madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[flossy_cake]

Would love to hear from toilet & hun on your Samsungs burnin

[tp4tissue]

Originally Posted by Sunspark

Re: The VA panels, it isn't because of variance, it's mostly because people aren't experts and just buy based on price and size and this tends to lead to lack of options. You can't buy a new plasma because they took them off the market. Likewise, if they decided to only start manufacturing TN panels then this is what people would buy because they don't have a menu to choose from.

I think the market is going to start entering a manufacturing consolidation shift soon. It wants to move to OLED and the fact that OLED wears out is desirable to them. Doesn't really make sense to make OLEDs along with all the variants of LCD panels with all the variants of backlights like quantum dots, etc. I figure VA will be one of the first to go because for TV use IPS has wider viewing angles and gamers moved to TN for faster response time.

The market is NOT consolidating under oleds.

In fact, it's moving away from it rapidly because LCDs are killing oled in large format.

Oleds have peaked. Until China decides to turn up J-OLED, LCD is destroying OLED. LG Displays currently, the panel maker is losing money hand over fist.

LCD will continue to dominate because China has unbeatable manufacturing capacity.

It will be a really long time before OLED can compete with LCD on brightness, if-ever. This is a problem because the majority of the market watch TV during the day or with lights on where OLED just can't keep pace.

On OLED if you use hdr eotf, because of the aboslute tone curve, you have to be in a dark room.

If you don't use hdr eotf, for non-dark room, daytime viewing, then the TV basically behaves like a 300 nit peak TV. So everything looks exactly like SDR. You can get away with it on an overcast day, but on a sunny day with big windows, it's unwatchable.

If you want day light viewing, LCD is the only thing that can give an HDR like effect by stretching the mid all the way across 300-600 nits. Then capped with ~2000nit-4000nit highlights.


Oled's advantage right now, (QD oled at least) is Gamut, star-dust type textures, and viewing angle. Unfortunately these are just not enough for the average consumer, they'd rather have bigger and brighter.

The G3 isn't a bad tv relative to something much older, but it's just not very colorful, I've had it side by side with my s90c, it's completely washed out, there's just no color in it in bright scenes. Because of the way abl works, any measurement you do in a patch is not directly applicable to full scenes. G3 also produce weird artifacts near black, and it's not just the chromanance overshoot, it has a poor dithering implementation for near black gradients. Samsung's handling of near black is as good as Sony, their dithering really is that good. This is no small feat. It's very hard to control voltages that small/ precisely. LG's been at it with their oled for 10 years, and it still looks terrible.

So , you have a "more expensive" TV, that is "less colorful" AND with "poor near black handling".

What exactly motivates anyone to buy that? It fails at exactly the thing that OLED is suppose to allegedly "do well."


The 1 advantage G3 (woled) has over QD-oled, is the polarizer. For non-movie enthusiasts who can't be bothered with light control, well, there it is, it's slightly blacker in a bright room.

Huhnhuhn is extremely hyperbolic, he's clearly an autistic edgelord, and that's why we love him. He knows damn well Samsung's QD poops all over Woled, which is why he bought it, but he likes to hate on it because that's just his personality. He's the type of guy who has enormous anxiety if any possibility of happiness exists anywhere, his own or otherwise..

I think next year I will be getting a 98" wide angle VA from TCL. I like my 2x 77 s90cs alot, but they're going to the bedrooms. My friend recently got the new QM851 TCL, my god, light cannon, just WOW, like, no wayyyyy..


Finally, I am starting to shift away from the belief that perfect blacks is even possible or necessary due to the need for low voltage dithering. It's not possible to produce true black in near black textures, you can see this is scientifically true as professional oleds are often quoted for 100000:1 contrast instead of Inf:1, why, because Inf:1 is only true in test patches, and not true at the boundaries.

I dont' believe we will ever make oleds or microleds with the tolerances necessary to produce true-black in real texture applications.

