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Old 5th March 2011, 06:24   #281  |  Link
ranpha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burfadel View Post
Kind of along the lines of like in the pic, the alpha-blending looks excellent, even on poor backgrounds (for transparency) like it appears like you have there. For those saying don't take design cues because WMP has a broken UI, the simple thing is... don't copy those elements! Instead, you can fix them. I think a thicker seek bar woudl be better, and a thicker endpoint, maybe even in a different colour (green?, but with the same shading styling, definitely not solid), that way there is no confusion where the seekbar is at. I guess if you pause it, that end button could go yellow, and when not playing anything (stopped), red? just an idea.
MPC-HC seekbar is already thicker than what WMP12 has. It already has a fully visible progress indicator. Color? That's more of personal preference. The current white is pretty OK for me. As for transparency, you can already do that with third-party tools if that's your thing. Not my thing though.
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Old 5th March 2011, 10:33   #282  |  Link
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Transparency and alpha blending is different. alpha blending is like the windows 7 taskbard, and programme window frames (especially the top bar). transparency can look really crap! When I wrote that, I was referring to what could be better with the WMP pic, I realised re-reading that it might cause some confusion

Alpha-blending isn't a necessity for the media player, its just a nicety to appeal to users and it can be turned off
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Old 5th March 2011, 17:33   #283  |  Link
ranpha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burfadel View Post
Transparency and alpha blending is different. alpha blending is like the windows 7 taskbard, and programme window frames (especially the top bar). transparency can look really crap! When I wrote that, I was referring to what could be better with the WMP pic, I realised re-reading that it might cause some confusion

Alpha-blending isn't a necessity for the media player, its just a nicety to appeal to users and it can be turned off
Transparency can be achieved by using alpha blending, kinda what like you can do with MPC-HC (with third-party programs) and Winamp (built-in feature). So they are closely related.
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Old 5th March 2011, 17:43   #284  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
If it wasn't better, why copy it?
Because it looks better and is desirable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
I believe that you cannot demonstrate how WMP12 seekbar would be superior than MPC-HC's
It would be functionally the same but look better which would make it an improvement.


Who here has Windows 7 and disables aero glass because it isn't better, just 'different' ? ...No one? Oh wait, just you, ranpha


This shows better what I had in mind...



I tried making it bigger but didn't look right. It is a copy paste job from WMP12. Anyone but ranpha have anything bad to say about it with an explanation?
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Old 6th March 2011, 01:26   #285  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post
Because it looks better and is desirable.


It would be functionally the same but look better which would make it an improvement.


Who here has Windows 7 and disables aero glass because it isn't better, just 'different' ? ...No one? Oh wait, just you, ranpha


This shows better what I had in mind...



I tried making it bigger but didn't look right. It is a copy paste job from WMP12. Anyone but ranpha have anything bad to say about it with an explanation?

It looks better and desirable? Maybe it is just you. For me, it doesn't look better, it just looks different. I definitely doesn't desire a seekbar that isn't an improvement.

How about showing how WMP12 seekbar is superior to MPC-HC seekbar next time please. You know, like how Splash Player seekbar is superior to what MPC-HC has?



Now this is a feature that deserved to be copied (better than WMP12 and MPC-HC for sure). That would be a huge undertaking though, therefore I would not ask the developers to do it.
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Old 6th March 2011, 03:53   #286  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
How about showing how WMP12 seekbar is superior to MPC-HC seekbar next time please.
See...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post
It would be functionally the same but look better which would make it an improvement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
Now this is a feature that deserved to be copied
Not interested... Chintzy (gaudy and tasteless).
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Old 6th March 2011, 04:07   #287  |  Link
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Prove to me that it looks better. You can't.

Splash Player seekbar doesn't look better than MPC-HC seekbar either, but it is more functional. Calling it gaudy proves that you prioritize looks over functions.

If there are no improvement function-wise, there are no reason at all to copy WMP12 seekbar. It may look better to you, but can you say that for all people that uses MPC-HC/WMP12? Or even amjority of them.
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Old 6th March 2011, 16:24   #288  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
Prove to me that it looks better.
No.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
Splash Player seekbar doesn't look better than MPC-HC seekbar either, but it is more functional. Calling it gaudy proves that you prioritize looks over functions.
It proves I do not want to look at that hideous mess of a GUI for features that I do not care about. Call me old fashioned, but I like my seekbar to be a just a seekbar. MPC-HC's seekbar is already perfect in function. I doubt you can improve upon it, but do have a go if you can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
If there are no improvement function-wise, there are no reason at all to copy WMP12 seekbar. It may look better to you, but can you say that for all people that uses MPC-HC/WMP12? Or even amjority of them.
I will answer your point the same as before. The reason to copy it is to look better. Please try and make note of that. I am getting a little tired of repeating myself. And yes. I can say that the majority of people will like it. I do have a sense of taste you know.
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Old 6th March 2011, 17:26   #289  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post

It proves I do not want to look at that hideous mess of a GUI for features that I do not care about. Call me old fashioned, but I like my seekbar to be a just a seekbar. MPC-HC's seekbar is already perfect in function. I doubt you can improve upon it, but do have a go if you can.



