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Old 24th August 2014, 09:05   #61  |  Link
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BD3D2MK3D v0.44

Quote:
# v0.44 (August 24, 2014)
# - It is now possible to define all subtitles of a subtitle stream as forced in tab 2.
# - Tools -> Convert subtitle to 3D (with 3D plane): New option "Force all subtitles as forced".
# - When a subtitle stream is converted to 3D or to another format and the "forced" option is enabled, all subtitles will have the forced flag set automatically.
# - When all captions of the BD subtitle stream are forced, the forced flag is now set in the _MUX_**_OPTIONS.txt files.
# - Added the director and date tags (if provided) in the global movie title of the mux options files.
# - Changed the charset of the Chapter files from ASCII to UTF-8 in the _MUX_*D_OPTIONS.txt files.
# You MUST save in UTF-8 format if you edit the chapter names and include special or accented characters.
# - Added the marginFor3DSubs option in the BD3D2MK3D.cfg file to control the number of frames to skip at the beginning and end of each subtitle to compute its 3D depth.
# - Fix: Bug when closing the output of MVCPlanes.exe when there is no 3D-plane in the MVC stream. (Thanks Gradius!)
# - Minor cosmetic changes.
# - Updated x264 to the latest version (v0.142.2453).
The main addition is the possibility to define a whole subtitle stream as forced. It's useful for the (not so rare) BD3Ds that have 2 streams in each language: one with all subtitles, and the other containing only the forced captions. When the "forced" option is set in tab 2, the subtitle stream will be considered as containing only forced subs, and the forced flag will be set to all subtitles during the conversion to 3D, and the conversion to 2D VobSub. (It's the BDSup2Sub option "--force-all set".) Similarly, the forced flag will be set in the _MUX_**_OPTIONS.txt files. A similar option has been added to the Tool -> Convert Subtitles to 3D (with 3D-plane). Use the preview to determine if a subtitle stream contains only forced subs.

The other changes are minor improvements or bug fixes. They include the UTF-8 charset for the Chapters files, and the new option to change the number of frames at the beginning and end of the subtitles, as discussed above. (Be sure to force BD3D2MK3D to save the config file before editing it if you want to change that value.)

As usual, download it here: BD3D2MK3D.7z
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Old 25th August 2014, 09:01   #62  |  Link
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IanD:
Quote:
..if Bino doesn't decode MVC, how did you play 3D to test it?
Because the 3D TV is remote, my testing requires a standard mkv I can play back through the TV via USB,
The standard output of BD3D2MK3D is 3D hSBS or 3D hTAB, not MVC. So I have tested 3D with hTAB.

If you want to play 3D MVC via USB - forget it!
1. USB is definitely not designed for 3D movies (bit rates, sizes, decoders).
2. You have to use the crippled built-in player of the TV. Most of them can not even play MKV properly. No searching, no chapters, stuttering,...

The only way is HDMI and an external player.

If someone finds a way, I am all ears.

Last edited by frank; 25th August 2014 at 09:09.
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Old 25th August 2014, 09:55   #63  |  Link
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About Bino: Can someone confirm that it supports full-SBS or full-T&B? I can't test it here because I don't have a 3D graphic card.

Also, someone has tested SView?

Note also that the KMPlayer can display SBS or T&B as anaglyph on a standard monitor with a non-3D graphic card. Not very interesting, but I use it sometimes for my tests. (Take care however. Currently, I refuse to do the updates, because that player, excellent in the past, is becoming very bloated with crapware.)

@Frank: I play my half-SBS movies from a HDD connected via USB to my Samsung TV UE40D6500 without major problems. It is true, however, that it cannot display the subtitles embedded in the MKV file, and it displays (badly) only the text subtitles outside of the MKV container. No chapters either. So, it's not a very good solution, but so far it's certainly the best 3D picture I have seen, and I have no stuttering problem. I have tried to play my SBS movie with my LaCie LaCinema (not 3D capable) connected via HDMI, but the resulting picture is not so good (poor contrast and less sharp details), there are stuttering problems, and it is a pain to have to configure the TV in 2D to browse the menus of the LaCinema, and in 3D each time a movie starts, so it's not a good solution IMO. I use it only when it is necessary to display the 3D PGS subtitles.
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Last edited by r0lZ; 25th August 2014 at 10:13.
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Old 25th August 2014, 10:46   #64  |  Link
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Due to specs Bino can play full-SBS/full-TAB but I didn't test it. That input formats and more are listed.

Cool, the Samsung built-in player can play hSBS automatically? Unbelievable. Was it not Samsung which used it's own encrypted format for records on USB?
But I'm right about MVC and USB.

