[GUIDE] Smooth playback with madVR and no Smooth Motion/Reclock

[CarlosCaco]

I tried some more and can get DTD working on my intel, so i used this guide and on the first try i get a very good result only with the first part of the guide, pickup a pixel clock for 23,976, calculated on CRU and made the resolution on DTD (is very similar to CRU) and get a frame drop every 2,86 hours... thats great... but how i can count the seconds for that? if i assume that 86 are minutes so i will do 206 x 60 = 12360 seconds. But if 86 were minutes, why the hell madVR wil report 2,86 hours and not 3,26 hours... so i can assume that 86 is not minutes, 86 can be fraction of an hour? if is this i put 2,86 on time conversor and get 2,86 hours = 10296 seconds...
does anyone knows what is the correct math here?

if you guys accord i can write a appendice to your guide to use your method on intel with DTD calculator! thats a good thing for people like me who is stacked on intel because nvidia optimus... i see lots and lots of people complaning about the intel drivers limitation, and really surprise me how easy i achieved a decent result, but i want do the rest of correction, can you guis help with calcules?
really great this guide

btw if a intel user ready this, the thing is if we use the values showed in cru on intel control panel, we don ´t get the same results because intel alters the blanking and total pixels... but if use on DTD works like expected... also intel control panel only allow to use interger values for refresh rate ex 24.000 but not 23,976... but with DTD you can apply this values...

[ashlar42]

If you write an addendum for Intel, I would gladly add it to the guide (crediting you).

It's always fractions of hours, you multiply by 3,600 to get the seconds. You were correct, basically. I'll clarify in the guide where needed.

I am glad you found it useful.

[robl45]

Could you explain exactly what we are doing here. I've read your instructions 5 times now and I don't understand the relationship between the two programs. For example, I have an nvidia GTX960 I bring up CRU and detailed resolution I pick 1920x1080, put in refresh 23.976 and I get 23.977 actual when using automatic lcd timings. Then I go manual and basically adjust any one parameter down one and I get 23.976 actual. So what is the PCC used for? Further which parameter is best to adjust? I had done this before and had a problem with my wireless HDMI as it didn't like the non standard settings and would keep losing sync. As for the audio renderer, are you saying that testing this having reclock using original frame rate for media correction will not work?

EDIT: While I still don't fully understand whats going on with both programs, I did try editing custom resolution in the nvidia control panel. It appears that it messes up 3d resolution though.

[ashlar42]

robl45, I'll try to summarize.

madVR provides us with different information that informs us of the clock deviations of video and audio clock, measured against the system clock as a reference.

For the audio clock you get the self explaining Clock deviation entry in the OSD; if the audio clock had no deviation you would get 0.00000%. For the video clock you need to look a the measured refresh rate (Display entry in the OSD) against the refresh rate you would expect from the timings you used; if the video clock had no deviation, by using perfect 24/1.001 timings you would get Display 23.97602.

The frame drop/repeat entry in the OSD is the result of a calculation that takes into account both clock deviations and how they interact. Not wanting to resample audio, we can't change the audio clock. We cannot even change the video clock (it's simply not doable). What we can do is, basically, cheat in producing a slightly higher or slightly lower refresh rate (compared to the optimal 23.97602 in case of movie content), in order to compensate the interaction between audio and video clock.

Quoting once more madshi:

If e.g. the measured refresh rate is 24.24000Hz (1% too fast for 24.000 content) and the audio deviation is exactly 1%, too, then there should be no frame drops/repeats. If the video/audio deviation differs, there have to be drops or repeats.

This is exactly what we achieve by cheating. We cannot change the video clock, we want to leave the audio untouched. So, taking into consideration the video clock deviation we aim for a refresh rate that compensates audio/video clocks deviations. The refresh rate you get, compared to the timings you input, is a result of the video clock deviation. You cannot change the video clock but you most definitely can change the refresh rate you aim at.

Have I managed to be clearer?

[robl45]

I understand what you are doing, its the getting there with the two pieces of software that I don't understand. I did try it with the CRU and that messed up the system really badly. I tried just playing with the custom refresh rate in the nvidia control panel and that seemed to mess up the 3d refresh rate. At this point I'm just using the internal intel graphics that can do 23.976 without a problem, but it sucks because its a waste of the GTX950 card.

Originally Posted by ashlar42

robl45, I'll try to summarize.

madVR provides us with different information that informs us of the clock deviations of video and audio clock, measured against the system clock as a reference.

For the audio clock you get the self explaining Clock deviation entry in the OSD; if the audio clock had no deviation you would get 0.00000%. For the video clock you need to look a the measured refresh rate (Display entry in the OSD) against the refresh rate you would expect from the timings you used; if the video clock had no deviation, by using perfect 24/1.001 timings you would get Display 23.97602.

The frame drop/repeat entry in the OSD is the result of a calculation that takes into account both clock deviations and how they interact. Not wanting to resample audio, we can't change the audio clock. We cannot even change the video clock (it's simply not doable). What we can do is, basically, cheat in producing a slightly higher or slightly lower refresh rate (compared to the optimal 23.97602 in case of movie content), in order to compensate the interaction between audio and video clock.

Quoting once more madshi:

This is exactly what we achieve by cheating. We cannot change the video clock, we want to leave the audio untouched. So, taking into consideration the video clock deviation we aim for a refresh rate that compensates audio/video clocks deviations. The refresh rate you get, compared to the timings you input, is a result of the video clock deviation. You cannot change the video clock but you most definitely can change the refresh rate you aim at.

Have I managed to be clearer?

[ashlar42]

Originally Posted by robl45

I understand what you are doing, its the getting there with the two pieces of software that I don't understand. I did try it with the CRU and that messed up the system really badly. I tried just playing with the custom refresh rate in the nvidia control panel and that seemed to mess up the 3d refresh rate. At this point I'm just using the internal intel graphics that can do 23.976 without a problem, but it sucks because its a waste of the GTX950 card.

Hmmm, ok. I personally use a GTX 660 with no problem (it even survived the upgrade to Windows 10 from 8.1, by just reimporting the CRU settings I had exported previously as a backup).

Considering it's somewhat unintuitive nature, I suspect there might be human error at play here. You really should write in CRU's forums, its author usually answers quickly. If CRU had widespread problems with Nvidia cards we would have heard by now.

[chros]

Originally Posted by CarlosCaco

I tried some more and can get DTD working on my intel, so i used this guide and on the first try i get a very good result only with the first part of the guide, pickup a pixel clock for 23,976, calculated on CRU and made the resolution on DTD (is very similar to CRU) and get a frame drop every 2,86 hours... thats great... but how i can count the seconds for that? if i assume that 86 are minutes so i will do 206 x 60 = 12360 seconds. But if 86 were minutes, why the hell madVR wil report 2,86 hours and not 3,26 hours... so i can assume that 86 is not minutes, 86 can be fraction of an hour? if is this i put 2,86 on time conversor and get 2,86 hours = 10296 seconds...
does anyone knows what is the correct math here?

if you guys accord i can write a appendice to your guide to use your method on intel with DTD calculator! thats a good thing for people like me who is stacked on intel because nvidia optimus... i see lots and lots of people complaning about the intel drivers limitation, and really surprise me how easy i achieved a decent result, but i want do the rest of correction, can you guis help with calcules?
really great this guide

btw if a intel user ready this, the thing is if we use the values showed in cru on intel control panel, we don ´t get the same results because intel alters the blanking and total pixels... but if use on DTD works like expected... also intel control panel only allow to use interger values for refresh rate ex 24.000 but not 23,976... but with DTD you can apply this values...

How did you managed to apply the calculated entries?
What display did you used, is it with HDMI?
Thanks

@ashlar42: thanks for the detailed guide. Although I'm an Intel (optimus) user

[Stereodude]

FWIW, I lost HDMI audio on my GTX1080 when I tried to follow the directions in the first post and created a custom EDID block. Instead I used the Nvidia driver to create a custom resolution using the numbers from CRU and PPC. I was able to use timings from PPC that gave an exact match to enter timing parameters for 24/1.001. MadVR measures it as 23.975, but it was in the frame drop every 7.5 hour range after a 2 hour movie and it had 0 drops or repeats for the whole thing. An attempt to further tweak it gave worse results, so I went back.

madVR will switch into the driver's custom resolution instead of the default 23.97Hz mode.

[ashlar42]

Hi Stereodude, are you sure to have added the correct custom blocks to EDID? CRU offers HDMI audio as a custom block to add (I should actually add this to the guide, it's CRU specific but the fact remains that people have reasonable expectations to read this guide and NOT lose their audio). Then again, if you have managed to get into the 7.5 hours range before a drop... I wouldn't bother fixing what ain't broken.

Edit: see here http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Th...highlight=hdmi which is the same post I link in the guide. Look for this paragraph: "For audio support, import one of these extension block files"

Edit 2: I've added a clarification in the guide. Thanks for replying here Stereodude, as that gave me the chance to fix this.

[CarlosCaco]

Originally Posted by chros

How did you managed to apply the calculated entries?
What display did you used, is it with HDMI?
Thanks

Hey chros and everybody first sorry to all i said that i will write the intel part but did not have time yet...

I m using an hdtv with hdmi

For now i tell a simple way that s not the better way to put the values on the dtd, when i got the time i will right with details and pictures a better way...

For now do this:

Follow the instructions on this Guide and apply the values on CRU, when you restart the drive Intel will not reconize the new edid but madvr will show a new display entry... Go on this new display entry copy the raw edid information....
In dtd paste this on invert calculation and get calculate...
Once calculate choose resolution you made in cru, go to registry hack section on the dtd calculate and apply this dtd and write to register...

The system will restart and if all go right you will got the new resolution...

Reading some Guides about its adverted that in some systems intel will not accept a resolution that is the same to a pre existed resolution ex: 1920x1080p24 if your tv already have this mode... If this happen
You have to made a different resolution like: 1919x1080p24... On my
System i don t have this problem but you maybe get this situariam... Also on my system dtd calculator only work with externas display and don t work with the internal display...
Good luck!

[chros]

Originally Posted by CarlosCaco

Follow the instructions on this Guide and apply the values on CRU, when you restart the drive Intel will not reconize the new edid but madvr will show a new display entry... Go on this new display entry copy the raw edid information....
In dtd paste this on invert calculation and get calculate...
Once calculate choose resolution you made in cru, go to registry hack section on the dtd calculate and apply this dtd and write to register...

The system will restart and if all go right you will got the new resolution...

Reading some Guides about its adverted that in some systems intel will not accept a resolution that is the same to a pre existed resolution ex: 1920x1080p24 if your tv already have this mode... If this happen
You have to made a different resolution like: 1919x1080p24... On my
System i don t have this problem but you maybe get this situariam... Also on my system dtd calculator only work with externas display and don t work with the internal display...
Good luck!

Thanks, I'll try it out with 23.976 content.
Yes, my TV has all the modes in EDID (23,24,25,29,30,etc.), so maybe that's why it didn't worked for me when I played with it. If that's the case then (again) we have to wait for precious Intel to fix this 5 years old issue: https://communities.intel.com/thread...t=120&tstart=0

About "1919x1080p24" mode: will madvr resize the content in this case? (if my TV accepts this mode at all) If so, then (again) it's not a good solution.

What modes does your TV have?

[CarlosCaco]

Originally Posted by chros

Thanks, I'll try it out with 23.976 content.
Yes, my TV has all the modes in EDID (23,24,25,29,30,etc.), so maybe that's why it didn't worked for me when I played with it. If that's the case then (again) we have to wait for precious Intel to fix this 5 years old issue: https://communities.intel.com/thread...t=120&tstart=0

About "1919x1080p24" mode: will madvr resize the content in this case? (if my TV accepts this mode at all) If so, then (again) it's not a good solution.

What modes does your TV have?

Deppends, on my old tv the OS reported the resolutiona as 1919x1080 but in madvr showed 1920x1080... In my new tv the native resolution is 1366x768... The things is if madvr will scale the image just set disable scaling if... In madvr zoom options.... But i higly recommend you try the normal mode 1920x1080 more than one time with difrerents pixel clocks just to be safe that is working or not, also try the 1919x1080 option and see what happens... Its not bad as seens

[Siso]

So this guide is only for bitstreaming? How about a regular playback on a pc monitor with reclock? Right now I'm using 72 hz with cru automatic lcd standart timings, would it help if I use your guide?

[huhn]

you can stop using reclock if you follow this guide.

[Siso]

Originally Posted by huhn

you can stop using reclock if you follow this guide.

Sounds legit

[ashlar42]

Originally Posted by Siso

Sounds legit

I know I need to rephrase some stuff better in the guide, sorry for any misunderstandings about its purpose.

If you use Reclock just for smoothing playback and avoiding frame drops/repeats, yes you can avoid using it by following this guide. Even if you decode onboard and send out PCM material.

If you use Reclock for PAL speed-down, then no, you won't be able to achieve that following this guide.

The basic idea is that video follows audio. If you don't want to touch audio (like Reclock does), you need to adapt video to the minute variation that audio clock has compared to video clock. How to do it is explained in the guide.

[Siso]

Originally Posted by ashlar42

I know I need to rephrase some stuff better in the guide, sorry for any misunderstandings about its purpose.

If you use Reclock just for smoothing playback and avoiding frame drops/repeats, yes you can avoid using it by following this guide. Even if you decode onboard and send out PCM material.

If you use Reclock for PAL speed-down, then no, you won't be able to achieve that following this guide.

The basic idea is that video follows audio. If you don't want to touch audio (like Reclock does), you need to adapt video to the minute variation that audio clock has compared to video clock. How to do it is explained in the guide.

Thank you

I've tried some custom resolutions with multiple by 8 for horizontal and it seems ok

[Q-the-STORM]

This was working for me before, I reinstalled nvidia drivers and it wiped out custom resolutions.
Now I'm trying it again, but now part of the bottom of the image goes beyond the screen... (like it's vertically streched, windows task bar is half cut off)

I got windows 10 pro x64 connected to a Pioneer LX89 which connects to a LG OLED E6
this is what I set:

http://justpic.info/images4/9a52/9hPjDN.jpg

only the first one works at all, the other exact matches give me a black image (audio still works)

[ashlar42]

Q-the-STORM, what about trying CRU?

[Siso]

With sanear audio renderer, I've managed to make 1 frame repeat or drop to around 5 hours, with mpc-be audio renderer with wasapi and "sync audio to video", I've managed to make around 10 hours on 1 frame repeat or dropped. This is with exact 71.928 hz (72/1.001) refresh rate. Any suggestion to improve things even more?