I will answer your point the same as before. The reason to copy it is to look better. Please try and make note of that. I am getting a little tired of repeating myself. And yes. I can say that the majority of people will like it. I do have a sense of taste you know.
Splash Player seekbar has that mini-preview function, which neither MPC-HC or WMP12 doesn't have. That alone makes it better than what those two players has. It wasn't the look that makes Splash Player seekbar better, it was the extra functionality that makes it better. In fact, I didn't know any other player that has similar functions.

And it is only you who think that WMP12 seekbar looks better. For me, it doesn't look better, it is just different. And let me repeat this again: There are no reason whatsoever for MPC-HC to copy WMP12 seekbar at all. It doesn't look better. And here's the kicker, I can say that the majority of people will agree with me. I do have a sense of functionality you know. At least, if the seekbar need to be changed, at least do it for a better one. WMP12 seekbar is not better than what MPC-HC currently has.
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Old 6th March 2011, 17:36   #290  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
Splash Player seekbar has that mini-preview function, which neither MPC-HC or WMP12 doesn't have. That alone makes it better than what those two players
Don't care / not interested / makes it worse / bloatware.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
There are no reason whatsoever for MPC-HC to copy WMP12 seekbar at all.
Yes there is. It is to improve the look of the interface to make it more pleasant to look at.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
I do have a sense of functionality you know.
Hey me too . That's why I kept functionality the same in my suggestion so as not to impede usability as your suggestion does.
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Old 6th March 2011, 17:42   #291  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post
Don't care / not interested / makes it worse / bloatware.
Therefore, I am right to say that you prefer look over function earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post
Yes there is. It is to improve the look of the interface to make it more pleasant to look at.
Only you says that WMP12 looks better. Do you think everyone shares your view? I dare say the answer is no. WMP12 seekbar doesn't look better to my eyes, and as I say before, you won't be able to prove it empirically.


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Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post
Hey me too . That's why I kept functionality the same in my suggestion so as not to impede usability as your suggestion does.
My suggestion actually improves functionality. Yours doesn't.
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Old 6th March 2011, 18:10   #292  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
Therefore, I am right to say that you prefer look over function earlier.
No you're not. See...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post
It proves I do not want to look at that hideous mess of a GUI for features that I do not care about. Call me old fashioned, but I like my seekbar to be a just a seekbar. MPC-HC's seekbar is already perfect in function. I doubt you can improve upon it, but do have a go if you can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
Only you says that WMP12 looks better. Do you think everyone shares your view? I dare say the answer is no.
No big deal. Probably it is trivial to add an option to keep the old, classic seekbar.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
WMP12 seekbar doesn't look better to my eyes, and as I say before, you won't be able to prove it empirically.
Hmmm. Should I at least try to prove it? For my answer, see...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post
No.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
My suggestion actually improves functionality. Yours doesn't.
Agreed. That was rather my point. *rollseyes*



And you you still were not yet able to answer my question. You insisted that the WMP12 seekbar is broken. In what way is it broken?
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Old 6th March 2011, 18:26   #293  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post
No you're not. See...
But when I say that MPC-HC should copy Splash Player seekbar that ACTUALLY ADDS FUNCTIONALITY, you resist. Hmm...

Yet, you

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post
No big deal. Probably it is trivial to add an option to keep the old, classic seekbar.
Even it Splash Player, the SmartSeek function is optional you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post
Hmmm. Should I at least try to prove it? For my answer, see...
Oh you cannot prove it empirically after all.

Meanwhile, I can easily prove that Splash Player seekbar is better, by just pointing to the SmartSeek feature. Which seems to be exclusive only for it, and is optional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post

And you you still were not yet able to answer my question. You insisted that the WMP12 seekbar is broken. In what way is it broken?
Did I say the WMP12 seekbar is broken?

What I have said were:-

- WMP12 seekbar is different, and not better.
- Meanwhile, WMP12 GUIs as a whole is broken beyond help.

Therefore, it is waste of developers time and energy just to reimplement a new seekbar that doesn't even universally accepted to be aesthetically better than MPC-HC current seekbar. If it adds new functionality, then I don't mind. But it doesn't, therefore the developers are better off spending their time fixing decoder bugs (the latest stable build seems to have some DXVA problems with ATI GPUs) than reimplementing a new seekbar that doesn't improve functionality.
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Old 6th March 2011, 22:28   #294  |  Link
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In your opinion, mind.
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Old 6th March 2011, 22:45   #295  |  Link
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Just installed Splash Player. The seekbar is even worse than MPC or WMP12. It makes me sad that you would try and ruin the MPC-HC project with this bloat and bad design, ranpha. Shame on you.