I'm looking for LG, because I'm satisfied with polarized 3D. Cheap eyeglasses, bright and sharp picture. And in a distance of >1,5 m you cannot see single lines. But I don't trust the built-in players. My LG beamer plays not even standard MKV properly, and the service is very bad.

Last edited by frank; 25th August 2014 at 10:50.
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Old 25th August 2014, 11:11   #65  |  Link
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I've had Bino using frame sequential input before. I haven't actually tested a full AB/LR but it's got settings for it, so I can only assume it works as well.

Will have a look into sView and report back with my findings.

On the subject of KMPlayer, take a look at PotPlayer. It's written by the original KMPlayer author but without all the excess baggage. That's been my media player of choice for a while now, in tandem with the LAV filters. It supports half and full of both AB and LR, can auto-switch if you name the file appropriately (eg -abq is half AB) and also has a variety of output modes; though sadly it doesn't support sequential input.

*Clarity: AB = Above/Below (Over/Under), LR = Left/Right (Side-by-Side)

Last edited by Thalyn; 25th August 2014 at 11:21.
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Old 25th August 2014, 11:22   #66  |  Link
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@Frank

Yes, the Samsung player can play Half-SBS and Half-T&B. It can even recognize the 3D format automatically if the frame-packing option has been correctly set when the video has been encoded with x264 (and BD3D2MK3D sets that flag). However, it refuses to play full-SBS or full-T&B, and it stretches non-16:9 videos to occupy the full screen (so movies shot in Cinemascope and encoded after having cropped the black borders are stretched vertically). And, as I wrote above, it has terrible limitations for the subtitles and it ignores the chapters.

Yes, Samsung uses its own encryption to record the digital TV channels to a dedicated hard disc (or partition) formatted with the XFS file system (the excellent Silicon Graphics file system, but very difficult to read under Windows). But the Samsung encryption has been cracked, and if you have a rooted TV connected to your LAN, it is easy to decrypt the recordings via FTP. Anyway, the user's hard disc (or partition), with AVI, MKV, or MPEG movies, in 2D or 3D can be formatted in NTFS and of course the movies are not encrypted. Since my TV has 3 USB inputs, I use 2 discs: one for the recordings, and one with my 3D and 2D movies.

My TV can play perfectly all MKVs I have tested so far, but it is sometimes very slow to start the playback (especially the first time the file is opened, because it has to scan the file to generate its 5 thumbnails). Also, it doesn't support all codecs. It doesn't handle h264 level 5 or greater (but it is happy with level 4.1 or 4.2), and it doesn't recognize AAC audio and DTS-HD. (IMO, the impossibility to play AAC is the major codec limitation.) It plays AC3 and DTS 5.1 without problem.

The active 3D glasses are very good but somewhat expensive and heavy. In the past, the Samsung glasses did not have a good reputation because they used infrared signals, not precise enough, but currently they use bluetooth signals and they work very well. However, I must admit that the passive polarized glasses are certainly better. I bought my TV for its excellent 2D quality (much better than LG IMO), and the quality of the 3D was my second criteria. For the 3D, LG is probably a better choice.
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Last edited by r0lZ; 25th August 2014 at 11:48.
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Old 25th August 2014, 11:51   #67  |  Link
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@Thalyn

I have tested PotPlayer in the past, but I did not like it much. It was still in an early stage, so I may change my mind now. Thanks for reminding me to check it!
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Old 25th August 2014, 12:18   #68  |  Link
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BD3D2MK3D v0.45

Important bug fix for 3D subtitles

Thalyn has discovered that the BD3D2MK3D method to apply the 3D depth extracted from the 3D-planes was wrong. (See here.) The depth value extracted from the 3d-plane was correct (and the error was not related to the frames skipped at the beginning or end of the subtitle as suggested here), but I have used a wrong method to apply the depth to the original 2D subtitles.

When a subtitle is in front of the screen (with a positive depth value), the subtitle of the left view must be shifted to the right, and the subtitle of the right view must be shifted to the left. It's exactly the opposite when the depth is negative and the subtitle appears behind the screen.

In the previous versions of BD3D2MK3D, I have wrongly assumed that the number of pixels to use for the shift was the absolute value of the depth divided by 2 for each view. With that formula, the difference (in pixels) between the two pixels was exactly the depth value. But that was wrong. The number of pixels to use is the depth value for each view, and the total difference is therefore the depth value multiplied by 2. The effect of the bug was that the subtitles appeared too close to the screen that it should.