The other issue is, even with blackest-black textures, most of the time, when viewing large screen sizes, your eyes blanks them out because the bright on screen elements set the iris, this causes those shadow details to be missing anyway, especially if it's moving.

So, yea, oled will always have the best black for static images, but if we have to sacrific for it, there's a shallow gradient where it's not worth it.

[flossy_cake]

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

If you want day light viewing, LCD is the only thing that can give an HDR like effect by stretching the mid all the way across 300-600 nits. Then capped with ~2000nit-4000nit highlights.

For typical HDR scenes the objects on screen should be in that 300-600 range:

LG G4 OLED - https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/g4-oled
Hallway Lights (~1950 cd/m²) 1,194 cd/m²
Yellow Skyscraper (~700 cd/m²) 719 cd/m²
Landscape Pool (~300 cd/m²) 303 cd/m²

Samsung S95D OLED - https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/s95d-oled
Hallway Lights (~1950 cd/m²) 977 cd/m²
Yellow Skyscraper (~700 cd/m²) 755 cd/m²
Landscape Pool (~300 cd/m²) 248 cd/m²

Samsung QN95C QLED - https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/qn95c-qled
Hallway Lights (~1950 cd/m²) 948 cd/m²
Yellow Skyscraper (~700 cd/m²) 702 cd/m²
Landscape Pool (~300 cd/m²) 236 cd/m²

Sony Bravia 9 QLED - https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/bravia-9-qled
Hallway Lights (~1950 cd/m²) 802 cd/m²
Yellow Skyscraper (~700 cd/m²) 628 cd/m²
Landscape Pool (~300 cd/m²) 289 cd/m²

I had a Panasonic WOLED back in 2018 and found the HDR on that was sufficiently bright for daytime viewing but it was on those demo clips like Sony Camping in Nature etc. which were probably graded with an APL boost to impress shoppers.

[Tsukinyan]

After upgrading my PC not too long ago, it seems controlling the volume in madVR with the mouse scroll wheel or keyboard arrow keys in MPC-HC feels delayed while playing. The volume percentage is a bit delayed. While paused, there is no delay. There's also no delay using the MPC video renderer.

I feel like I encountered this years ago and it was related to Gsync or something else in the NVCP. I am reasonably sure I did not have this before I rebuilt, but maybe I'm losing my mind. Anyone have any ideas?

For reference, I'm on 207, MPC-HC 2.3.7, Win 10 22H2, GTX 3090, and AMD 7800X3D.

[huhn]

it's frames rendered in advanced and maybe queue too.
it'S very delayed by design

[Tsukinyan]

Got it. It's not a big deal since I use an analog volume control on my amp. I probably just forgot and am now noticing things I wasn't looking for before. Thanks.

[Amuat]

Sorry for asking this here, but since the appropriate forum was closed and was pretty much dead anyway, is there any point in using 16-bit floating point as texture format in MPCVR instead of 8/10-bit integer when my GPU only supports 12 bpc? It changes post-processing to dither in OSD, which sounds good to me, but is it really?

[huhn]

yes it helps. bugged currently in dx11
the mpc-be maker are behind it and that thread is open.

[rod93]

Hello, a new bug has been identified in version 24h2 of Windows 11: some users are experiencing a black screen issue on their usual drives or a screen freeze when switching from exclusive mode to windowed mode. To fix this, it is recommended to disable game mode in the settings by following this path: 'Settings > Gaming > Disable game mode'."

[tp4tissue]

Just download 1809 guys, it works, very few bugs.

[flossy_cake]

everything has bugs now, its the new normal and its annoying. it's because everything is too technical nowdays, there are all these complex systems and subsystems that need to be all talking to eachother in just the right way and its too hard to make sure it all jives together and doesnt do anything wrong. i had to change my worldview because of it, now i just look at everything that works for me as a bonus, otherwise id just be mad at how things have deteriorated. i am still mad when obvious bugs make it to release tho, where you can tell they didn't even bother testing basic use case scenarios, but the solution is still to stop caring so much about pc's and screens and focus more on just enjoying what you have.

