YV12 FAQ - Page 3

rocker60 · 19th November 2002, 19:42

Can anyone please tell me why TestSub.VDF from Gabest-VobSub don't work in YV12?
It's suposed to work in YUY2 and YV12...
Everytime i try to load in VdMod a .AVS script with a TestSub in it, it crash withouth any
error messages.
Thx.

P.s: Keep the great work in Avisinth_Yv12!!!

SansGrip · 19th November 2002, 23:21

Question 6:

Blockbuster supports YV12 as of 0.5

.

Wilbert · 20th November 2002, 10:29

Quote:

Can anyone please tell me why TestSub.VDF from Gabest-VobSub don't work in YV12?
It's suposed to work in YUY2 and YV12...

Yes, because textsub/vobsub doesn't work in YV12. Gabest told me that only dvobsub works also in YV12. I asked him to make a version for AviSynth 2.5 but there are some issues he want to see resolved. Sh0dan knows more about this ...

sundance · 22nd November 2002, 16:57

Being an absolute rookie to this color space stuff:
Could anyone please point out, how the bits of the YUV components are allocated to the 12 bits of YV12?
How's it with YUY2 (are there 16 or 18 bits)?
And how is "4:2:2" or "4:2:0" related to the above?

smokeslikeapoet · 23rd November 2002, 04:26

@sundance

You can view technical information about YV12 here:
http://www.fourcc.org/fccyuv.htm#YV12
I've digested the information and posted it here:
http://www.everwicked.com/forums/sho...&threadid=1645

I knew very little about colorspace before a few hours of research a few days ago.

sundance · 23rd November 2002, 09:16

@smokes,

thanks a lot for the knowledge compilation and your links.
Just what I was looking for. Plenty of stuff to read (and to understand, too)!

-sundance-

sh0dan · 26th November 2002, 11:00

I also put up some information at the bottom of the Alpha page. Also some useful links.

Wilbert · 26th November 2002, 16:57

@Sh0dan,

Quote:

I also put up some information at the bottom of the Alpha page. Also some useful links.

1) I'm not sure what you mean. I copied the links to the YV12 resource pages (see 14). Let me know if you mean something else.

2) I'm updating the Q&A for YV12 and AviSynth v2.5. If it is ready should I commit it to the 2.1 branch (or both branches)?

3) Is it still true that v2.0x plugins (I remember you discussed it with Richard somewhere) will be useable in the first beta of v2.5?

4) Will there be a v2.08 or is v2.5 the next version?

trbarry · 26th November 2002, 18:43

From the first page of the faq:

Quote:

10. Is YV12 & AVISynth 2.5 just for Xvid/DivX or can it be used for conversions to MPEG1 or MPEG2 (DVD to (S)VCD) via TMPGenc or CCE? Or do these 2 encoders not support YV12?

Neither CCE nor TMPGEnc can use YV12 input since Windows has no internal YV12 compressor. This only means that the last line of AviSynth must be a ConvertToYUY2 (for CCE, or ConvertToRGB24 for TMPGEnc) call, and that you will not be able to take full advantage of YV12 colorspace. All internal filtering in AviSynth will be faster though (less data to filter, better structure to filter, and a very fast conversion from YV12 to YUY2), and you will definitely be able to tell the difference between 2.06 and 2.5.

If you are making a progressive clip then there is probably more than just a speed advantage.

Putting off the YV12->YUY2 conversion until the end of the script allows you to first IVTC or Deinterlece to create progressive frames. But the YV12->YUY2 conversion for progressive frames maintains more chroma detail than it does for interlaced or field based frames.

So there should also be a small quality advantage.

- Tom

sh0dan · 28th November 2002, 09:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Wilbert
1) I'm not sure what you mean. I copied the links to the YV12 resource pages (see 14). Let me know if you mean something else.

Not at the moment.

Quote:

2) I'm updating the Q&A for YV12 and AviSynth v2.5. If it is ready should I commit it to the 2.1 branch (or both branches)?

It should only be comitted to the 2_1 branch - I had planned on copying the 2.0 documentation for the first beta, and then correct it, as the beta phase went along. So just copy the documentation from the main branch (with the latest changes) to 2_1 branch. I haven't updated any documentation for 2.5 yet.

Quote:

3) Is it still true that v2.0x plugins (I remember you discussed it with Richard somewhere) will be useable in the first beta of v2.5?

No - I can see no way for that to be possible, without putting back some bad restrictions into 2.5 (all audio work, and much YV12 support will not be possible, if they have to remain compatible

)
The first beta will also invalidate ALL 2.5 alpha, since the plugin load'er will change, so that 2.0 will not try to load 2.5 plugins (and crash) and vice versa.
It is however only a 5 second fix and a recompile necessary to make alpha filters work in the beta.

Quote:

4) Will there be a v2.08 or is v2.5 the next version?