With the new version of BD3D2MK3D, the values saved in the <Depth> tags of the temporary 2D XML file are now the depth values from the 3D-planes multiplied by 2, so that the result of the conversion to 3D is now correct. As a consequence, all <Depth> tags are now even numbers (but if you edit them manually, you can use odd depth values, if you need more precision.)

That means that you should redo the conversion of your 3D subtitles if you want correct depths. Sorry for that! Note that you should not convert a XML file with <Depth> tags already inserted by a previous version without using the 3D-plane, as the wrong depth values will be retrieved from the XML and not computed with the right formula.

Thanks to Thalyn for the discovery of that important bug, and for the numerous tests he did to confirm that the current method is the right one! Since I don't have a 3D graphic card, I was unable to do that tests myself (hence the origin of the bug).

(BTW, his tests have also confirmed that PowerDVD has also a bug with the placement of the 3D subtitles, systematically off by 2 pixels.)
Quote:
# v0.45 (August 25, 2014)
# - Fix: The formula to compute the depth value extracted from the 3D-Planes was wrong. (Thanks Thalyn)
Download: BD3D2MK3D.7z
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Old 25th August 2014, 12:30   #69  |  Link
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Sorry, please wait before downloading v0.45. I have introduced a new bug! I will fix it and upload v0.45 final soon...
[EDIT] Fixed. The download is now valid.
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Old 25th August 2014, 12:35   #70  |  Link
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Thank you for your very useful info of devices.

For now I'll stick with my AOC d2367Ph monitor; IPS, mat, polarized 3D, 250 cd/m2, 2xHDMI, VGA (only 220 EUR!).
I'm using it 90 % with my Notebook, so I can just read 2 big DIN A4 pages. The second HDMI I can connect with the sat receiver.
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Old 25th August 2014, 12:46   #71  |  Link
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OK, bug fixed. You can now download v0.45.
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Old 25th August 2014, 12:49   #72  |  Link
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My reference is Avatar. And I thought the depth was ok...
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Old 25th August 2014, 13:05   #73  |  Link
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Yes, I did my tests mainly with the forced subtitles (in the Navi language) of Avatar, and most of them were OK. It's why I have deduced that the method was correct. :-(

I will re-encode Avatar with the new method to see if the result is better.
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Old 25th August 2014, 16:21   #74  |  Link
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Unfortunately I don't have Avatar to check it myself, but I am running some more titles tonight with a handful of forced subs which I'll check tomorrow against the originals (using TotalMedia Theatre for reference, due to the aforementioned PowerDVD inaccuracy). If they work out - and I have no reason to doubt that they will - than I'll put it to task on a few movies with subtitles from start to finish. Naturally I won't check all 3000+ lines when I do that but it should still be a good sample size for confidence.

If nothing else, though, I can say that the new formula works perfectly for the forced English subs in both Captain America movies and The Wolverine when comparing the results to a PS3 or TotalMedia Theatre, and the math fits for World War Z (which is currently running so I'll know for sure tomorrow).
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Old 25th August 2014, 21:00   #75  |  Link
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Forced Bug in v0.45

Sorry, Avatar test failed!
If you select the forced subs
Code:
4610 Subtitle:Deu PGS (3D-plane 2), forced captions only
then it creates ALL 1465 subs in folder 00800.track_4610.Deu_forced.3D_2D and set it to forced.

Then I used the tool Convert Subtitles.. with forced ticked and it created successfully 88 forced 3D subs BUT in the folder 00800.track_4610.Deu.3D_2D and the file 00800.track_4610.Deu.3D.sup.

Last edited by frank; 25th August 2014 at 21:07.
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Old 25th August 2014, 23:30   #76  |  Link
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Strange. The Convert Subtitles tool uses the same code than the full conversion of a 3D movie. Perhaps I have made a mistake in the calling arguments. I will have a look tomorrow. ..

Anyway, that problem is not related to the fix of the wrong depth. I may have introduced that bug when I have added the stuff to declare all subtitles in the stream as forced.

[EDIT] Oh, yes, I think I understand the problem. It is probably trivial to fix it. But you'll have to wait anyway, I'm too tired to do it now...
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Old 26th August 2014, 07:56   #77  |  Link
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Well, last night's tests were a rousing success. And Tai Chi 0/Hero (Mandarin audio) were nice and easy ones to double-check - they had fixed-depth planes. Turns out I'd previously done them with a fixed depth of 6 as a result of PowerDVD's output which, as r0lZ and I discovered, is exactly 2 short of where it should be. v0.45 gave the correct 8 from start to finish. I'll take a look at The Guillotines when these are done but I have no doubts left at all.

