.
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Old 6th June 2021, 05:49   #30666  |  Link
spotswood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post
To me, you made it sound like the THD portion of the audio stream was being converted.
I made it sound that way because that's exactly what it's doing. - Converting audio, Track #2, THD to AC3... "Converting" NOT "extracting". You asked for MediaInfo info and I gave it to you. It's right there in the MediaInfo in Bold and white. I don't know what else to tell you. Try it yourself and see what you come up with...

Quote:
As pointed out, the AC3 core should be extracted without any kind of recoding. You should be able to use eac3to to extract the AC3 core from the THD stream and then look at it with media info.
Yes it should, but that's not what is happening. And why should I have to do that? Shouldn't BDRB handle the extraction/conversion correctly as needed on it's own?

Quote:
I would find it extremely strange that only a center channel would be placed in the lossy AC3 core and all of the other 7 channels of stuff placed in the THD objects.
Well that's why I'm reporting what I think might be a bug. Like I said, try it yourself. Import a MKV with a THD/Atmos track and see what happens. I'm tired and my brain hurts. Have a good evening everyone...
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Old 6th June 2021, 08:54   #30667  |  Link
MrVideo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spotswood View Post
I made it sound that way because that's exactly what it's doing. - Converting audio, Track #2, THD to AC3... "Converting" NOT "extracting". You asked for MediaInfo info and I gave it to you. It's right there in the MediaInfo in Bold and white. I don't know what else to tell you. Try it yourself and see what you come up with...
I see below that I missed a very valuable clue and that this is a MKV file, and not a Blu-ray M2TS. Not sure how I missed that, but I did.
Quote:
Yes it should, but that's not what is happening. And why should I have to do that? Shouldn't BDRB handle the extraction/conversion correctly as needed on it's own?
With a MKV file, the THD track from a M2TS file has already been split into the THD objects file and the AC3 core file. All BDRB needs to do is pull the core from the MKV file. That may be what it is doing and the wrong choice of words was used. I'm not sure you can do anything with the high def audio component, because what is also needed is the core component. I'll leave that to JD to explain.
Quote:
Well that's why I'm reporting what I think might be a bug. Like I said, try it yourself. Import a MKV with a THD/Atmos track and see what happens. I'm tired and my brain hurts. Have a good evening everyone...
I do not have the file you are dealing with, so I can't do any testing. Using a different MKV file containing THD audio would not be the same.

You can use the MKV toolset to create a new MKV file with only the AC3 core and see what mediainfo now reports. I know, not your job, but it would help with troubleshooting since I suspect that JD doesn't have that file either.
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Old 6th June 2021, 10:03   #30668  |  Link
tebasuna51
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Of course it is a mistery how a THD Atmos 8 channels can be converted, by ffmpeg I suposse, to an AC3 1 channel.

But, if you want an AC3, for what not select the track 3 of pre reencode mkv?
It is clearly the core of TrueHD track from m2ts's BD.
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Last edited by tebasuna51; 6th June 2021 at 10:05.
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Old 6th June 2021, 13:02   #30669  |  Link
ggtop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spotswood View Post
Misunderstanding? Sure looks like 1 CH Mono to me. Any ideas?
Hi spotswood,

it seems to me you are still selecting the wrong audio track...
Given the fact that your imported source follows a natural numbering audio #4352 is track 1 (previously borked THD) and #4353 is track 2 (AC3@640) according to your MediaInfo log.

Looking in your .inf file you are selecting track 1:
Code:
REBUILD_COMPLETE=1
[00000]
AUDIO=10
PGS=1
What does happen if you select audio track 2 BDRB should show you in the stream window?

