multiAVCHD - author Blu-ray/AVCHD (Blu-ray players, camcoders, Viera TV) + (HD) DVD

[DoctorM]

Flanker-B, I've seen it a lot now. I agree with you, that appears to be the cause. I haven't seen BD RB tripped up by this yet.

It DOES make stripping a bit easier better though. You should be able to remove playlists (and unique m2ts files) that you don't want without accidentally removing m2ts files in the playlists you do want. (I still need to test this more to make sure.)

Simple example:
Playlist1: English Opening Credits -> chunk of movie -> English Closing Credits
Playlist2: French Opening Credits -> (same) chunk of movie -> French Closing Credits.

BD RB links these so you can't strip playlist2 without stripping all of playlist1 as well.
multiavchd seems to make a second copy of the 'chunk of movie' that is shared by both playlists.
As a result you SHOULD be able to blank playlist2 without effect to playlist1.
If you don't strip one of the playlists though the output disc will be larger than the input.

[Flanker-B]

Yeah, I know that blanking is the only option for now in multiavchd for these kind of movies.

PS: That other problem I'm having (the truehd issue), I've found the cause (but not a solution): tsmuxer, even the latest version, has no support for truehd audio tracks if they don't have ac3 core integrated. For now there's no proper solution for that issue, unles you want to use some other software to extract that truehd audio track manually (like eac3to, or mkvcleaver - requires mkvmerge) and then converting it to ac3 or dts (using eac3to - dts requires surcode dts audio encoder which isn't free) or dts-hd (using dts-hd master audio suite - not free).

[DoctorM]

I didn't think TrueHD had a core like DTS does. Still, if so, eac3to to extract the core before starting and then use multiAVCHD you can replace the original track with the new one shouldn't be too much effort at all.

[Asmodian]

TrueHD does not have a core like DTS does but it does, usually, contain an AC3 version of the audio interleaved into the TrueHD track as a backup for players that cannot play TrueHD. This AC3 track is not required by the TrueHD track at all and if it is missing eac3to will not be able to extract it. I wonder how one would add this AC3. Could you take the TrueHD track, encode it to AC3, and interleave it with the TrueHD?

[von Suppé]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Could you take the TrueHD track, encode it to AC3, and interleave it with the TrueHD?

Yes, you can with eac3to. Input TrueHD only file. Output as .thd+ac3 file. Eac3to will (temporarily) decompress TrueHD into multi-track pcm and from that generate an AC3 (max 5.1) track. The output file will contain both the TrueHD and AC3 audio, which you can use for muxing to blu-ray.

Not much of a command-liner myself, I use UsEac3To to do that and you can set bitrate if you want, even 640 kbps.

Cheers

[Ghitulescu]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

TrueHD does not have a core like DTS does but it does, usually, contain an AC3 version of the audio interleaved into the TrueHD track as a backup for players that cannot play TrueHD. This AC3 track is not required by the TrueHD track at all and if it is missing eac3to will not be able to extract it. I wonder how one would add this AC3. Could you take the TrueHD track, encode it to AC3, and interleave it with the TrueHD?

I believe it's possible to do this. I did once and it worked, with eac3to. The exact command I found here in forum, IIRC as simple as input.THD output.AC3 or output THD+AC3.

While it's possible to mux only THD into a file (M2TS), if this is supposed to be a BD, then the player would probably refuse to play it, for being non-standard. However, it is possible that some players have more "relaxed" checks and could play a THD track without an AC-3 interleaved.

[von Suppé]

Originally Posted by Ghitulescu

... it is possible that some players have more "relaxed" checks and could play a THD track without an AC-3 interleaved.

I know there are players that will play BD with TrueHD only tracks without a problem.
But if your (pre-)amp isn't able to decode TrueHD and needs SP/DIF AC3 or analogue inputs, it's also necessary that the BD player can decode TrueHD and DA-convert into multi-channel analogue outputs, or "downconvert" the TrueHD-only track into AC3. I know there are BD players that can't do any or both.

[Music Fan]

Interesting, and when thd+ac3 is chosen as output in eac3to, does it create 2 files or one containing both tracks ? If it's one, what is its extension ?

[von Suppé]

It's one file with the extension .thd+ac3

Cheers

[Music Fan]

Thanks, can it be muxed into ts (or m2ts) and mkv ?

[von Suppé]

Latest tsMuxer can mux this .thd+ac3 file into m2ts or BD disc without a problem.

With mkv it's different: this container can't have both the TrueHD stream with the embedded AC3 in 1 single stream. Should you want both audio in a mkv container you need 2 separate streams for muxing. One AC3-only (lossy) and one TrueHD-only (lossless). You can add both files in mkvmerge (with your video and subs) and output as mkv. If you would then take a look to the output file, MediaInfo will state that there are 2 audiotracks: 1 AC3 and 1 TrueHD.