For others, Splash Player is your typical commercial bloatware which is all the beauty is only skin deep. It wouldn't even deinterlace the video and there is only very basic control over the options. It is dumbed down trying to get $19.99 out of dumb users that don't know any better.
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Old 7th March 2011, 01:33   #296  |  Link
ranpha
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Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post
In your opinion, mind.
So, stop putting words in my mouth that I said WMP12 seekbar is broken. Just go see my past posts in this thread (I don't edit them) and quote me then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post
Just installed Splash Player. The seekbar is even worse than MPC or WMP12. It makes me sad that you would try and ruin the MPC-HC project with this bloat and bad design, ranpha. Shame on you.

For others, Splash Player is your typical commercial bloatware which is all the beauty is only skin deep. It wouldn't even deinterlace the video and there is only very basic control over the options. It is dumbed down trying to get $19.99 out of dumb users that don't know any better.
Huh? Splash Player is at least less bloated than WMP12 ever will be. It can deinterlace videos easily (on GPU), the fact that you said that it wouldn't sums everything about your knowledge of media players really.

As for design, it wasn't the best (definitely not better than MPC-HC is), but at least is less confusing than WMP12 can ever be. It also has features that WMP12 or MPC-HC doesn't have, such as the motion interpolation and/or frame doubler and HD audio bitstreaming, which MPC-HC doesn't have built-in (you will need third-party tools) and WMP12 will never have.

And of course, that seekbar. If there is something Splash Player has that is FUNCTIONALLY SUPERIOR (and not aesthetically) than either MPC-HC or WMP12 is, it is the SmartSeek seekbar. The ability to preview videos before scrubbing is definitely a nice feature to have, and it is optional too.
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Old 7th March 2011, 02:03   #297  |  Link
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So, stop putting words in my mouth that I said WMP12 seekbar is broken. Just go see my past posts in this thread (I don't edit them) and quote me then.
We were discussing the seekbar only and you repeatedly said things like WMP has always had broken and unintuitive GUIs. So it's your own fault lol.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
Huh? Splash Player is at least less bloated than WMP12 ever will be. It can deinterlace videos easily (on GPU), the fact that you said that it wouldn't sums everything about your knowledge of media players really.
Yup sure. I can't believe you paid $19.99 for the pro version. No wonder you are mad lol.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
As for design, it wasn't the best (definitely not better than MPC-HC is), but at least is less confusing than WMP12 can ever be. It also has features that WMP12 or MPC-HC doesn't have, such as the motion interpolation and/or frame doubler and HD audio bitstreaming, which MPC-HC doesn't have built-in (you will need third-party tools) and WMP12 will never have.
Cool! Sounds super awesome! I wish I could have that. But as you say, my knowledge of media players is too low :'(



Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post
And of course, that seekbar. If there is something Splash Player has that is FUNCTIONALLY SUPERIOR
No it isn't. I tried it.
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Old 7th March 2011, 02:23   #298  |  Link
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We were discussing the seekbar only and you repeatedly said things like WMP has always had broken and unintuitive GUIs. So it's your own fault lol.
Yet, you want to accuse me of saying that WMP12 seekbar is broken, when clearly I do not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post
Yup sure. I can't believe you paid $19.99 for the pro version. No wonder you are mad lol.

Cool! Sounds super awesome! I wish I could have that. But as you say, my knowledge of media players is too low :'(
It has a trial you know. Plus, there are other methods...

And I don't really see you disproving my assertion that it can do pixel-adaptive hardware deinterlacing. That disproves your assertion that Splash Player cannot do.

Next time, if you want to make false accusations (like accusing me of saying 'WMP12 seekbar is broken' or 'Splash Player doesn't do deinterlacing'), how about doing some fact-checking first?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.duck View Post
No it isn't. I tried it.
So apparently you think the Smartseek isn't a feature. At least I can quantify that Splash Player seekbar has extra features in it.
Can you say the same thing about WMP12 seekbar, that looks beautiful to your eyes only? That you want MPC-HC to copy?

At least I won't insist MPC-HC developers to copy Splash Player seekbar (the internal splitters needs to be fixed too for that to happen - which is a huge undertaking).
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Old 7th March 2011, 02:27   #299  |  Link
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I'm confused. What point are you trying to make?
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Old 7th March 2011, 02:32   #300  |  Link
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I'm confused. What point are you trying to make?
Let me repeat what I say then. If there are no new functionality, do not replace the seekbar. That's about it. Replacing it because of a reason like 'WMP12 seekbar look better and desirable' is a waste of time, considering other bugs in MPC-HC.

Developers are better off fixing the 10-bit/floating point renderer issues (or maybe, give EVR custom presenter a proper 2-pass bicubic upscaler) is better than a brand new seekbar that doesn't have a new functionality.

After all, what looks good for you doesn't mean it looks good for everyone else.
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