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Old 9th March 2016, 09:44   #841  |  Link
odyssey
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BTW, finally, what tool did you use to mount the ISO?
Windows 10 native as you suggested Pretty cool that you can do that now.
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Old 9th March 2016, 09:57   #842  |  Link
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Does anyone have experience with 4K (passive) 3D TVs and streaming 3D movies?

Passive 3D TVs work by polarising every other line, so for Full HD TVs, it's best to encode 3D titles in "top/bottom"-mode. With 4K TVs, you wouldn't lose any pixels when playing 3D titles, but is there a way to encode them properly and be able to stream them e.g. using DLNA from a NAS?

I wonder if Full-TB or Full-SBS would work and if it would be able to stretch it properly. Is there a better way? Interleaved?

I'm currently using an older LG 3D TV, but I'm very pleased with it and might upgrade to a LG 4K TV in the future. It would be nice if I could already encode my movies properly
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Old 9th March 2016, 11:10   #843  |  Link
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.... it is impossible to have the correct final AR in both 3D and 2D modes, but anyway, who want to play a SBS movie with the 2 images side by side, even if they are not distorted?
Cross-eyed viewing perhaps (you remember the finger-focus trick)

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And with SAR 1:1, it is still possible to display one view only with a good 3D player .....
Yes, e.g. Stereoscopic player has to be forced to the DAR (16:9) rather than leaving it on "Standard", otherwise the 2D will be displayed at half width.

I also think --sar 1:1 is currently the best compromise.
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Old 9th March 2016, 14:15   #844  |  Link
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r0lZ, I must say I would be insanely grateful if you could add the feature of converting srt to ass with the use of original 3D-planes.
I'm working on the SRT to ASS 3D converter, but I have a problem with the fonts.

I know that it is possible to use a custom font and to include it as attachment in the final MKV, so that the players should be able to use the correct font to render the subtitles. But IMO the players able to do that are very rare, and it's probably never the case of most hardware players. Also, currently, I don't know how to determine the filename of the font that the user wants to use, For example, the Times New Roman font is made of 4 files: TIMES.TTF, TIMESI.TTF, TIMESBD.TTF and TIMESBI.TTF. If it seems relatively obvious that "Times New Roman" should be shortened to "Times" to obtain the correct base name of the font file, it's not as easy with other fonts. And I have no way to know if all files must be included, or only some of them. Therefore, I don't think that including the TFF file is a good option. I would prefer to give only the possibility to use an universal font, that exists on (almost) all platforms. As far as I know, only Arial, Times New Roman and Verdana are widely available (under all versions of Windows, Linux and Mac). They are also the 3 only fonts available at the subtitle3d.com web site, and that seems to confirm that they are the 3 "good" fonts to use. But perhaps there are other fonts that any player accepting the subtitles in ASS format must recognise. I've tried to find some info on that subject on the internet, but without success. So, I need some help.

Someone know what ASS/SSA fonts are recognised by all platforms, without the need to install or mux them ?

Would it be a problem if only Arial, Times New Roman and Verdana are available ?

Is it advised to offer the choice of any local font, without muxing them in the final MKV ? What do the players if they cannot use the font referenced in the ASS script ?

It seems that MPC-HC and PotPlayer display correctly the subtitles (at the specified position and with the specified font and font size). Can you confirm ? I use also Aegisub to check the placement of the fonts. Are there other players or editors to check the fonts (and especially their size and position) ?

Otherwise, I think that the rest should not be very difficult to implement. So, I think I'll do it anyway...
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Old 12th March 2016, 18:56   #845  |  Link
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3D ass subtitles

r0lZ i think you could allow user to choose their own local font. I am using MPC-HC and if it can't find the font referenced it does substitute it with its own preferred font. I don't know about the other players. As regards font styles to mux i think it should be enough to enclose just the main one, but it should be tested. I also think that muxing font should be provided as an option.
The minimalistic approach you are suggesting is for a foolproof suitable-for-all players, and I understand that but it imposes its limitations and that is not necessarily good. I would vote for having the defaults which can be overwritten and advise about the consequences of the change.
I would prefer my own font but if you decide to only support arial, times and verdana it'll still be great. The ass is editable text format and the font can be changed in the sub file manually. It's also worth noting that for many players the ass subfile can be loaded externally and doesn't have to be muxed.
I'd also suggest starting with the most simple approach and allowing for more advanced support in the future.
Many thanks

