WebM Exciting New Video Standard with VP8, Vorbis, Matroska

[Astrophizz]

Hmm, well I know I spotted the email in the mailing list a few weeks back but I can't seem to find it. I think it was in regards to the MV bounds issue From what I've seen with the implementation of a branch for bitstream changes you might be right. Of course this will cause an issue with hardware developers...

Edit: Here it is https://groups.google.com/a/webmproj...0111e2f5ba0660
I don't know how waiting made it any easier to resolve but I guess they didn't want to look like fools. That whole thread is interesting. The issue with hardware developers and already encoded streams poses a big issue I think.

[foxyshadis]

I would think hardware developers go into these kinds of arrangements expecting to be thrown under the bus at some point. It always happens that someone implements a broken creator, silently fixes it, and then the reader has to put up with multiple unofficial "extensions" of the spec, the same way that the creators know they'll eventually have to code around bugs & limitations in readers.

[buzzqw]

@Nic

would be possible to add to official ivfenc trunk the avs support sending a patch to webm developers ?

if so we will have a working avs support out of the box

thanks

BHH

[wiak]

Originally Posted by buzzqw

@Nic

would be possible to add to official ivfenc trunk the avs support sending a patch to webm developers ?

if so we will have a working avs support out of the box

thanks

BHH

should be simple just add the code to report
http://code.google.com/p/webm/issues/entry

[hajj_3]

great news: http://webmproject.blogspot.com/2010...bitstream.html

They are accepting improvements to create a VP9, great news Can't see it beating x264 anytime soon but if they can make it beat h264 that would be fantastic

[Atak_Snajpera]

Can't see it beating x264 anytime soon but if they can make it beat h264 that would be fantastic

x264 is implementation of h.264 standard Also they have to omit any patents.

[wiak]

Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera

x264 is implementation of h.264 standard Also they have to omit any patents.

WebM needs a army of lawyers to avoid patents

x264 dont need a army of lawyers, and can basicly just implement without regard

there is a reason why there is no official x264 binaries out, why? they cant redistribute precompiled binaires due to royalties/lisense/patents

hajj_3 old news if you have checked the http://review.webmproject.org site in the last week or so :P

[CruNcher]

http://groups.google.com/a/webmproje...41bce1c4e4948#

[Midzuki]

Question:

Originally Posted by wiak

there is a reason why there is no official x264 binaries out, why? they cant redistribute precompiled binaires due to royalties/lisense/patents

Answer:

Originally Posted by akupenguin

The reason there are no official binaries is that I haven't bothered to figure out how to make a .deb or .rpm, and if you're not using a packaging system you can just compile it yourself. It has nothing to do with licensing.

[Selur]

Looking at ivfenc I wonder is there some overview somewhere which states which min, max and defaults values are set?

[wiak]

Originally Posted by Selur

Looking at ivfenc I wonder is there some overview somewhere which states which min, max and defaults values are set?

some of them says it at http://www.webmproject.org/tools/encoder-parameters/ , but there are also sample parameters at http://www.webmproject.org/tools/encoder-parameters/

[CruNcher]

Though you shouldn't trust the Encode Parameters Especially the 1 pass examples are wrong :P

[Selur]

Was anyone successful in feeding ivfenc via pipe from mencoder?
I tried:

mencoder -dvd-device "D:\ElephantsDream\VIDEO_TS" dvd://1 -ovc raw -noskip -vc mpeg12 -vf scale,format=i420 -forcedsubsonly -nosound -mc 0 -lavdopts threads=8 -really-quiet -fps 25 -aspect 1.7775:1 -of rawvideo -o - \
| ivfenc --passes=1 --pass=1 --target-bitrate=1500 --width=720 --height=576 --timebase=1/25 --i420 - "D:\Encoding Temp\Title_1_1-8.vp8"

but ivfenc keeps complaining about:

Error in piped Y4M input - not recognised as Y4M

(using the ivfenc version from Nic: IVFEnc - VP8 Encoder - Nic's AviSynth Input Mod v1.5 (Jun 7 2010))

Cu Selur

[Gser]

Google adds 'experimental' branch to VP8 source code tree

Google is encouraging developers to work on the next incarnation of its now-open sourced VP8 video codec, acquired from On2 technologies last year in a $124.6 million deal and an integral part of Google's WebM project.

"To maintain codec stability while also allowing for quality and performance improvements in VP8, we have added an experimental branch to the VP8 source tree," said Google codec engineering manager Jim Bankoski.

"The WebM community can use this unstable branch to propose changes to VP8 that will produce the best video codec possible, but without the constraints of a frozen bitstream. At some point in the future, when the experimental branch proves significantly better than the stable branch, we will create a new version of the codec."

Mozilla and Opera have officially put their weight behind the WebM royalty-free format, while Microsoft has said Internet Explorer 9 will support WebM once a user installs VP8. Apple's Steve Jobs has hinted that Safari will stick to H.264 video content.

Various Google partners are currently working on hardware acceleration for VP8, and Bankoski said they are committed to providing the hardware sometime next year.

"Devices that use hardware acceleration for video are a very small percentage of overall web traffic today, but they are a rapidly growing segment of the market and our project must be mindful of these vendors' needs," Bankoski wrote.

