StaxRip 2.0 Support Thread - Page 111

JKyle · 2nd October 2020, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevron

Small note, Versions.txt is missing in the Apps folder.

All the versions info is relocated to the subfolder named "Conf".
You can see *.conf files there containing version/release date info for each app and filter.

44vince44 · 2nd October 2020, 20:59

yes thanks for the latest beta!

-QfG- · 12th October 2020, 19:06

Hi stax, is there any chance to add DNxHR Intermediate Output in the FFMPEG section by Encoders? You can delete the "ProRes" button, "DNxHR" is the newer Intermediate Codec.

Here the inputs for DNxHR:

Code:

-c:v dnxhd -profile:v dnxhr_lb          //Low Bandwidth. 8-bit 4:2:2 (yuv422p). Offline Quality.
-c:v dnxhd -profile:v dnxhr_sq          //Standard Quality. 8-bit 4:2:2 (yuv422p). Suitable for delivery format.
-c:v dnxhd -profile:v dnxhr_hq          //High Quality. 8-bit 4:2:2 (yuv422p)
-c:v dnxhd -profile:v dnxhr_hqx         //High Quality. 10-bit 4:2:2 (yuv422p10le). UHD/4K Broadcast-quality delivery.
-c:v dnxhd -profile:v dnxhr_444         //Finishing Quality. 10-bit 4:4:4 (yuv444p10le). Cinema-quality delivery.

I don't know if i can add that himself, if anyone has an idea, how i can add this, please tell it me.

I can't encode directly via FFMPEG, because i need some Avisynth Tweaks (Inverse Telecine)

Greetings

jlw_4049 · 12th October 2020, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by -QfG-

Hi stax, is there any chance to add DNxHR Intermediate Output in the FFMPEG section by Encoders? You can delete the "ProRes" button, "DNxHR" is the newer Intermediate Codec.

Here the inputs for DNxHR:

Code:

-c:v dnxhr_lb          //Low Bandwidth. 8-bit 4:2:2 (yuv422p). Offline Quality.

-c:v dnxhr_sq          //Standard Quality. 8-bit 4:2:2 (yuv422p). Suitable for delivery format.

-c:v dnxhr_hq          //High Quality. 8-bit 4:2:2 (yuv422p)

-c:v dnxhr_hqx         //High Quality. 10-bit 4:2:2 (yuv422p10le). UHD/4K Broadcast-quality delivery.

-c:v dnxhr_444         //Finishing Quality. 10-bit 4:4:4 (yuv444p10le). Cinema-quality delivery.

I don't know if i can add that himself, if anyone has an idea, how i can add this, please tell it me.

I can't encode directly via FFMPEG, because i need some Avisynth Tweaks (Inverse Telecine)

Greetings

I would suggest putting this on the tracker on github for a faster response

Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk

-QfG- · 12th October 2020, 19:31

Thx. Oh i see this is the wrong thread here, sorry.

jlw_4049 · 12th October 2020, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by -QfG-

Thx. Oh i see this is the wrong thread here, sorry.

Not the wrong thread, however he will look at and respond to the github issue tracker faster

Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk

stax76 · 12th October 2020, 20:07

Currently, I pause 3-6 months. I try to get more people interested maintaining it.

hevron · 13th October 2020, 01:08

I greet everyone. StaxRip-x64-2.1.4.8-Beta.
QVBR (Quality Variable bitrate using bitrate) preset for Intel H.264 does not work. This has been observed in all recent beta. Whatever high bitrate I set, the program switches to QVBR-Q (Quality Variable bitrate using quality - 23). If necessary, I will indicate the exact parameters of my files.
Also, another presets for Intel H.264: LA (VBR Lookahead), LA HRD does not work for me. If earlier it was possible to set the maximum Lookahead Depth - 100, now the launch with any settings ends in a crash: Failed to initialize encoder. : invalid video parameters. QSVEncC.exe finished with error!