Last edited by konikpolny; 27th September 2016 at 23:46.
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Old 12th March 2016, 20:29   #846  |  Link
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Well. I think that (at least currently) I can only support the 3 "universal" fonts, for the reason explained above, but also because it seems that SubStation Alpha (SSA) does not use the same font size as the vast majority of programs. (I know that there is a difference between Point size and Pixel size, but SSA uses a third measure, totally non-standard.)

I need to know exactly the width and height of a subtitle rendered in a specific font and with a specific font size, to be able to position it correctly on screen, and minimize the risk of collisions with the objects in the foreground of the scene. That should be easy, but due to the strange font size used by SSA, it's a nightmare, because there is no direct correspondence of what I can measure in my program with what will be displayed by the SSA/ASS rendering engine. Furthermore, it seems that it is not sufficient to scale the values by a constant factor. That works somewhat, but the factor is different for each font! It is a pain to evaluate it, and I spent several hours to do it for the 3 universal font. I don't want to do it with all fonts available with Windows, and there is no way to automate that task. Therefore, the user will have to use one of the 3 fonts if he wants approximately correct results. It is still possible, as you suggest, to change the font and/or font size with a text editor, but that will be at your own risk. I can't support that officially.

BTW, I really don't understand some decisions of SSA. In (almost) all programs, the RGB colours are expressed in that order: R, G, B. Except in SSA/ASS, where it's the opposite: B, G, R! Converting between RGB to BGR is easy, but that forces to intercept the font color changes in the original SRT to convert them to the correct ASS format. Anyway, the anti-standard used by SSA is confusing, and IMO completely stupid! The problem of the font size is much more important, as afaik there is no way to solve it. (Of course, it you use a program such as Aegissub, the font size doesn't matter, because the user can change it freely and see the result immediately. It's totally different when the final subtitle has to be generated by a program, and still be at a precise position and occupy a certain space on screen.)
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Old 13th March 2016, 03:09   #847  |  Link
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Just getting back into 3d after a long while. Quick question, can makemkv rip the 3d disc so that bd3d2mk3d can see it for processing? Full backup or mkv mode? I don't use anydvd.

Last edited by tyee; 13th March 2016 at 05:56.
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Old 13th March 2016, 10:02   #848  |  Link
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I don't use MakeMkv, but I think that it can do a backup suitable for BD3D2MK3D. I think also that you can back up the main movie only, and that's of course an advantage in term of disc space.

You need an ISO or BD files in a directory on HDD for BD3D2MK3D. BD3D2MK3D can't accept a MKV as input.

Sorry, but I can't tell you more. Perhaps someone else can confirm?
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Old 13th March 2016, 14:54   #849  |  Link
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I make a test with a recently ISO converted to SBS with BD3D2MK3D.

I used MakeMkv to rip that ISO to a mkv output (adding MVC-3D video).

Of course BD3D2MK3D can't open the mkv produced by MakeMkv, but I use tsMuxeR to open the mkv (see attached image, maybe BD3D2MK3D can accept mkv3D and use tsMuxeR to extract tracks).

I generate a new test ISO with tsMuxeR, from the mkv, and now is accepted by BD3D2MK3D and seems work fine.

See the 2 attached log's. Forget audio and x264 parameters differences. Maybe there are a problem with subs like the info in avs show:

Original avs
Code:
# Subtitle:  Spa  PGS, 3D-plane: 0
# Subtitle:  Eng  PGS, 3D-plane: 1
# Subtitle:  Spa  PGS, 3D-plane: 2
Test avs
Code:
# Subtitle:  Spa  PGS, 3D-plane: 0
# Subtitle:  Eng  PGS, 3D-plane: 0
# Subtitle:  Spa  PGS, 3D-plane: 0
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File Type: 7z Logs.7z (4.0 KB, 2 views)
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Old 13th March 2016, 15:38   #850  |  Link
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Great. Thanks for the help.
Perhaps I'll add MVC MKV input support later, but currently I'm working on the ASS 3D subtitles.
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Old 16th March 2016, 05:23   #851  |  Link
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Thanks guys. I used makemkv to create a mkv with just the main movie. Then tsmuxer to create a blu-ray iso from that, then mounted with slysoft virtual clone drive. Worked great.
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Old 16th March 2016, 09:28   #852  |  Link
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With that MakeMkv+tsMuxeR method, what do you do to have the correct subtitle depths when BD3D2MK3D converts the subtitles from the re-authored BD to 3D? AFAIK, there is no way to specify the 3D-Plane number to use with a specific subtitle stream in the MKV, therefore the 3D-Plane assignments are lost. Right?
I know that it is possible to specify the 3D-Planes to use when the ISO is created with tsMuxeR, but if I implement a method to load the MKV directly in BD3D2MK3D, I will have no way to know the original 3D-Plane assignments. Or is it an info about the 3D-Planes stored in the MKV by MakeMKV, like a backup of the original MPLS? Someone knows if that info exists, and if it's the case, what and where it is?
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Old 16th March 2016, 10:48   #853  |  Link
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Why is bdsup2sub++ not recommended?

Btw, no_simpleblock seems not to be supported anymore.

A few "requests"

- It would be cool if it could show the actual number of channels on each audio stream, and perhaps be able to choose for each one weather it should extract the core or not. F.ex. in case of 7.1 tracks, I would rather keep the 7.1, but would still extract core of additional 5.1 tracks to save space.

- In case of hardsubbing, also create an AVS/CMD for non-subbed

Perhaps be able to create different configurations of a movie. Say I've processed a movie with hardsubbing, and now I want to create a version without subs and a different language, then it could create a new avs/cmd/options file in the same directory, and skip the extraction because the files are already extracted.

It's really no big deal. I just modify them manually
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Old 16th March 2016, 11:23   #854  |  Link
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Why is bdsup2sub++ not recommended?
It has a lot of bugs. Especially, when it converts some subtitle streams to XML/PNG, it generates a lot of black images and a lot of entries in the XML file for the same subtitle. It is then impossible to convert the XML to SUB or SUP. Unfortunately, it is not developed any more, so that bug cannot be fixed. (The development of the java version has stopped too, but it is more mature and has less bugs. Its well known bug of the wrong frame rate used when converting to or from XML/PNG can easily be addressed, and anyway the ++ version has the same bug.)
It's a pity, because I hate java, and the ++ version is 10 times faster, but it is too dangerous to use it currently.

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Btw, no_simpleblock seems not to be supported anymore.
OK, I'll verify that. Can you confirm that the option is simply useless, or does it make MkvMerge crash?

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Originally Posted by odyssey View Post
A few "requests"

- It would be cool if it could show the actual number of channels on each audio stream, and perhaps be able to choose for each one weather it should extract the core or not. F.ex. in case of 7.1 tracks, I would rather keep the 7.1, but would still extract core of additional 5.1 tracks to save space.
It's not simple for me. And anyway, if you select the global option to extract the core in tab 2, the 7.1 track is demuxed, but the 5.1 track is muxed automatically. You can easily modify __MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt to replace it with the 7.1 version since it is on HDD.

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Originally Posted by odyssey View Post
- In case of hardsubbing, also create an AVS/CMD for non-subbed
Again, it's not as easy as it sounds. Creating a second AVS script is not really difficult, but I will have to create also the new CMD files to call the right AVS script. Anyway, it is very easy to remove the command that does the hardsubbing if you want to do the two versions. Also, new options and scripts will be confusing for the casual users.

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Originally Posted by odyssey View Post
Perhaps be able to create different configurations of a movie. Say I've processed a movie with hardsubbing, and now I want to create a version without subs and a different language, then it could create a new avs/cmd/options file in the same directory, and skip the extraction because the files are already extracted.
It's difficult for me. The normal flow of operations is already very complicated (due to the numerous options available) and I don't want to make it even harder to maintain. And I need some information available only when the whole process is made (such as the exact number of frames, available only when the streams are demuxed), so currently it's impossible. Also, I will have no way to know if the user wants to restart the whole process from scratch because something went wrong the first time, or if he wants only to generate a variant of the scripts.

Anyway, the philosophy of BD3D2MK3D is to save all files in a project directory and document them as far as possible so that an experienced user can freely modify them if he wish, instead of hiding the details of the operations in a black box, like most programs do. The drawback is that many users feel uncomfortable with that numerous and sometimes somewhat cryptic files and I don't want to make things even more complex to understand. As you said:
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It's really no big deal. I just modify them manually
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Old 16th March 2016, 11:33   #855  |  Link
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...Or is it an info about the 3D-Planes stored in the MKV by MakeMKV, like a backup of the original MPLS? Someone knows if that info exists, and if it's the case, what and where it is?
Maybe in next version:
http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewto...=13892&p=48157
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Old 16th March 2016, 11:57   #856  |  Link
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Interesting info. Thanks. Let's hope a solution will be implemented soon.
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Old 17th March 2016, 11:04   #857  |  Link
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Until then:
BD3D2MK3D Tools Extract 3D-planes from MVC is able to work with .m2ts (MVC stream) of mounted iso.
So you can extract the 3D-plane-xx.ofs from iso before ripping with MakeMKV.

Last edited by frank; 17th March 2016 at 11:08.
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Old 17th March 2016, 11:18   #858  |  Link
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For x265 encoding:
The profile info in __MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt must be
x265 main@..
not
x265 high@

I prefer Preset Faster and level 4.0.
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Old 17th March 2016, 11:27   #859  |  Link
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Until then:
BD3D2MK3D Tools Extract 3D-planes from MVC is able to work with .m2ts (MVC stream) of mounted iso.
So you can extract the 3D-plane-xx.ofs from iso before ripping with MakeMKV.
Yes, but the 3D-plane alone is useless. And AFAIK, MakeMKV doesn't remove the 3D-planes from the MVC stream, and tsMuxeR preserves them also when the ISO is created. If I'm right, the only thing that is missing in the re-authored ISO is the reference (what subtitle stream uses what 3D-plane). Saving the 3D-plane itself doesn't help.

However, I can be wrong. I don't know exactly how MakeMKV and tsMuxeR handle the SEI messages with the planes. I know for sure that tsMuxeR doesn't remove them when the stream is demuxed, and I suppose that there is no reason to remove them when it is remuxed. So, IMO, only MakeMKV can be a problem here. I can't check that myself, since I don't have the license.
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For x265 encoding:
The profile info in __MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt must be
x265 main@..
not
x265 high@

I prefer Preset Faster and level 4.0.
OK, I'll have a look...
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Old 17th March 2016, 11:56   #860  |  Link
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Hum, sorry, but it seems that it's the profile high that is used with the preset faster:
Quote:
E:\BD3D2MK3D_projects\test_faster\00015>"D:\Tcl\work\BD3D2MK3D\toolset\avs2yuv.exe" "__ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs" -frames 3084 -o - | "D:\Tcl\work\BD3D2MK3D\toolset\x264_x64.exe" --crf 22 --preset faster --sar 1:1 --range tv --colormatrix bt709 --frame-packing 3 --qpfile chapters_3D.qpfile --frames 3084 --fps 24000/1001 --output "00015_3D.264" --demuxer y4m --stdin y4m -
__ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs: 1920x1080, 24000/1001 fps, 3084 frames
y4m [info]: 1920x1080p 1:1 @ 24000/1001 fps (cfr)
x264 [info]: using SAR=1/1
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 SSE4.1 Cache64
x264 [info]: profile High, level 4.0
[3.0%] 94/3084 frames, 14.05 fps, 1172.49 kb/s, eta 0:03:32
I've also verified the other presets, and only the superfast preset gives not a high profile. In that case, it's baseline, not main. So, unless you force x264 to use the main profile by specifying additional x264 options, BD3D2MK3D is right. Or x264 is wrong.
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