I suggest you also disable "remove WORKFILES after rebuild" so that you have the chance to examine the temporary files afterwards. Especially AUD_00000_4352.AVS in this case.

ggtop

EDIT: Just had a look with MediaInfo into a random disc containing a THD stream:
Code:
Audio #2
ID                                       : 4353 (0x1101)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : MLP FBA AC-3 16-ch
Format/Info                              : Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
Commercial name                          : Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
Muxing mode                              : Stream extension
Codec ID                                 : 131
Duration                                 : 1 h 30 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 640 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 5 904 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 8 channels
Channel layout                           : L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossless
Stream size                              : 414 MiB (1%)
Service kind                             : Complete Main
Number of dynamic objects                : 13
Bed channel count                        : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration                : LFE
Looking into yours it seems it is indeed missing the core as gonca wrote due to MKV restrictions.

Last edited by ggtop; 6th June 2021 at 13:23.
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Old 8th June 2021, 22:11   #30670  |  Link
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Pilot error...

Hey guys... jdobbs and I had a little educational conversation and he corrected the error in my ways. Who knew you could use MakeMKV to backup to a folder! Not me! What a dumb a**... (wipes a carton of eggs off face). So please disregard my recent ramblings and I'll say it again, what a dumb a**. Crisis caused by pilot error averted... ;^)
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Old 10th June 2021, 23:59   #30671  |  Link
spotswood
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Fyi...

So just FYI and for those curious as to the source file for my previous posts, attached is the full MediaInfo from my original Anna BD that includes the THD-Atmos/core track in addition to the foreign language tracks.

So what I did originally was rip the movie only straight to MKV, keeping only the THD-Atmos/core English track, which I now know is split into 2 seperate tracks per MKV specs. When attempting to convert the movie to UHD/x265, rather than load the original disc into BDRB, I imported the previous movie only MKV into BDRB. During the import process BDRB wants to extract/convert the THD core track to AC3.

Here's where things got wonky. Since the core was already extracted in the previous rip to MKV, there is no core to extract from the THD track (I'm guessing, but what do I know). BDRB now "converts" the THD track to AC3, but converts it to Mono. That is the big mystery and I'll leave that to you and jdobbs to figure out if you want to.

It's actually moot at this point as instead of trying to import my existing MKV files to convert them to UHD/x265, I'll just start over and load the original disc into BDRB and convert from there. Hope this info helps for those interested in what is happening. Sorry for any confusion and thanks for the help provided...

EDIT: The MediaInfo is too large to include in my post so I uploaded as an attachment. I've included just the audio portion since the whole thing including the video and subs is too big. Sorry 'bout that Chief!
Attached Files
File Type: txt Anna_00757.mpls.MediaInfo2.txt (96.2 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by spotswood; 12th June 2021 at 23:32.
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Old Today, 05:00   #30672  |  Link
Lathe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spotswood View Post
So just FYI and for those curious as to the source file for my previous posts, attached is the full MediaInfo from my original Anna BD that includes the THD-Atmos/core track in addition to the foreign language tracks.

So what I did originally was rip the movie only straight to MKV, keeping only the THD-Atmos/core English track, which I now know is split into 2 seperate tracks per MKV specs. When attempting to convert the movie to UHD/x265, rather than load the original disc into BDRB, I imported the previous movie only MKV into BDRB. During the import process BDRB wants to extract/convert the THD core track to AC3.

Here's where things got wonky. Since the core was already extracted in the previous rip to MKV, there is no core to extract from the THD track (I'm guessing, but what do I know). BDRB now "converts" the THD track to AC3, but converts it to Mono. That is the big mystery and I'll leave that to you and jdobbs to figure out if you want to.

It's actually moot at this point as instead of trying to import my existing MKV files to convert them to UHD/x265, I'll just start over and load the original disc into BDRB and convert from there. Hope this info helps for those interested in what is happening. Sorry for any confusion and thanks for the help provided...

EDIT: The MediaInfo is too large to include in my post so I uploaded as an attachment. I've included just the audio portion since the whole thing including the video and subs is too big. Sorry 'bout that Chief!
I don't know if this would also help, but what I do any time I have MKV files with a THD audio track (where the core has been removed) I just run it through UsEac3to, choose the TrueHD track and select the THD+Ac3 as the output. That puts the removed core back into the THD track as it was originally. Then I just use TSMuxer to replace the now restored THD track w/core back into the BDMV format, from which BDRB can take it from there.
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