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Old 19th March 2021, 01:05   #721  |  Link
Asmodian
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The first thing I would do is make sure quadrupling is disabled.

If you use ctrl-J, do you see the average rendering times above the frame time?
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Old 19th March 2021, 13:58   #722  |  Link
manni500
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Quadrupling is not enabled; on the scaling algorithms I use
- Bicubic60
- Bicubic150
- Lanczos 3 taps

On ctrl-J, rendering is shown as 27.01 and 34.75ms resp. (screenshot attached); this on a video where judder is indeed prevalent
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Old 19th March 2021, 17:23   #723  |  Link
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ADDENDUM

An interesting development: the judder goes away when I take out HW Acceleration in the LAV Filter

This probably will have other ramifications but I haven't found those yet
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Old 20th March 2021, 00:29   #724  |  Link
Asmodian
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Interesting, that is weird.

Do you have the frames presented in advance set to 3 or 1? (recommended)

Sticking to software decoding is a great option though, if you aren't trying to watch 4K HEVC on a lower end or older CPU.
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Old 20th March 2021, 14:16   #725  |  Link
manni500
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Frames presented are set to 3, I will now test things with 1 and report back.

My CPU is indeed a bit of a grandfather, I will likely have to get a new motherboard sometime soon.

Still, that will not explain the judder question: When the low-resolution films run on the fairly new GPU, I have judder. But when they run on the old CPU, there is none
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Old 20th March 2021, 16:33   #726  |  Link
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UPDATE

I fiddled around with the frames presented - 1, 3 or 8: no difference.

Meanwhile, I realized that there were a lot of frames dropped when showing in top resolution (3940x2160). This caused me to play with some of the madVR settings, and low & behold - no more or only very few frames dropped and no more judder!

Unfortunately though, I cannot put my finger on what exactly caused this improvement.

But if you have an interest, I will be happy to send you the new settings.bin file
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Old 4th November 2021, 01:04   #727  |  Link
doffen
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I've tried to set up separate profiles for 23,976 and 24 fps content, but my rules seem to round up and treat both framerates as 24 fps.
Does anyone have rules to differ between these two or any idea about how I can make them?
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Old 4th November 2021, 15:04   #728  |  Link
QBhd
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Not sure why you would need to differentiate between the two, the processing power used for both should be nearly the same. But if I was going to make rules <24 and <25 should do the trick

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Old 4th November 2021, 18:51   #729  |  Link
doffen
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it's about reducing framedrops.
with 23.976fps content and 59.94Hz I get 2:3 pulldown, but with 24fps content and 59.94Hz I get lots of dropped frames. If I increase the framerate to 60Hz I don't get as many dropped frames anymore.

Ive tried these three rules:
Code:
if (deintFps < 24) "23fps"
else "24fps"

if (fps < 24) "23fps"
else "24fps"

if (fps >= 24) "24fps"
else "23fps"
The result is always the same, and the 23fps profile (first profile) is chosen with 24fp content.

It's almost like MadVR rounds 23.976 up to 24 and can't differ between the two.
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Old 4th November 2021, 22:17   #730  |  Link
.m4jX
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Try
Code:
if (fps<23.999) "23fps"
else "24fps"
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Old 4th November 2021, 22:38   #731  |  Link
QBhd
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But for what you want, it is better to setup a proper 23.976 and 24.000 refresh rate

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Old 6th November 2021, 12:54   #732  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doffen View Post
it's about reducing framedrops.
with 23.976fps content and 59.94Hz I get 2:3 pulldown, but with 24fps content and 59.94Hz I get lots of dropped frames. If I increase the framerate to 60Hz I don't get as many dropped frames anymore.
no you will get 1 extra repeated frame every 1000 frames which should create a 2:2 cadance for that rare case and short case.
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Old 7th November 2021, 00:10   #733  |  Link
doffen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .m4jX View Post
Try
Code:
if (fps<23.999) "23fps"
else "24fps"
Thank you soo much!
This ruleset works perfectly

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
no you will get 1 extra repeated frame every 1000 frames which should create a 2:2 cadance for that rare case and short case.
I'm not sure we agree (or maybe we do) but you made me read a bit more about cadence. If I understand it correctly I will get something like a 4:10 cadence with 23.976 content and 59.94Hz screen.

MadVRs dropped/repeated frames stay up in the hours range when I match it the way I want to.
I did a short test having it the "wrong way" and I got numbers wich add up to what you said: 1 frame repeat/drop every 1000 frames.
24.000fps 59.94Hz = 1 frame drop every ≈41s
23.976fps 60Hz = 1 frame repeat every ≈41s

@QBhd
Yes normally it would be better to setup a proper 23.976 and 24.000 refresh rate.
Because my TV doesn't accept 4:4:4 chroma at 23.976 or 24.000hz refreshrate I use 59.94 and 60Hz instead. I never imagined the TV would have a limitation like this, but the only thing I can do is to try and work my way around it
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Old 7th November 2021, 01:41   #734  |  Link
huhn
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the numbers for 3:2 judder are not calculated you have to add them which is 4.8 a sec so do you really think 1 more or less every 41 sec makes a real day night difference?
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Old 7th November 2021, 19:01   #735  |  Link
doffen
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No, I don’t think it will make a night and day difference.
It’s still an improvement within the compromises I’ve chosen.
Do you think I shouldn’t make this (now automated) improvement because it’s not a night and day difference?
I’m just curious, I’m doing it like this until either my equipment or opinion changes
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Old 7th November 2021, 19:06   #736  |  Link
huhn
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you are just waisting your time instead of usinf one of the other ways to fix the issue compeltely.
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Old 7th November 2021, 22:18   #737  |  Link
doffen
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Which is?
I want 4:4:4 chroma resolution to my TV, which doesn’t work on 23/24hz.
If there is a better way I’d love to learn it!
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Old 8th November 2021, 00:06   #738  |  Link
huhn
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smooth motion (literally made for this exact case).
you can try your luck with a custom refreshrate.
reclock.
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Old 8th November 2021, 03:07   #739  |  Link
doffen
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Thank you for your input!
I'm already using smooth motion (with the setting: only if there would be motion judder without it) Using the Ctrl-J stats I see it as enabled.
So even with smooth motion I see an improvement in dropped/repeated frames with changing the refresrate.

I guess I could try a custom refreshrate with reclock, but I can already send 23.976 and 24.000Hz to my tv, which makes me lose 4:4:4 chroma.
Using ≈ 60Hz (59.94 and 60.00Hz) I keep 4:4:4 chroma. Since this is a limitation in the display (as far as I can tell) I really doubt re-clock will do any difference.
What's your thougts on it?
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Old 8th November 2021, 05:40   #740  |  Link
huhn
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with SM active the drop/repeat number is still calculated but will never ever happen this is not a joke you will not drop or repeat a frame for sync reasons. it should be remove so user don't get confused it's clearly miss leading.

for a custom resolution i would try 48 from the usual also PC mode 50. custom resolution that change the refreshrate are unlikely to work on modern TVs.
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