[zapatista]

good evening,

what is currently the best nvidia driver to use for madVR ?

with ms constantly forcing updates on win10, i now have bad stuttering and freezes in MPC-HC 64 bit using madVR in the last few weeks (since latest ms updates)

madVR v0.92.17
pc = win10 pro 64 bit (with whatever updates ms forces us to install),
i5 cpu with nvidia 3060 12 gb (driver dated 05/09/24 )

[Emulgator]

Somewhere around 22.10.2024 the MS update cribs hit me too and I will have a hard time rolling back those 233 force-updated OS files that came over me,
accompanied by an incurred nVidia Graphic vs. Intel Graphics (plus maybe worse Intel "System") driver incompatibility,
leading to countless DXGKRNL and other bluescreens since then.
A same-spec system starting with vanilla 22H2 (manually updated ~ Summer 2024 until end of september 2024) where I forbade any internet access is still fine.
You may want to go back there if you can, avoid the last MS Win10 22H2 October 2024 stampede.
OS version last good: 10.0.19045; the hit one: 10.0.19045
HAL: the last good: 10.0.19041.3570: the hit one: 10.0.19041.5072
nVidia: In my repos I find 561.09 as last good, 565.90 came in at my doomsday.
Mind you, this is for notebook.

[brazen1]

madVR v0.92.17 (113)
Win11 24H2 Pro 64bit up to date
Desktop Xeon X5690
GTX 960 4GB up to date driver Thu Dec 05, 2024 (566.36)
Power Management Mode-Adaptive/23Hz-12bit/60Hz-8bit
NVCleanstall_1.17.0 including workaround
Kodi v22 VideoPlayer
MPC-HC 64bit 2.3.6 Oct 5, 2024 using madVR or MpcVideoRenderer-0.8.9.2318
MPC-BE 64bit 1.8.1 Nov 7, 2024 using madVR or MpcVideoRenderer-0.8.9.2318
LAV Filters 0.79.2 (April 8, 2024)


No stuttering. No freezes. Nothing wrong. Performs perfectly as always using a wide range of different video codecs, frame rates, HDR, SDR, Ai enhanced 60fps, etc. Just sayin'.

[huhn]

try to disable hardware accelerated GPU scheduling.

[Sunspark]

Originally Posted by Emulgator

OS version last good: 10.0.19045; the hit one: 10.0.19045
HAL: the last good: 10.0.19041.3570: the hit one: 10.0.19041.5072

Does this really make sense? The HAL is part of the OS.

[Emulgator]

Well, this is what sysinfo tells me.
The version numbers Build vs. HAL do differ within the same system if that is what make you wonder.
I was mentioning that to help with anyone's comparisons tracing any faults.
Digging into MS Win10 update history:
HAL updates are pushed more frequently than I thought, the build version number stays much longer.

[vertigo220]

When setting the crop flags for a video in MKVToolNix then playing the video in PotPlayer, it displays a thick vertical green line down the center with faint blue lines on either side. This only happens with MadVR (changing the video renderer to default makes the line go away) and only when setting the top crop parameter to something other than 0 (left, right, and bottom don't cause this). I've tested on two different videos with the same exact results. This is with the latest non-beta version of MadVR (0.92.17), PotPlayer v1.7.18958, Win10 x64 Version 22H2 (OS Build 19045.4894), Nvidia 1070 with fairly updated drivers.

[huhn]

looks like madVR does not support that.
try your luck here:
http://bugs.madshi.net/my_view_page.php

[tp4tissue]

Hey huhn, I'm trying out Windows 11 + madvr v113 + mpchc + lav. On AMD it seems HDR will only trigger if I turn on Exclusive Fullscreen. Is that a bug or does it only work this way?

On windows 10 1809, it will trigger and hold hdr. even in non fullscreen exclusive.

There's also a pause now for the picture to come in when video files are initially opened..