Please pay attention to these problems. thanks

-QfG- · 17th October 2020, 09:37

Updates for following AVS Filter available:

TDeint v1.7
TIVTC v1.22

https://github.com/pinterf/TIVTC/releases/tag/v1.0.22b

L E G E N D · 17th October 2020, 16:01

Hi, i would like to ask for some help.

the story is that i'm trying to encode an avisynth filtered video script with NVEnc h265 in StaxRip,
i use a lot of filters to do that, as shown in script below.

i choose NVEnc to accelerate the process, because the avisynth script contains a lot of filters.

usually encoding with x264/x265 CPU costs a lot of time, then eventualy i assume using NVEnc might get the fps higher ^^

so since i'm in x64 env, i installed avisynth+ for both version 64 and 32, and added the plugins to right places,
everything works fine, i get the video preview in AVSPmod just OK.

the problem is when i start to encode the video, the fps is just the same as when i use only cpu to encode,
the GPU does nothing to speed-up the thing. i used MP_PIPELINE to create a process for each filter with max memory set to 1024 Mb,
and still i get: gpu 3% and VE 9% and fps 24 (maximum). I kept monitoring the process of MP_pipeline and noticed that cpu actes only without the gpu.

my question: is there anything to do to help accelerate the encoding of avisynth scripts with NVEnc h265/h264 ? or am i missing something??

i'll leave more details down below:

Windows 10 Pro(x64) (Build 18362)
StaxRip v2.0.8.0 Stable
NVEnc v4.68
AVSPmod V2.6.1.1 x64 and x32
MicrosoftVC++ Redistributable 2005->2019 x64 & x32
NVidia Driver v441.08

Encoder settings:

Code:

 --vbrhq 2048 --codec h265 --preset quality --profile main10 --tier high --level 5.1 --output-depth 10 --aq --bframes 6 --ref 16 --gop-len 600 
--lookahead 32 --strict-gop --nonrefp --cu-max 32 --cuda-schedule auto --colormatrix bt709 --colorprim bt709 --transfer bt709
 --vpp-edgelevel strength=10,threshold=15,black=5,white=2 --mv-precision full-pel --cabac

Code:

Max B frames are 0 frames.
NVEncC (x64) 4.68 (r1402) by rigaya, Mar  7 2020 13:54:44 (VC 1916/Win/avx2)
OS Version     Windows 10 x64 (18362)
CPU            Intel Core i7-8550U @ 1.80GHz [TB: 2.59GHz] (4C/8T)
GPU            #0: GeForce GTX 1050 (640 cores, 1493 MHz)[PCIe3x16][441.08]
NVENC / CUDA   NVENC API 9.1, CUDA 10.2, schedule mode: auto
Input Buffers  CUDA, 41 frames
Input Info     Avisynth+ 2.60(yv12)->nv12 [AVX2], 1280x720, 24000/1001 fps
Vpp Filters    copyHtoD
cspconv(nv12 -> yv12(16bit))
edgelevel: strength 10.0, threshold 15.0, black 5.0, white 2.0
cspconv(yv12(16bit) -> p010)
Output Info    H.265/HEVC main10 @ Level 5.1
1280x720p 1:1 23.976fps (24000/1001fps)
Encoder Preset quality
Rate Control   VBRHQ
Bitrate        2048 kbps (Max: 153600 kbps)
Target Quality auto
Initial QP     I:20  P:23  B:25
VBV buf size   auto
Lookahead      on, 32 frames, Adaptive I, B Insert
GOP length     600 frames
B frames       0 frames [ref mode: disabled]
Ref frames     16 frames
AQ             on
CU max / min   32 / auto
VUI            matrix:bt709,colorprim:bt709,transfer:bt709
Others         mv:full-pel nonrefp

Script i'm trying to encode

Code:

MP_Pipeline("""
### platform: win64
FFmpegSource2("C:\Users\LEGEND\Desktop\Filter\File.mkv", width=1280, height=720, resizer="BICUBIC", colorspace="YV12")


### ###
### platform: win32
SetMemoryMax(1024)
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth+\plugins\eDeen.dll")

eDeen(r=2, ty=14, tuv=21, ly=7, luv=10, hqc=true)

### prefetch: 32, 16
### ###
### platform: win32
SetMemoryMax(1024)
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth+\plugins\Deen.dll")
Deen(mode="a2d", rad=2, thrY=14, thrUV=16, min=0.5)