To be complete with DTS-MA it's different; the DTS-MA/core track can - must, actually - be muxed as 1 track (file) into mkv, just as you would with BD. MediaInfo says then the file has one audiotrack: DTS-MA/core (lossy & lossless).

Dolby TrueHD+AC3 and DTS-MA/core audio are different in their build-ups. As Asmodian said earlier, the Dolby audio contains an independent TrueHD (lossless) stream and is interleaved with an independent AC3 (lossy) stream.
DTS-MA/core audio contains an independent (dvd-like), lossy DTS stream and the (dependent) additional audio-data in the second stream. The 2 of them combined makes the lossless DTS-MA audio. So, actually, one would not be able to mux DTS-MA-only (as we know it for BD and mkv anyways) separately; it needs the data in the lossy DTS track.

I did read somewhere else that independent DTS-MA-only-streams do exist (so, without the lossy DTS), but with what extension and to what use I can't remember.

This post would be incomplete without me to say that, should one have supporting playback/audio equipment, it's a good alternative to recompress TrueHD or DTS-MA into flac. It takes much less space and because both input and output are lossless, no audio-information will be lost (maybe dialog normalisation, but this stands besides intrinsic audio-quality)

Cheers

[Music Fan]

Thanks von Suppé for all these explanations.
Last thing : is there a trick to mux a True HD track with an ac3 track (both having exactly the same duration) into a single .thd+ac3 file or this interleaved file can only be created from a single True HD track ?
It's just by curiosity, I understand that it's not very useful because if one really need to have another ac3 track, it can be muxed into m2ts in addition to the .thd+ac3.
The only utility I see would be to avoid to increase the total bitrate if one need an ac3 track with a different mix than the True HD track.

[von Suppé]

Interesting question, Music Fan, if I understand it right. Makes me curious also
I can't tell, to be honest.
As eac3to is somehow able to interleave its self-created AC3 stream with its TrueHD-only source, one would think it may be possible too with a TrueHD-only stream and any AC3 stream, for that matter.

If it's possible I think it has to be done with command-line, with which I am a noob. Or maybe with another, more comprehensive front-end than UsEac3to.

Considering your exact duration remark, I do wonder if the two streams have to be so.
If - within a .truehd+ac3 track - the TrueHD stream has a higher samplefrequency than the embedded AC3 stream, I can imagine these two tracks not being of exactly the same duration (pure absolutely calculated).
I think bitdepth differences should be no problem also then.
It can be fun to experiment a bit with this and see what happens.

But maybe it's easier to not re-invent a wheel and probably the cli die-hard guys in the eac3to thread in this forum can tell more about it.

Cheers

[Music Fan]

I guess it is possible (but is maybe not available yet but could perhaps be added), because just after having created the ac3 track from the True HD, thus just before interleaving them, there are 2 tracks. And I don't see the difference between taking this ac3 stream (existing as a temporary file) and another (already existing) for the interleaving operation.

[tebasuna51]

Originally Posted by von Suppé

If it's possible I think it has to be done with command-line, with which I am a noob. Or maybe with another, more comprehensive front-end than UsEac3to.

It's not possible even with command line.

BTW UsEac3to work like a command line without worry about paths to eac3to or input/output files.

[von Suppé]

Originally Posted by tebasuna51

It's not possible even with command line.

Thanks for your quick reply, tebasuna51.

Well, no need to try & find things out, Music Fan. FYI I'm following the eac3to - audio conversion tool thread too.

Cheers

[Dofin]

I am stuck with theatrical and extended version of "Tora! Tora! Tora!" movie to which I want to add french.sup subs to the extended version only.
MPLS files 00312 and 00335 are related to theatrical version and linked to 00303,00304,00305,00306,00307 and 00308.M2TS files.
For Extended version, mpls files 00313 and 00336 are linked to those M2TS files: 00304, 00306, 00308, 00309, 00310 and 00311.
Whatever mpls I've choosen to add subs to, gave me a 69 GB output which is close to an additional 30 GB for the BD. I've spent many hours with no way to resolve the issue. I've read many posts, made search but have not seen anything that could bring suggestions.
How can it be authored ? Only adding subs to one version should be easy ? Help me please!

[Dofin]

Deank:
I was wondering if this simple workaround for branched playlists (different movie versions, not series) would work for you..

1) Load your original BDMV
2) Re-author it
3) Close multiAVCHD and start it again
4) Load the re-authored BDMV folder
5) Set [x] Move transitional files [x] all
6) Blank the unwanted playlist
7) Re-author...

In reference to the above message, could you explain me more #6 ? Which mpls do I blank, keeping in mind that I want Theatrical version untouched. Extended version has already been remuxed by added subs. The first pass left me with a 69GB BRA (I choose to add subs to 00336.mpls
Thanks for your help

[setarip_old]

@Dofin

Hi!

According to "BluRay.com" The Blu-ray disc you've described (Theatrical and Extended) includes (among many others) French subtitles.If this is so, what's the nature of your problem?

[Dofin]

Not mine !