Curiously, is the 3D Avatar anything like the collector's 2D version? I've noticed it has a "forced" subtitle track, but the timestamps on that track are completely wrong (or they were when I tried to use it). That meant all the Na'vi subtitles would have been and gone within the first few minutes if I used it. Wound up having to manually scour the full sub track (there's a lot of dialogue in that movie!) and pick out the Na'vi tracks by hand, using the forced track as a counter to make sure I got them all.

I also gave sView a look. It seems very promising - easy enough to set up, albeit a little vague without the instructions, and it gives good results. It is lacking a bit of "polish" though. Just little things, like being able to double-click the window to toggle fullscreen (alt+Enter doesn't even work), chapter support (at least chapters as defined by MP4Box) and it has limited seeking functions. But it works, seems to run nicely and gives pretty good output - at least with a passive screen.
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Old 26th August 2014, 08:15   #78  |  Link
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Unfortunately, most Asian movies have 3D-planes with a fixed depth. But it is nice to know that BD3D2MK3D process them correctly. (I'm currently fixing the issue with the forced subs and I will release v0.46 soon...)

I will try Avatar in a moment (to test if the fix for the forced subs works as expected). If I remember correctly, the Navi subs are in the main subtitle streams, but with the forced flag. (I used the French streram, from the French B zone edition). I haven't noticed problems with the timings.

Thanks for your report about sView.
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Old 26th August 2014, 10:07   #79  |  Link
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BD3D2MK3D v0.46

Here is the new version, that should be stable now. At least I hope so! ;-)

The bug with the forced subtitles reported by Frank here should be fixed. I have just demuxed Avatar and the forced subtitle stream contains only the forced subtitles. :-) However, I have not made many tests, and there might still be some problems related to the forced subs. Please let me know if you encounter a problem.

Note that the file name of the subtitle stream has the "_forced" extension only when the stream with the label "forced captions only" in tab 2 is demuxed. The "_forced" extension is not added for a regular stream when the user ticks the "forced" option in tab 2. It's not a bug. The "_forced" extension means "containing only the forced subs extracted from a regular stream".

Quote:
# v0.46 (August 26, 2014)
# - Fix: Bug introduced in v0.44: When demuxing a subtitle stream with forced captions only, all subtitles were demuxed. (Thanks Frank)
# - Rmoved the bell ringing sometimes at the end of the extraction of the 3D-planes from the MVC stream.
Download: BD3D2MK3D.7z
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Old 30th August 2014, 08:32   #80  |  Link
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BD3D2MK3D v0.47

This one is not a bug fix! ;-)

It contains several improvements. Notably, the 3D planes are now saved in the MKV, so that you can redo the 3D conversion of your 2D subtitle streams without having to demux the whole BD again. That may be useful, for example if you need to fix some subtitles with wrong depth values or if you want to include a new subtitle file. Of course, if you want the possibility to convert the 2D streams later, you must select the option to mux them in 2D as well as in 3D (the "both" option in tab 2). Note that the 3D-planes are extracted from the MVC stream only when at least one subtitle stream must be converted to 3D, because it's a relatively long operation. If you have not selected any stream or if you mux them in 2D only, the 3D-planes are not extracted, and, of course, not included in the MKV file.

I have also added a new tool to extract the attachments from the MKV files (because MkvExtractGUI2 has a bug that has never been fixed, and cannot extract the attachments).

There is also another new tool to extract the non-forced subtitles only from a XML subtitle file (in 2D or 3D). I have written it because I have hardcoded the forced subtitles of Avatar on the video, but I wanted to keep also the full stream. Since it doesn't make sense to display the forced subtitles over the hardcoded ones, I needed a way to remove them. Since that may be useful to others too, I have implemented it as a new tool.

The other improvements are minor things. For example, you can now check if a new version has been released, and when it's the case, you have the option to download it.
Quote:
# v0.47 (August 29, 2014)
# - Added the information about the subtitle streams and their 3D-planes in the 3D-planes.log file.
# - The 3D-Planes files are now saved as a ZIP attachments in the final MKV file.
# - New Tool: Extract Attachments from MKV file. (Requires mkvextract.exe or the MKVToolnix package.)
# - New Tool: Extract Unforced subtitles from XML/PNG. (Handy to hardcode the forced subs and keep the other ones in a muxed stream).
# - Added "Check for update: in the Help menu
# - Tool -> Convert Subtitle to 3D (with 3D plane) requests now the language name when converting a SUP file and the language code is not present in the file name.
# - Added a "?" button in tab 2 to display help on the DTS conversion to AC3 and to check if the ArcSoft DTS Decoder is installed and working properly.
Download: BD3D2MK3D.7z
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