### prefetch: 32, 16
### ###
### platform: win32
SetMemoryMax(1024)
Sharpen(0.20)


### prefetch: 32, 16
### ###
### platform: win32
SetMemoryMax(1024)
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth+\plugins\aWarpSharp2.dll")
aWarpSharp2(depth=20)

### prefetch: 32, 16
### ###
### platform: win32
SetMemoryMax(1024)
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth+\plugins\MSharpen.dll")
msharpen(threshold=10, strength=70,mask=false, highq=true)

### prefetch: 32, 16
### ###
### platform: win32
SetMemoryMax(1024)
FastLineDarken(strength=100, luma_cap=191, threshold=4, thinning=24)

### prefetch: 32, 16
### ###
### platform: win32
SetMemoryMax(1024)
Trim(18200, 25900)

### prefetch: 32, 16
### ###
""")

tell me if you need more details. and please reply if you have something to tell me. Thanks in advance.

44vince44 · 18th October 2020, 06:00

@Legend, you need to monitor the CPU usage, to know what's happening.

I bet the CPU usage is low. Meaning, you're not taking advantage of the CPU speed for some reason. This reason could be that one or more of the AVisynth plugins is not working in multi-cpu mode.
To force multi-cpu, you have to put at the end of your script, only once:
Prefetch(4)

4 being here the number of CPU logical cores. You can set it up to 8 on your i7 setup.
Try that and it should solve your problem.

Note: I'm not sure that SetMemoryMax(1024) is required here...

L E G E N D · 18th October 2020, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44vince44

@Legend, you need to monitor the CPU usage, to know what's happening.

I bet the CPU usage is low. Meaning, you're not taking advantage of the CPU speed for some reason. This reason could be that one or more of the AVisynth plugins is not working in multi-cpu mode.
To force multi-cpu, you have to put at the end of your script, only once:
Prefetch(4)

4 being here the number of CPU logical cores. You can set it up to 8 on your i7 setup.
Try that and it should solve your problem.

Note: I'm not sure that SetMemoryMax(1024) is required here...

First of all, thanks to responding ^^

you bet right, the CPU usage is 48~58 %. I don't know much about the Avisynth Plugins/Scripts Multi-core/Multithread support.
I kept monitoring the Mp_pipeline processes, they don't use much memory nor GPU. i tried removing the lines of setting max memory
from the script, and set Prefetch(8) in the end, but the NVENC behaves the same, CPU usage don't exceed 60 % and GPU is at 3% usage 9% VE.

My thought is that mp_pipeline is written in C, not CUDA, hence, it doesn't make the child processes of each filter profit from the GPU as it should be
in this case. so maybe there's no point in using NVENC when no GPU resources are not being exploited.

maybe the solution is to use Vapoursynth.

https://i.imgur.com/5iMWl8K.jpg

real.finder · 19th October 2020, 23:22

@l e g e n d

Code:

MP_Pipeline("""
### platform: win64
FFmpegSource2("", width=1280, height=720, resizer="BICUBIC", colorspace="YV12")

### prefetch: 32, 16
### ###
### platform: win32
SetFilterMTMode("eDeen", 2)
SetFilterMTMode("Deen", 2)
eDeen(r=2, ty=14, tuv=21, ly=7, luv=10, hqc=true)
Deen(mode="a2d", rad=2, thrY=14, thrUV=16, min=0.5)
prefetch(8)
### prefetch: 20, 10
### ###
### platform: win64
Sharpen(0.20)

aWarpSharp2(depth=20)

msharpen(threshold=10, strength=70,mask=false, highq=true)

FastLineDarken(strength=100, luma_cap=191, threshold=4, thinning=24)

Trim(18200, 25900)
prefetch(8)
### prefetch: 10, 5
### ###
""")

this give me 60fps

L E G E N D · 20th October 2020, 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by real.finder

@l e g e n d

Code:

MP_Pipeline("""
### platform: win64
FFmpegSource2("", width=1280, height=720, resizer="BICUBIC", colorspace="YV12")