2.0x will still be bug-fixed, but all new features will go into 2.5!
2.0x is the "stable" version, but will probably die out.

smokeslikeapoet · 6th December 2002, 10:01

It looks like the link to Mpeg2Dec3 has been down for a couple of days, in case anyone needs it you can find it here http://smokeslikeapoet.d2g.com . By the way, if any other coders need mirrors for their YV12 compatible AVISynth filters. I am more than willing to host them. In a few weeks I will have increased bandwidth and resources to host filter development pages as well. My only motive in doing this is that I want to teach myself and gain experience in managing a large number of users on a linux platform. As long as you're not going to tax my bandwith too much feel free to contact me. william at techwill.net

Snollygoster · 16th December 2002, 08:13

Sorry if this may sound stupid but do the IVTC and Deinterlace filters work with YV12?

hakko504 · 16th December 2002, 09:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Snollygoster
Sorry if this may sound stupid but do the IVTC and Deinterlace filters work with YV12?

Decomb and TomsMoComp have been updated to use YV12.

vidiot · 20th December 2002, 17:50

I hope I understand everything written about YUV12 vs. YUV2...

I would like to know more about that issue:
1. The MPGs on DVDs are saved in YUV12? Right?
2. I do convert (and maybe filtering) to YUV2! (Right?)
3. And the encoder (regardless if TMPenc or CCE) makes YUV12 out
of it or YUV2???

If the DVD MAterial is YUV12 - why not decode in Yuv12 - as with avisynth 2.5 - and encode in YUV12 -> not possible? Or just not possible right now? Do we have to wait for a special YUV12 Encoder?

A second question: Which codec should I use for tv captures in future?
I do use PICvideo for the moment (and I´m still very happy...), but maybe there is a way to increase the speed of editing after capture by doing the capture with the right codec.
Is XVID comparable (quaitywise) with picvideo Q19/20 - and fast enough?

kind regards
Harald

BTW: Speedincrease with DVD Backup is >10% -> Thank you...YUV12 Team!

hakko504 · 20th December 2002, 18:06

Well it's called YV12, not YUV12, but yes, that's the way it is stored on DVD's
Yes.
Yes and no.
CCE uses YUY2 as input which means that it uses YV12->YUY2->YV12 . Not bad but could be better.
TMPEG on the other hand requires RGB input so the conversion here is YV12(->YUY2)->RGB->YV12 where the second step is of course done if you use AviSynth 2.0x or earlier.

Every color conversion will introduce rounding errors, not large and usually not noticeable. They usually only become noticeable if you mix frame/field information and encode an interlaced video as framebased or vice versa. And if AviSynth2.5 becomes popular enough I'd say that sooner or later someone will make an MPEG encoder that can use YV12 input. The teams behind ReMPEG or bbMPEG maybe?

vidiot · 20th December 2002, 23:01

Quote:

Originally posted by hakko504
[list=1][*]...And if AviSynth2.5 becomes popular enough I'd say that sooner or later someone will make an MPEG encoder that can use YV12 input. The teams behind ReMPEG or bbMPEG maybe?

Thank you,

as far as I know Koepi and Nic were working on an new mpegencoder,
but I haven´t heard much of it for months...
Maybe they´ll do something in that YV12 way?

Anything about my second question (codec for tv-caps)?
Then I´ll be able to do the "caps for the kids" much faster

Harald

hakko504 · 20th December 2002, 23:34

Quote:

Originally posted by vidiot
Anything about my second question (codec for tv-caps)?

Modification of HuffYuv codec for YV12

vidiot · 21st December 2002, 10:44

Thnaks again hakko,

but after reading the whole thread - there really wasn´t a
new Huffyuv for DL...
We´ll have to wait, I guess...

(Maybe Christmas eve

)

Harald

HarryM · 21st December 2002, 11:40

Quote:

Originally posted by vidiot
Thnaks again hakko,

but after reading the whole thread - there really wasn´t a
new Huffyuv for DL...
We´ll have to wait, I guess...

(Maybe Christmas eve )

Harald

Yes. You must wait. -h has christmas.

cweb · 23rd December 2002, 21:49

It would be great if they would do one capable of encoding KVCD's.

Quote:

Originally posted by vidiot
Thank you,

as far as I know Koepi and Nic were working on an new mpegencoder,
but I haven´t heard much of it for months...
Maybe they´ll do something in that YV12 way?

Anything about my second question (codec for tv-caps)?
Then I´ll be able to do the "caps for the kids" much faster

Harald

19th November 2002, 19:42	#41 \| Link
rocker60 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pt Posts: 11	TestSub.VDF from Gabest-VobSub Can anyone please tell me why TestSub.VDF from Gabest-VobSub don't work in YV12? It's suposed to work in YUY2 and YV12... Everytime i try to load in VdMod a .AVS script with a TestSub in it, it crash withouth any error messages. Thx. P.s: Keep the great work in Avisinth_Yv12!!!

19th November 2002, 23:21	#42 \| Link
SansGrip Noise is your friend Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 554	Question 6: Blockbuster supports YV12 as of 0.5 . __________________ Regards, SansGrip

23rd November 2002, 04:26	#45 \| Link
smokeslikeapoet Born to Rip Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cordova, TN, USA Posts: 140	@sundance You can view technical information about YV12 here: http://www.fourcc.org/fccyuv.htm#YV12 I've digested the information and posted it here: http://www.everwicked.com/forums/sho...&threadid=1645 I knew very little about colorspace before a few hours of research a few days ago. __________________ --SmokesLikeaPoet When wrestling alligators the gator only has to win once. Read my Adventures In HDTV Capture Blog.

26th November 2002, 11:00	#47 \| Link
sh0dan Retired AviSynth Dev ;) Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 3,480	I also put up some information at the bottom of the Alpha page. Also some useful links. __________________ Regards, sh0dan // VoxPod

6th December 2002, 10:01	#51 \| Link
smokeslikeapoet Born to Rip Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cordova, TN, USA Posts: 140	It looks like the link to Mpeg2Dec3 has been down for a couple of days, in case anyone needs it you can find it here http://smokeslikeapoet.d2g.com . By the way, if any other coders need mirrors for their YV12 compatible AVISynth filters. I am more than willing to host them. In a few weeks I will have increased bandwidth and resources to host filter development pages as well. My only motive in doing this is that I want to teach myself and gain experience in managing a large number of users on a linux platform. As long as you're not going to tax my bandwith too much feel free to contact me. william at techwill.net __________________ --SmokesLikeaPoet When wrestling alligators the gator only has to win once. Read my Adventures In HDTV Capture Blog.

22nd November 2002, 16:57	#44 \| Link
sundance Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Alpha Quadrant Posts: 163	Being an absolute rookie to this color space stuff: Could anyone please point out, how the bits of the YUV components are allocated to the 12 bits of YV12? How's it with YUY2 (are there 16 or 18 bits)? And how is "4:2:2" or "4:2:0" related to the above?

23rd November 2002, 09:16	#46 \| Link
sundance Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Alpha Quadrant Posts: 163	@smokes, thanks a lot for the knowledge compilation and your links. Just what I was looking for. Plenty of stuff to read (and to understand, too)! -sundance-

16th December 2002, 08:13	#52 \| Link
Snollygoster SwiftAVS Developer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Granite City Posts: 198	Sorry if this may sound stupid but do the IVTC and Deinterlace filters work with YV12? __________________ SwiftAVS AviSynth Script Generator

20th December 2002, 17:50	#54 \| Link
vidiot Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 144	Is there an MPEG Encoder that uses YUV12? I hope I understand everything written about YUV12 vs. YUV2... I would like to know more about that issue: 1. The MPGs on DVDs are saved in YUV12? Right? 2. I do convert (and maybe filtering) to YUV2! (Right?) 3. And the encoder (regardless if TMPenc or CCE) makes YUV12 out of it or YUV2??? If the DVD MAterial is YUV12 - why not decode in Yuv12 - as with avisynth 2.5 - and encode in YUV12 -> not possible? Or just not possible right now? Do we have to wait for a special YUV12 Encoder? A second question: Which codec should I use for tv captures in future? I do use PICvideo for the moment (and I´m still very happy...), but maybe there is a way to increase the speed of editing after capture by doing the capture with the right codec. Is XVID comparable (quaitywise) with picvideo Q19/20 - and fast enough? kind regards Harald BTW: Speedincrease with DVD Backup is >10% -> Thank you...YUV12 Team!

20th December 2002, 18:06	#55 \| Link
hakko504 Remember Rule One Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: SWEDEN Posts: 1,611	Well it's called YV12, not YUV12, but yes, that's the way it is stored on DVD's Yes. Yes and no. CCE uses YUY2 as input which means that it uses YV12->YUY2->YV12 . Not bad but could be better. TMPEG on the other hand requires RGB input so the conversion here is YV12(->YUY2)->RGB->YV12 where the second step is of course done if you use AviSynth 2.0x or earlier. Every color conversion will introduce rounding errors, not large and usually not noticeable. They usually only become noticeable if you mix frame/field information and encode an interlaced video as framebased or vice versa. And if AviSynth2.5 becomes popular enough I'd say that sooner or later someone will make an MPEG encoder that can use YV12 input. The teams behind ReMPEG or bbMPEG maybe? __________________ /hakko http://www.boardgamegeek.com

21st December 2002, 10:44	#58 \| Link
vidiot Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 144	Thnaks again hakko, but after reading the whole thread - there really wasn´t a new Huffyuv for DL... We´ll have to wait, I guess... (Maybe Christmas eve ) Harald

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