Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11th June 2023, 08:38   #1981  |  Link
butterw2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by clsid View Post
That means that the graphics driver has an application profile specific for the applications name. Tell Intel to fix their damn drivers...
Or you have done some stupid Windows compatibility mode settings...
The issue exists with filenames mpc-hc64.exe and mpc-hc.exe.
The systems tested are install/upgrades to Win10 22H2 with a fresh intel ARC/11th-gen graphics driver install, so I don't know if the issue exists with other configs.
I've also tried: disabling hw-acceleration and windows-hidpi set to 100%.
and I am not using any Windows compatibility modes.

EDIT: Issue also exists with intel driver version: 30.0.101.1273, so maybe for all WHQL driver versions.

Last edited by butterw2; 11th June 2023 at 10:16.
butterw2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2023, 19:49   #1982  |  Link
Sunspark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by clsid View Post
That means that the graphics driver has an application profile specific for the applications name. Tell Intel to fix their damn drivers...
Or you have done some stupid Windows compatibility mode settings...
It actually does recognize mpc-hc and gives it different treatment over mpc-be, so I renamed be to have the same filename for the driver so both would run the same. This is with an older driver from years ago. I don't know what they do today with the newest drivers but it's unlikely this behaviour would have stopped.
Sunspark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2023, 16:53   #1983  |  Link
Duccat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 4
I'm suddenly having an issue where my audio is barely hearable with the volume on the player (both volume sliders on the player and Window's) and my headphones at 100%.

Is there some kind of setting that I may have somehow changed that would cause this?

The audio on my videos is 2.0 stereo and I have 2.0 stereo headphones.
Duccat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2023, 20:03   #1984  |  Link
Sunspark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 471
You need to test first by comparing to the Windows Films&TV/Movies&TV player app. Then with a different headphone. Wires do break if they are flexed a lot.
Sunspark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2023, 22:52   #1985  |  Link
Duccat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 4
Can't use such an app. Computer has Windows 7. I guess I can try a different video player.

It's only videos having this problem, though. Video games sound as loud as they normally do.
So, I don't think it's my headphones suddenly acting up.

While I do have another pair of headphones, they always where x2 louder because of the dB difference, not going to really help me compare.
Duccat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2023, 23:05   #1986  |  Link
Sunspark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 471
Ok, change the audio renderer in the settings to sanear audio renderer.
Sunspark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2023, 06:39   #1987  |  Link
Dogway
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,361
Lately I've been making a few pixel shaders to correct minor issues for some titles of my library to avoid the need of reencoding them.

One of them was a wrong matrix coefficient encoding, so after creating it I noticed of the bundled "BT.601 to BT.709 [HD].hlsl" and compared both. It seems that one is wrong as it's doing exactly the opposite (Rec709 encoded for SD).

You can double check this with different AviSynth filters, red should look darker and more subdued.
Code:
ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.601->Rec.709",threads=2)
or
Code:
ConvertBits(16)
z_ConvertFormat(pixel_type="YUV420P16",colorspace_op="170m:auto:auto:l=>709:same:same:l")
or
Code:
ConverttoPlanarRGB(matrix="Rec601")
ConverttoYUV444(matrix="Rec709")
The confusion comes from AviSynth working on the original clip YCbCr model, while for the pixel shaders a previous "wrong" conversion to RGB is performed by the renderer so you have to make another wrong to make it right.

Simulation in AviSynth:
Code:
ConverttoPlanarRGB()
ConverttoYUV444(matrix="Rec709")
ConverttoPlanarRGB(matrix="Rec601")
You can check the correct shader in my repo, I merged the two matrices so it's x2 faster. There you will also find an advanced saturation shader and an IPTPQc2 decoder, in case you are interested in adding them to MPC-HC.

BTW it would be cool to create some kind of options for shaders that allow them, so for example I don't have to duplicate a new saturation shader with other values for different films.

Also noticed that when shaders are enabled they are sandwiched with a TV to PC and PC to TV shader calls. Could these be optionally removed so for performance reasons it can be handled within the shader?
__________________
i7-4790K@Stock::GTX 1070] AviSynth+ filters and mods on GitHub + Discussion thread

Last edited by Dogway; 21st June 2023 at 06:42.
Dogway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2023, 23:32   #1988  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,913
the convert bt601 to bt 709 seem to put the source image treated as bt 601 into an bt 709 containing making red less red as it should be.
so it seem to work as intended.

avisynth is just changing values it is not providing meta data so it doesn't matter how it "looks" without matching meta data.

Quote:
Also noticed that when shaders are enabled they are sandwiched with a TV to PC and PC to TV shader calls. Could these be optionally removed so for performance reasons it can be handled within the shader?
if the renderer works in full range else no some shader need full range or stop working correctly.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2023, 13:54   #1989  |  Link
Dogway
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the convert bt601 to bt 709 seem to put the source image treated as bt 601 into an bt 709 containing making red less red as it should be.
so it seem to work as intended.

avisynth is just changing values it is not providing meta data so it doesn't matter how it "looks" without matching meta data.
@huhn: Thanks for the reply but unfortunately I couldn't follow you much, you seem to hint that what's been common practice in AviSynth for at least the 14 years I've been here is wrong? If you can elaborate a bit probably we could raise this as an issue to AVS+ repo. You can read more about this topic here and correct it if you find it appropriate.
__________________
i7-4790K@Stock::GTX 1070] AviSynth+ filters and mods on GitHub + Discussion thread
Dogway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2023, 14:37   #1990  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,913
DVD are far more complicated to just assume bt 601.

calibration is more than just changing colorspaces you need to match the colorspace and understand what you are actually doing.

avisynth is different there is no end device you can do what ever you want as long as you flag the file correctly but the results may look wrong when mastering.
your renderer needs to know the input and output and it will just fix everything for you these old shader are not really used anymore.

if your source is bt 709 don't convert just add it in the encoding parameter that this is bt 709.
same for bt 601.

the "How can I use the correct standard upon playback?" is so outdated ignore it times have changed you don't fix issue by brute force you just add the meta data when encoding.

even if you want to run avisynth scripts realtime
https://github.com/CrendKing/avisynth_filter
you can add and change meta data and use a video renderer that understands them.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2023, 15:30   #1991  |  Link
Dogway
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,361
The link gives examples for both DVD and HD wrong matrix encodes. The YCbCr model is over 40 years old so I think the principle still applies.

You seem to imply this is a metadata issue but that is a different topic I'm not talking about. I'm fixing my own encoded HD video which I (wrongly) assumed had wrong matrix conversion. You can't change then the metadata from Rec709 to Rec601, because it's not Rec601 and colors are embedded into the clip color.

So in the same scenario where the authoring went wrong (wrong RGB to YCbCr conversion matrix), it's not a metadata issue anymore (it could very well labelled as Rec709) but as you called it "brute force" conversion issue.

Your suggestion for feeding AVS scripts into player looks redundant? LAVFilters can already read .avs files. So unless you require the frame properties for HDR or something it doesn't seem necessary. Also AviSynth is slower than GPU shaders, and with your method it makes it so much difficult to integrate into Kodi or other libraries. In MPC-HC you create a shader preset, and then call it by configuring this in playercorefactory.xml for Kodi.
__________________
i7-4790K@Stock::GTX 1070] AviSynth+ filters and mods on GitHub + Discussion thread

Last edited by Dogway; 22nd June 2023 at 15:33.
Dogway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2023, 17:49   #1992  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogway View Post
The link gives examples for both DVD and HD wrong matrix encodes. The YCbCr model is over 40 years old so I think the principle still applies.
and someone makes an image wrong and mixes 3 colorspaces i don't know what to tell you that's image with no meta data a video has meta data.
Quote:
You seem to imply this is a metadata issue but that is a different topic I'm not talking about. I'm fixing my own encoded HD video which I (wrongly) assumed had wrong matrix conversion. You can't change then the metadata from Rec709 to Rec601, because it's not Rec601 and colors are embedded into the clip color.
you have only talked about spec conversation so yes you can.
you flag them to what they really are.

the bt 601 shader just takes the source image assumes bt 601 and put it into an bt 709 container assuming bt 709 if the file is flagged as bt 601 this would happen directly with a proper video renderer.

Quote:
So in the same scenario where the authoring went wrong (wrong RGB to YCbCr conversion matrix), it's not a metadata issue anymore (it could very well labelled as Rec709) but as you called it "brute force" conversion issue.
it has to be something and as long as it isn't something custom which needs soemthign that isn'T bt 601 to bt 709 you can just fix it with meta data.
doesn't work with eery codec but that'S not the point.
Quote:
Your suggestion for feeding AVS scripts into player looks redundant? LAVFilters can already read .avs files. So unless you require the frame properties for HDR or something it doesn't seem necessary. Also AviSynth is slower than GPU shaders, and with your method it makes it so much difficult to integrate into Kodi or other libraries. In MPC-HC you create a shader preset, and then call it by configuring this in playercorefactory.xml for Kodi.
as long as your avisynth version read meta data and feeds it to the splitter you are fine. but if that would be the case why would you convert bt 601 to bt 709 instead of just saying it is bt 601.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2023, 19:49   #1993  |  Link
Dogway
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
and someone makes an image wrong and mixes 3 colorspaces i don't know what to tell you that's image with no meta data a video has meta data.
What image are you talking about? Images also have metadata, and even sometimes include a color profile...

Quote:
you have only talked about spec conversation so yes you can.
you flag them to what they really are.
Quote:
as long as your avisynth version read meta data and feeds it to the splitter you are fine. but if that would be the case why would you convert bt 601 to bt 709 instead of just saying it is bt 601.
I've talked about spec restoration. That would only work with single conversions as in my example, I retagged my HD encode as BT.601 and now it shows fine in MPC-HC, matching my examples above. But it would fail in the case of double wrongs, which may still happen at some point, specially in Bluray extras where they take SD sources. In such scenarios, like the one I originally (and wrongly) wanted to fix for my video the info in the link is accurate -or you need to work with it in AVS+-, unless you want to go hacky and retag an HD (true) BT.709 video as BT.601.

If you think it's not accurate tell me where do you think it fails to report.
__________________
i7-4790K@Stock::GTX 1070] AviSynth+ filters and mods on GitHub + Discussion thread

Last edited by Dogway; 22nd June 2023 at 19:52.
Dogway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2023, 02:46   #1994  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogway View Post
What image are you talking about? Images also have metadata, and even sometimes include a color profile...
and how do you get there 3 color spaces in one image?

I've talked about spec restoration. That would only work with single conversions as in my example, I retagged my HD encode as BT.601 and now it shows fine in MPC-HC, matching my examples above. But it would fail in the case of double wrongs, which may still happen at some point, specially in Bluray extras where they take SD sources. In such scenarios, like the one I originally (and wrongly) wanted to fix for my video the info in the link is accurate -or you need to work with it in AVS+-, unless you want to go hacky and retag an HD (true) BT.709 video as BT.601.

If you think it's not accurate tell me where do you think it fails to report.[/QUOTE]

if you messed up colors beyond believe you need a custom solution.
why would you need to retag a true bt 709 video as bt 601?
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2023, 06:36   #1995  |  Link
Dogway
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,361
So going back to square one, the MPC-HC shader fix. I retagged my HD video to BT.601 and it worked, as expected matching the posted AviSynth examples, my shader solution and the examples in the link in AVS docs. Only the bundled MPC-HC shader shows a different output. You say all of those 4 methods are wrong but you haven't shown how or in what manner.

Consider not everyone wants/knows/needs to remux/retag the video so I deem the shader still useful, and specially needed for the aforementioned cases.
Quote:
why would you need to retag a true bt 709 video as bt 601?
Because someone converted to BT.709 as it was BT.601 when it already was BT.709 (aka double forward "wrong" matrix coefs conversion)?
__________________
i7-4790K@Stock::GTX 1070] AviSynth+ filters and mods on GitHub + Discussion thread
Dogway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2023, 06:54   #1996  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,913
then it is not a true bt 709 it's "something".

in your case you need to bt 601 stretch to bt 709 and still flag it bt 709. so a conversation to bt 601 and then still flaggin it to bt 709 may do the trick. or with other word you have to treat the bt 601 in the bt 709 container as bt 709.

the shader in mpc-hc does the opposite it put's the source image considered to be bt 601 into a bt 709 container.

using the shader on a bt 709 flagged source that is bt 601 or just reflagging it to bt 601 do about the same. and that is assuming the shader is accurate i only checked if it takes the smaller colorspace and put it into the bigger one by making the colors less pronounced.

edit:
found the reason for the confusion i messed up.

what you want to do is undo a bad RGB -> YCbCr or bad YCbCr to RGB conversation.
the meta data flag don't do that they say the renderer what something is meaning it will do real colorpsace conversation RGB or YCbCr do not matter here only source colorpsace and target colorspace.

what the original shader in mpc-hc does (assuming the math is accurate) is taking a BT 709 file and only if the resolution is over X for what ever reason. converting it to YCbCr using bt 601 and converting the YCbCr back to RGB using bt 709. a bt 709 flag should have the same effect and the file needs to be bt 601 flagged or be guessed to be bt 601 to even get this issue.

Last edited by huhn; 23rd June 2023 at 07:54.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2023, 13:15   #1997  |  Link
Dogway
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,361
I think I got why you got confused.

You were stuck at talking about metadata tagging, but I've only talked about wrong authoring.

I will post examples for both "single wrong" cases:

-Correct HD Video authoring - Wrong stream matrix metadata
HD Video uses by standard BT.709 matrix metadata but in this case the stream is tagged as BT.601 upon muxing on the container. The HD Videos itself is handled correctly, in other words the conversion from the RGB master to YCbCr was done with correct Rec709 matrix coefficients.
In this case, yes, the bundled shader will work, but looks like a moot point, simply remux/retag with BT.709 metadata? win-win situation.

-Wrong HD Video authoring - Correct stream matrix metadata
When I say correct stream matrix metadata I mean by the standard. HD Video is by standard BT.709 so in this case the HD Video is correctly tagged, however the authoring (conversion from RGB master to YCbCr) was not. The wrong colors are embedded into the video pixels. Here you have two options, tag the HD Video as what it is, BT.601 (two wrongs make it right), or use my matrix correction shader, convert pixels from BT.601 matrix coefs to BT.709.

I will make this clear in the shader.
__________________
i7-4790K@Stock::GTX 1070] AviSynth+ filters and mods on GitHub + Discussion thread
Dogway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st July 2023, 00:42   #1998  |  Link
djsolidsnake86
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 139
which video renderer use between mpc, evr and madvr?
djsolidsnake86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st July 2023, 06:13   #1999  |  Link
LigH
German doom9/Gleitz SuMo
 
LigH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany, rural Altmark
Posts: 6,774
My personal preference: MPC VideoRenderer by Aleksoid1978 - not as bloated as madVR, yet pretty useful
__________________

New German Gleitz board
MediaFire: x264 | x265 | VPx | AOM | Xvid
LigH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st July 2023, 11:00   #2000  |  Link
LigH
German doom9/Gleitz SuMo
 
LigH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany, rural Altmark
Posts: 6,774
PS: There is also an MPC VideoRenderer with code to enable NVIDIA RTX VSR & Intel Xe VPE scalers by emoose.
__________________

New German Gleitz board
MediaFire: x264 | x265 | VPx | AOM | Xvid
LigH is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.