### prefetch: 32, 16
### ###
### platform: win32
SetFilterMTMode("eDeen", 2)
SetFilterMTMode("Deen", 2)
eDeen(r=2, ty=14, tuv=21, ly=7, luv=10, hqc=true)
Deen(mode="a2d", rad=2, thrY=14, thrUV=16, min=0.5)
prefetch(8)
### prefetch: 20, 10
### ###
### platform: win64
Sharpen(0.20)

aWarpSharp2(depth=20)

msharpen(threshold=10, strength=70,mask=false, highq=true)

FastLineDarken(strength=100, luma_cap=191, threshold=4, thinning=24)

Trim(18200, 25900)
prefetch(8)
### prefetch: 10, 5
### ###
""")

this give me 60fps

Thank you real.finder i tried the script above and got 100% CPU usage, performance jumped to 43 fps.
also there are some artifacts that show up periodically. i'll leave two pictures for comparison. anyway THANK YOU ^^.

original:
https://i.imgur.com/xEcnSRv.png

artifacts:
https://i.imgur.com/VHaYEqV.png
[/SPOILER]

real.finder · 20th October 2020, 11:14

you can replace the old FastLineDarken with FastLineDarkenMOD4 for more speed and stability

yes that come from edeen, that why I hate using close sources plugins! you can't do anything about it, except change SetFilterMTMode("eDeen", 2) to SetFilterMTMode("eDeen", 3) or remove prefetch(8) from the block that has eDeen and in both cases you may get back to old speed (eDeen will be a Bottle neck)

edit: also you can replace

Code:

SetFilterMTMode("eDeen", 2)
SetFilterMTMode("Deen", 2)
eDeen(r=2, ty=14, tuv=21, ly=7, luv=10, hqc=true)
Deen(mode="a2d", rad=2, thrY=14, thrUV=16, min=0.5)
prefetch(8)
### prefetch: 20, 10

with

Code:

eDeen(r=2, ty=14, tuv=21, ly=7, luv=10, hqc=true)
Deen(mode="a2d", rad=2, thrY=14, thrUV=16, min=0.5)
### branch: 4
### prefetch: 20, 10

which give a faster speed (not same as prefetch(8)) and no artifacts

lordalibaski · 31st October 2020, 03:27

edit sorry meant to put it in the other staxrip topic.

Dann0245 · 1st November 2020, 08:51

How to load VapourSynth with StarxRip?

I use python 3.8.6 and VapourSyntth R52

my test.vpy script, it's a sample from http://www.vapoursynth.com/doc/gettingstarted.html

Code:

from vapoursynth import core
video_in = core.ffms2.Source(source='Rule6.mkv')
#video_in = core.lsmas.LWLibavSource(r'Rule6.mkv')
video_in = core.std.Transpose(video_in)
video_in.set_output()

Virtual Dub 2 opens it well

I can run the script from command line too.

Code:

vspipe --y4m test.vpy - | x265 --y4m - --output encoded.mkv

StarxRip 2.1.4.8 Beta, give an error when open script:

When I chage

video_in = core.ffms2.Source(source='Rule6.mkv')

to

video_in = core.lsmas.LWLibavSource(r'Rule6.mkv')

StarRip give me another error:

I already put file LSMASHSource.dll into: "StaxRip-x64-2.1.4.8-Beta\Settings\Plugins\VapourSynth" and "StaxRip-x64-2.1.4.8-Beta\Apps\FrameServer\VapourSynth\vapoursynth64\coreplugins"

do some search, I found this post: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...63#post1816963

stax76 said: "Let staxrip create a vpy script"

But how to do that?

44vince44 · 1st November 2020, 11:54

It means you have to open staxrip, click where you read AVS Filters (in blue) and select Filter Setup > Vapoursynth. It will change to VS Filters.
Then open or drag and drop the video file in staxrip, and build your filters from there (read staxrip doc).

Staxrip will build the script for you, and you'll be able to execute the process without the whole scripting method that is explained in Vapoursynth.

Dann0245 · 2nd November 2020, 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44vince44

It means you have to open staxrip, click where you read AVS Filters (in blue) and select Filter Setup > Vapoursynth. It will change to VS Filters.
Then open or drag and drop the video file in staxrip, and build your filters from there (read staxrip doc).