[rernst]

At the danger of being redundant - same here.

Originally Posted by Selur

Was anyone successful in feeding ivfenc via pipe from mencoder?
I tried:

mencoder -dvd-device "D:\ElephantsDream\VIDEO_TS" dvd://1 -ovc raw -noskip -vc mpeg12 -vf scale,format=i420 -forcedsubsonly -nosound -mc 0 -lavdopts threads=8 -really-quiet -fps 25 -aspect 1.7775:1 -of rawvideo -o - \
| ivfenc --passes=1 --pass=1 --target-bitrate=1500 --width=720 --height=576 --timebase=1/25 --i420 - "D:\Encoding Temp\Title_1_1-8.vp8"

but ivfenc keeps complaining about:

Error in piped Y4M input - not recognised as Y4M

(using the ivfenc version from Nic: IVFEnc - VP8 Encoder - Nic's AviSynth Input Mod v1.5 (Jun 7 2010))

Cu Selur

[valgor]

Mencoder do not produces yuv4mpeg.
"-of rawvideo" gives you the just raw video stream, without y4m skeleton. and ivfenc tells you this fact.

[Selur]

Thanks, got it working with:

mencoder -dvd-device "D:\ElephantsDream\VIDEO_TS" dvd://1 -ovc raw -noskip -vc mpeg12 -vf scale,format=i420 -forcedsubsonly -nosound -mc 0 -lavdopts threads=8 -really-quiet -fps 25 -aspect 1.7775:1 -of rawvideo -o - | \
ffmpeg -v -10 -threads 8 -r 25 -pix_fmt yuv420p -s 720x576 -f rawvideo -i - -an -r 25 -f yuv4mpegpipe - | \
ivfenc --passes=1 --pass=1 --target-bitrate=1500 --width=720 --height=576 --timebase=1/25 --i420 - "D:\Encoding Temp\Title_1_1-8.vp8"

[rernst]

In that case - why don't you cut mencoder out altogether? ffmpeg has native VP8 support in 0.6 (and it works, I tried it).

[Selur]

This was maily a small test, normally I do some filtering&Co with mencoder (e.g. deinterlacing) but that aside if you can tell me how to open a dvd with ffmpeg I would probably use it more but afaik ffmpeg doesn't support DVD input.
I could drop ivfenc, but first for that I would need some infos how the ivfenc settings match to ffmpeg. (to be frank I will probably stick with infenc since it's easier and faster to compile a new ivfenc build than a ffmpeg, but a ivfcenc->ffmpeg mapping would be interesting)

[rernst]

This from the patch that implements it into ffmpeg:


+{"spatial_rsmpl", "Enable spatial resampling (VP8)", OFFSET(spatial_rsmpl), FF_OPT_TYPE_INT, 0, 0, 1, V|E},
+{"spatial_rsmpl_up", "Spatial resampling up watermark, percentage of target data buffer. (VP8)", OFFSET(spatial_rsmpl_up), FF_OPT_TYPE_INT, 60, 0, 100, V|E},
+{"spatial_rsmpl_down", "Spatial resampling down watermark, percentage of target data buffer. (VP8)", OFFSET(spatial_rsmpl_down), FF_OPT_TYPE_INT, 30, 0, 100, V|E},
+{"vbr_bias", "Two-pass mode CBR/VBR bias, 0-100 (VP8)", OFFSET(vbr_bias), FF_OPT_TYPE_INT, 50, 0, 100, V|E},
+{"lag", "Allow lagged encoding, given as frames (VP8)", OFFSET(lag), FF_OPT_TYPE_INT, 0, 0, INT_MAX, V|E},
+{"sharpness", "[0-7] (VP8)", OFFSET(sharpness), FF_OPT_TYPE_INT, 0, 0, 7, V|E},
+{"altref", "Allow use of alternate reference frame", OFFSET(altref), FF_OPT_TYPE_INT, 0, 0, 1, V|E},
+{"ar_max_frames", "Max frames used in creating alt. ref. [0,25]", OFFSET(ar_max_frames), FF_OPT_TYPE_INT, 0, 0, 25, V|E},
+{"ar_type", "Filter type used in creating alt. ref.", OFFSET(ar_type), FF_OPT_TYPE_INT, 0, 0, INT_MAX, V|E},
+{"ar_strength", "Filter strength used in creating alt. ref. [0,6]", OFFSET(ar_strength), FF_OPT_TYPE_INT, 0, 0, 6, V|E},
+{"mb_static_threshold", "", OFFSET(mb_static_threshold), FF_OPT_TYPE_INT, 800, 0, INT_MAX, V|E},
+{"rc_opt_occupancy", "number of bits which should be kept in the rc buffer during decoding", OFFSET(rc_optimal_buffer_occupancy), FF_OPT_TYPE_INT, DEFAULT, INT_MIN, INT_MAX, V|E},
+{"token_partitions", "Number of sub-streams in bitstream (1,2,4,8).*Used for parallelized decoding.", OFFSET(token_partitions), FF_OPT_TYPE_INT, 1, 1, INT_MAX, V|E},