Staxrip will build the script for you, and you'll be able to execute the process without the whole scripting method that is explained in Vapoursynth.

I figured it out.

Thank!

hevron · 14th November 2020, 16:29

I appeal to experts for help. Updated plugins on Update-Links Staxrip -Stuff.
Plugins_JPSDR: in the folder there are 8 pieces, which of them should be selected?
AVS-Stuff real.finder: avs 2.6 and up or avs 2.5 and up should be selected? Thank you.
Win10x64.

12th October 2020, 19:06	#2203 \| Link
-QfG- QfG Group Germany Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Germany Posts: 197	Hi stax, is there any chance to add DNxHR Intermediate Output in the FFMPEG section by Encoders? You can delete the "ProRes" button, "DNxHR" is the newer Intermediate Codec. Here the inputs for DNxHR: Code: -c:v dnxhd -profile:v dnxhr_lb //Low Bandwidth. 8-bit 4:2:2 (yuv422p). Offline Quality. -c:v dnxhd -profile:v dnxhr_sq //Standard Quality. 8-bit 4:2:2 (yuv422p). Suitable for delivery format. -c:v dnxhd -profile:v dnxhr_hq //High Quality. 8-bit 4:2:2 (yuv422p) -c:v dnxhd -profile:v dnxhr_hqx //High Quality. 10-bit 4:2:2 (yuv422p10le). UHD/4K Broadcast-quality delivery. -c:v dnxhd -profile:v dnxhr_444 //Finishing Quality. 10-bit 4:4:4 (yuv444p10le). Cinema-quality delivery. I don't know if i can add that himself, if anyone has an idea, how i can add this, please tell it me. I can't encode directly via FFMPEG, because i need some Avisynth Tweaks (Inverse Telecine) Greetings __________________ DDVT Tool Dolby Vision RPU Demuxing / Injecting / Editing. Last edited by -QfG-; 12th October 2020 at 19:44.

12th October 2020, 19:31	#2205 \| Link
-QfG- QfG Group Germany Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Germany Posts: 197	Thx. Oh i see this is the wrong thread here, sorry. __________________ DDVT Tool Dolby Vision RPU Demuxing / Injecting / Editing.

12th October 2020, 20:07	#2207 \| Link
stax76 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: On thin ice Posts: 6,800	Currently, I pause 3-6 months. I try to get more people interested maintaining it. __________________ https://github.com/stax76/software-list https://www.youtube.com/@stax76/playlists Last edited by stax76; 12th October 2020 at 20:14.

13th October 2020, 01:08	#2208 \| Link
hevron Registered User Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 25	I greet everyone. StaxRip-x64-2.1.4.8-Beta. QVBR (Quality Variable bitrate using bitrate) preset for Intel H.264 does not work. This has been observed in all recent beta. Whatever high bitrate I set, the program switches to QVBR-Q (Quality Variable bitrate using quality - 23). If necessary, I will indicate the exact parameters of my files. Also, another presets for Intel H.264: LA (VBR Lookahead), LA HRD does not work for me. If earlier it was possible to set the maximum Lookahead Depth - 100, now the launch with any settings ends in a crash: Failed to initialize encoder. : invalid video parameters. QSVEncC.exe finished with error! Please pay attention to these problems. thanks Last edited by hevron; 13th October 2020 at 18:42.

17th October 2020, 09:37	#2209 \| Link
-QfG- QfG Group Germany Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Germany Posts: 197	Updates for following AVS Filter available: TDeint v1.7 TIVTC v1.22 https://github.com/pinterf/TIVTC/releases/tag/v1.0.22b __________________ DDVT Tool Dolby Vision RPU Demuxing / Injecting / Editing.

2nd October 2020, 20:59	#2202 \| Link
44vince44 Registered User Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 188	yes thanks for the latest beta!

18th October 2020, 06:00	#2211 \| Link
44vince44 Registered User Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 188	@Legend, you need to monitor the CPU usage, to know what's happening. I bet the CPU usage is low. Meaning, you're not taking advantage of the CPU speed for some reason. This reason could be that one or more of the AVisynth plugins is not working in multi-cpu mode. To force multi-cpu, you have to put at the end of your script, only once: Prefetch(4) 4 being here the number of CPU logical cores. You can set it up to 8 on your i7 setup. Try that and it should solve your problem. Note: I'm not sure that SetMemoryMax(1024) is required here...

20th October 2020, 11:14	#2215 \| Link
real.finder Registered User Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Mesopotamia Posts: 2,549	you can replace the old FastLineDarken with FastLineDarkenMOD4 for more speed and stability yes that come from edeen, that why I hate using close sources plugins! you can't do anything about it, except change SetFilterMTMode("eDeen", 2) to SetFilterMTMode("eDeen", 3) or remove prefetch(8) from the block that has eDeen and in both cases you may get back to old speed (eDeen will be a Bottle neck) edit: also you can replace Code: SetFilterMTMode("eDeen", 2) SetFilterMTMode("Deen", 2) eDeen(r=2, ty=14, tuv=21, ly=7, luv=10, hqc=true) Deen(mode="a2d", rad=2, thrY=14, thrUV=16, min=0.5) prefetch(8) ### prefetch: 20, 10 with Code: eDeen(r=2, ty=14, tuv=21, ly=7, luv=10, hqc=true) Deen(mode="a2d", rad=2, thrY=14, thrUV=16, min=0.5) ### branch: 4 ### prefetch: 20, 10 which give a faster speed (not same as prefetch(8)) and no artifacts __________________ See My Avisynth Stuff Last edited by real.finder; 18th November 2020 at 13:00.

31st October 2020, 03:27	#2216 \| Link
lordalibaski Registered User Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 87	edit sorry meant to put it in the other staxrip topic. Last edited by lordalibaski; 31st October 2020 at 15:07.

1st November 2020, 08:51	#2217 \| Link
Dann0245 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 23	How to load VapourSynth with StarxRip? I use python 3.8.6 and VapourSyntth R52 my test.vpy script, it's a sample from http://www.vapoursynth.com/doc/gettingstarted.html Code: from vapoursynth import core video_in = core.ffms2.Source(source='Rule6.mkv') #video_in = core.lsmas.LWLibavSource(r'Rule6.mkv') video_in = core.std.Transpose(video_in) video_in.set_output() Virtual Dub 2 opens it well I can run the script from command line too. Code: vspipe --y4m test.vpy - \| x265 --y4m - --output encoded.mkv StarxRip 2.1.4.8 Beta, give an error when open script: When I chage video_in = core.ffms2.Source(source='Rule6.mkv') to video_in = core.lsmas.LWLibavSource(r'Rule6.mkv') StarRip give me another error: I already put file LSMASHSource.dll into: "StaxRip-x64-2.1.4.8-Beta\Settings\Plugins\VapourSynth" and "StaxRip-x64-2.1.4.8-Beta\Apps\FrameServer\VapourSynth\vapoursynth64\coreplugins" do some search, I found this post: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...63#post1816963 stax76 said: "Let staxrip create a vpy script" But how to do that? Attached Images Last edited by Dann0245; 1st November 2020 at 08:55.

1st November 2020, 11:54	#2218 \| Link
44vince44 Registered User Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 188	It means you have to open staxrip, click where you read AVS Filters (in blue) and select Filter Setup > Vapoursynth. It will change to VS Filters. Then open or drag and drop the video file in staxrip, and build your filters from there (read staxrip doc). Staxrip will build the script for you, and you'll be able to execute the process without the whole scripting method that is explained in Vapoursynth. Last edited by 44vince44; 1st November 2020 at 11:57.

14th November 2020, 16:29	#2220 \| Link
hevron Registered User Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 25	I appeal to experts for help. Updated plugins on Update-Links Staxrip -Stuff. Plugins_JPSDR: in the folder there are 8 pieces, which of them should be selected? AVS-Stuff real.finder: avs 2.6 and up or avs 2.5 and up should be selected? Thank you. Win10x64. Last edited by hevron; 14th November 2020 at 16:38.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode