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Old 20th July 2015, 12:15   #441  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
This release fixes an important bug introduced with v0.67. The program may crash at the end of the processing if it has to convert to 3D a subtitle stream with a few forced subtitles extracted from a larger stream (with the "forced captions only" option in tab 2).

It fixes also a GUI bug during the conversion of an audio stream to AC3 or AAC, but less important because it can happen only when using the Convert Audio tool.

Important: I have also removed mmg.exe (and the "MkvMerge GUI" entry in the Tools menu) because mmg.exe is now obsolete, and has been replaced with mkvtoolnix-gui.exe. I have decided to not include the new MkvToolnix GUI, because I don't think many users need it, and it is difficult to control if the MKV compatibility options (specified with the Settings menu of BD3D2MK3D) are active when the GUI is launched. Having to manage two different sets of options was confusing and dangerous.
Please note that if you overwrite the BD3D2MK3D folder with this version, without deleting it first, mmg.exe will be automatically deleted from the BD3D2MK3D\toolset directory when BD3D2MK3D v0.68 is launched for the first time. I don't want to leave an outdated version of that program in the toolset.
If you want to manually mux your MKV files, download MkvToolnix and install it elsewhere, and use preferably the new MkvToolnix GUI. Don't forget to add the compatibility options you may need in the "Merging" tab of its Preferences window. (mmg.exe is still distributed with the current version of MkvToolnix, but I suppose that it will be removed relatively soon. If you continue to use it, you may also need to add the compatibility options in its preferences.)

Download: BD3D2MK3D.7z
Thanks for the post.
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Old 23rd July 2015, 12:18   #442  |  Link
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MkvPropEdit is broken!

I have just noticed that Tools -> Add Current Album Art to MKV File doesn't work any more. It's not due to a bug in my code, but to a broken mkvpropedit.exe. In the latest version of BD3D2MK3D, I have included mkvmerge and mkvpropedit taken from v8.2.0 of MkvToolnix. Unfortunately, mkvpropedit v8.2 is broken and cannot add attachments to MKV files any more.

I will not release a new version of BD3D2MK3D just for that, but if you want to add cover art attachments to an existing MKV file with BD3D2MK3D, you should replace mkvpropedit.exe in the toolset directory with an older version. I don't know exactly when that bug has been introduced. Perhaps with v8.0? Anyway, I have tried v7.6.0 (because I have it here), and it works perfectly. So, if you can't get a working version of mkvpropedit, you can download mkvpropedit_v7.6.0.7z and extract the exe in your toolset directory.

Of course, I have posted a bug report at the MkvToolnix bugs tracker, and hopefully the next version of mkvpropedit will work fine. I will release an update of BD3D2MK3D at that time.

Note that adding cover art to a BD3D2MK3D project should work fine, because the attachments are added with mkvmerge, at mux time. Mkvpropedit is only necessary to add attachments to an existing MKV file (and is only used by the Cover Art option of the Tools menu).

[EDIT] After a contact with Moritz Bunkus (the author of MkvToolnix), it appears that the bug is in a recent version of a library used by mkvtoolnix. But it is sufficient to copy a magic file in the toolset directory and the latest version of mkvpropedit will work fine. So, you don't need to replace mkvpropedit with an outdated version. Just download the "magic.mgc" file, and place it in the sub-directory "data" in the toolset directory. So, you must have this:
BD3D2MK3D_installation_path\toolset\data\magic.mgc
I have checked here and indeed that works fine.
If you have installed the whole MkvToolnix package, you can also simply copy the data directory from your installation of MkvToolnix to the toolset directory.
Of course, the next update will include that magic file directly in the BD3D2MK3D distribution.
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Old 25th July 2015, 13:39   #443  |  Link
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from BD3D to 2x720p frame sequential for DLP 3D ready projector

Hi,

Just tested your software, but am having some trouble finding how to get the right settings. What I am trying to do is to convert my 3D movie so I can stream it from my Plex media server. The Plex client is a Roku 3 box. the playback is done on a 3D ready DLP projector.

From what I've been reading, DLP projectors only support 2x720p Frame Sequential, not 1080. Is there a way to do this by using BD3D2MKV3D? If not, any suggestions?

By the way, I'm using DLP-Link + glasses that support both120 Hz and 144 Hz

Best regards
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Old 25th July 2015, 15:26   #444  |  Link
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Welcome to the Doom9 forums, Polar.

Unfortunately, currently BD3D2MK3D doesn't support frame sequential packing. It supports only the Side By Side or Top And Bottom packing methods. However, it is possible to create SBS or T&B files in 720p and full resolution.

I don't own Plex or a DLP projector, and therefore I don't know if Plex can split the two frames and send them as frame sequentail to the projector. You will have to try.

Anyway, all settings related to the resolution of the video are in the last tab. To do full-SBS in 720p, you should select "Side by Side", untick the "Full" option and tick the "Resize video to 720p". That settings are the closest of what you need, but the player or the monitor must be able to split the SBS image to two views.

Also, note that due to a limitation in the VobSub and BD SUP subtitle formats, you cannot have real 3D-subtitles (with the right depth) when using Full-SBS or Full-T&B. You can however hardcode the subtitles on the video stream when you encode the video, and they will be in 3D with the right depth.

Sorry if that doesn't help you much, but I have been unable to find the 3D characteristics of your hardware on the net.
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Old 25th July 2015, 16:09   #445  |  Link
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Thank you for swift reply. Plex can do transcoding, but not for what is concerned 3D. I plays the file as-is.

I have been emailing with a forum member "tal.aloni". He has found a solution to recode 3D to 2x720p Frame Sequential for playbak on PS3. I have tested these demo files and the work great on my projector, played over Plex. But is a manual process.

Maybe this could be something interesting for you to have a look at. The thread is here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=170863.

As I wrote in my email to "tal.aloni":

"In this era of Home theaters and DLP 3D ready projectors flooding the marked, I find it a shame that no easy software solution is available for less tech-savvy persons like myself. 3D BDs just won't play on these low budget projectors unless they are in the right format.

As a conclusion it would be nice to find a user friendly solution that offers the flexibility to do just that. Convert 3D BDs to a format that allows one to store it on a media server and play back on the mentioned widely available hardware. Maybe with the help from professionals like you this can become a reality."

In other words, the solution is there, it only needs to be wrapped up in a nice and user friendly package . Let me know what you think.
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Old 25th July 2015, 17:42   #446  |  Link
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Well, I have always wanted to add the frame sequential packing, but I did not it yet, because there is no real demand for that packing method.

It should be possible to modify the avs script easily to change the output. It is also very simple to modify the mux option file. If I have some time in the next days, I'll try to implement it. However, there are a few things I need to know.

- Is is a well established standard for the order of the frames? Is it left view first like for SBS and T&B? (Anyway, it will NOT be possible to swap the order from the GUI, and therefore it is important to know the answer.)

- What frame rate should I use? All 3DBDs are encoded in 23.976 fps. I suppose therefore that I need simply to use 47.952 (or, more precisely, 48/1.001 fps). Correct?

Also, note that the encoding may be difficult and produce relatively big files for a relatively low quality, due to the difficulty for x264 to analyse the movement of the objects on screen if they jump back and forth to the left and right views, and compress that different views efficiently. But that's another problem.

I will try to do some tests this evening, and perhaps I'll be able to post tomorrow an explanation of what should be changed in the AVS script and Mux 3D options file to encode the movie in frame sequential mode. Stay tuned.
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Old 25th July 2015, 18:32   #447  |  Link
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Left or right eye first? According to this document (http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bi...z6rW7jUrgI.pdf) 3D Input Format Requirements for DLP® Projectors using the new
DDP4421/DDP4422 System Controller ASIC , it is said that:

"The last active line in each stereo pair (left and right frames) shall alternate between two
frames of green (G=255, R=0, B=0) and two frames of magenta (G=0, R=255, B=255).
The left eye frame must always be transmitted first in each stereo pair."

The projector has a setting to set the sequence in reversed order, just in case of, and I found in the manual of my 3D glasses that there is a button that has the same function. I could test this if I had a 2 30 second files, one with left first, the other with right first.

Frame rate? Not sure. When looking at "tal.aloni" his BigBuckBunny-720p-3D.mp4 I see the following information in my player:

Video Resolution 720p
Duration 10:34
Bitrate 6043 kbps
Width 1280
Height 720
Aspect Ratio 1.78
Container MP4
Video Frame Rate 60p
Web Optimized No
Has 64bit Offsets 0

Video

Codec H264
Bitrate 5757 kbps
Language English
Bit Depth 8
CABAC 1
Chroma Subsampling 4:2:0
Color Space yuv
Duration 10:34
Frame Rate 60.000 fps
Frame Rate Mode cfr
Has Scaling Matrix 0
Height 720
Level 4.0
Profile high
Ref Frames 4
Scan Type progressive
Stream Identifier 1
Width 1280
Lyd

Codec AAC
Channels 5.1
Bitrate 279 kbps
Language English
Audio Channel Layout 5.1
Bitrate Mode VBR
Duration 10:34
Profile lc
Sampling Rate 48000 Hz
Stream Identifier 2

As a last note I can tell that my glasses have a refresh rate that supports 96Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz as well as 144Hz . From what I understand 144Hz is the new and better standard. Note sure where this fits in when discussing adding frame sequential packing. But I just give this as additional information for you.

Maybe "tal.aloni" has more usefull information in the thread I referred to?
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Old 25th July 2015, 19:22   #448  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polar View Post
"The last active line in each stereo pair (left and right frames) shall alternate between two
frames of green (G=255, R=0, B=0) and two frames of magenta (G=0, R=255, B=255).
The left eye frame must always be transmitted first in each stereo pair."
Honestly, I don't know why it should be necessary to modify the last active line of each frame. Is it really a standard for frame-sequential? Anyway, I will probably never implement that. Normal frames should be sufficient.

That quote confirms also that it's probably the left-frame first that is the standard for the DLP projectors. Good thing.
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Old 25th July 2015, 19:37   #449  |  Link
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Frame-sequential mini-guide

OK, I did some modifications to a few files and I am currently encoding a little clip. That should work. If you want to try yourself, follow this mini guide.
  • Use the GUI with the settings to encode in Half-SBS, 720p.
    Do NOT use the 3D mode for the subtitles (in tab 2). However, you can hardcode the subtitles over the video (in tab 5).
    Do not specify "Add N seconds of black at the beginning of the video" in tab 5.
    You can specify "Add N seconds of black at the end of the video", but take in mind that you must specify two times the duration (for example specify 10 to obtain 5 seconds).
  • When the project is created, modify the following files:
    • _ENCODE.cmd:
      • Modify the 2 (or 4 for 2-pass) occurrences of -frames. The number of frames must be doubled.
      • Change "--frame-packing 3" (or 4) to "--frame-packing 5"
      • Remove the argument "--qpfile chapters_3D.qpfile" OR modify the chapters_3D.qpfile file (see below).
      • Not really mandatory: add "--fps 48000/1001" in the x264 command.
    • _ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs
      Replace this section:
      Code:
      # Build combined Side-by-Side image
      StackHorizontal(Left, Right)
      AssumeFPS("ntsc_film")
      
      # Resize to 720p
      BicubicResize(2560, 720)
      with this:
      Code:
      Interleave(left, right)
      AssumeFPS(48000/1001.0)
      BicubicResize(1280, 720)
    • _MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt
      • You may want to change the output file name under --output, but you can do it later.
      • Change SBS in the --track-name of the 3D Video Stream to "frame-sequential" or anything you may prefer. (It's just a label.)
      • Replace --stereo-mode 0:1 with 0:13 (To be confirmed.)
      • Replace --aspect-ratio 0:32/9 with 0:16/9
      • Replace --default-duration 0:24000/1001p with 0:48000/1001p
    • chapters_3D.qpfile
      If you have not removed the --qpfile chapters_3D.qpfile argument in _ENCODE.cmd, you must also edit the chapters_3D.qpfile.
      That file contains simply a list of frame numbers followed by I (upper case i).
      Each frame number must be doubled. For example, "1770 I" must be changed to "3540 I".
      The qpfile is used to force an I frame at the beginning of each chapter, so that it is easier for the players to jump to the beginning of a chapter. It's an improvement but it's not mandatory.
  • Finally launch _ENCODE.cmd and everything should be automatic. :-)
Note that tal.aloni recommends to mux to MP4 with his own muxer, and to convert the audio streams to AAC. Since his guide is made for very specific hardware and anyway BD3D2MK3D will never mux to MP4, I have not taken that recommendations into account. If your player is recent, it should support the MKV format anyway.
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Old 25th July 2015, 19:43   #450  |  Link
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OK, it works, or at least I think so. I have no way to test it. If you want to test it with your hardware, you can download the encoded clip (left view first) here: demo 3D frame-sequential 720p.mkv (Download it rapidly. I cannot leave it on the site for a long time.)
Please let me know if it works as it should.
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Old 25th July 2015, 19:45   #451  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
[*] Remove the --stereo-mode 0:1. (I don't think MKV has a stereoscopy value for frame-sequential.)
I think mode 13 and 14 might be intended for this scenario. If not, that would be a huge oversight by the Matroska team.
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Old 25th July 2015, 19:59   #452  |  Link
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You may be right, but I don't understand the description. "Both eyes laced in one block" is not what I would have used to describe frame-sequential. And what is that "block"?
Anyway, if you are right, it is easy to replace --stereo-mode 0:1 with --stereo-mode 0:13
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Old 25th July 2015, 20:09   #453  |  Link
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I think block refers to a Matroska block here, i.e. setting this should not only set the stereo flag to 13/14 but it should influence the actual muxing. I think this might be needed to keep it synchronized in case of seeking or error (so player always knows what's left and what's right view). But I'm note sure if that's really how it works nor whether mkvmerge actually does it correctly (testing mkvmerge should not be difficult, though).

I will think about it some more...
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Old 25th July 2015, 20:18   #454  |  Link
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I see. You are probably right. I have changed the mini-guide accordingly. However, as I wrote, I cannot test that frame packing myself, and therefore I can't be sure. If you find more info, please let me know. In the meantime, I'll ask Moritz Bunkus...

[EDIT] I have remuxed the demo MKV with --stereo-mode 0:13 and I have just replaced it on the server. If someone has downloaded it already, it might be necessary to download it again.
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Old 25th July 2015, 22:13   #455  |  Link
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Current mkvmerge behavior does not make sense to me. Imagine 25 fps 3D movie, then timecodes in mkvmerge:
L0 0
R0 20
L1 40
R1 60
L2 80
R2 100
...

But of course it should be:
L0 0
R0 0
L1 40
R1 40
L2 80
R2 80
...

But then left view has duration of 0ms. I think that's why different muxing style is required.

If your discussion with Mosu or rest of Matroska team is public please share link to it.
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Old 26th July 2015, 14:13   #456  |  Link
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v0.69 beta 1

I agree that the frame rate is a good argument for the --stereo-mode 13. Thanks.
I have sent an email to Moritz, but he hasn't replied yet. I will report here when I'll receive a reply.

@anybody interested in the Frame Sequential stereoscopic mode:

I have a beta to test. It implements the Frame Sequential stereoscopy mode, and everything seems to work fine, but I haven't tested it carefully yet. It produces similar files than the files modified with the mini guide posted a few posts above, but it has not the same limitations. (For example, you can specify a blank at the beginning of the video if you wish.)

It has also several safeguards, for example to ensure that at least the minimal h264 level required for a precise mode is possible with the settings currently selected. (For example, it is necessary to use at least level 4.2 in Frame Sequential 1080p. That means also that the "BD compatible" option cannot be used.)

It is also possible to hardcode the 3D subtitles over the video (but since it doesn't make sense to generate 3D SBS or T&B subtitles for Frame Sequential, it is not possible to mux 3D subtitles in the final MKV file).

This version implements also some other changes and improvements, and it fixes the bug of the missing magic file explained here.
Quote:
# v0.69 beta 1 (July 26, 2015)
# - Added the Frame Sequential 3D packing format (in addition to SBS and T&B).
# - The program is not "not responding" any more when converting audio to AC3 or AAC.
# - There is now a larger choice of bitrates when converting audio to AC3.
# - Bug Tools -> Add Current Cover Art to MKV File: toolset\data\magic.mgc was missing.
If you use this beta to create Frame Sequential files, please let me know if it works correctly, and if the file is playable on your hardware. Thanks!

Download the beta: [link removed]
Remember that this version is a beta! Use it at your own risk.
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Old 27th July 2015, 10:47   #457  |  Link
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Sorry for the delayed reply. Had to work this weekend. Just did a download of the demo mkv file. It won't play 3D.

When I compare with the tal.aloni file, I see a few differences. Not sure if they are relevant, but I'll leave that up to you to:

All of the tal.aloni demo files I managed to play had a 60p video frame rate, you have 24p

tal.aloni used level 4.0, you have 4.1
tal.aloni had 4 Ref Frames, you have 8

When I playback, what should be 3D is shaking from left to right.
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Old 27th July 2015, 11:18   #458  |  Link
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The frame rate cannot be changed. "NTSC film" at 23.976 fps is the frame rate of ALL BD 3Ds. Since there is twice the number of frames in Frame Sequential mode, BD3D2MK3D sets it to 47.952 (or more precisely 48/1.001 fps). It's not at all 24p. I may have used a wrong fps value when I have encoded the test file manually, but I don't think so. Anyway, the new beta of BD3D2MK3D uses 48/1.001 and that's correct. If your hardware cannot play that frame rate, then say goodbye to the 3D, as it will be extremely difficult to change the frame rate to 60p. Furthermore, 60p is not an usual frame rate. 29.97 is the frame rate of NTSC interlaced video, and that value times two gives 59.94. That's not 60, and I wonder how it is possible to obtain that value, and why he has used it.

The other parameters can easily be modified in the BD3D2MK3D GUI. You can force level 4.0 in tab 5. I don't remember exactly, but I think that's also sufficient to obtain the 4 ref frames. If it's not the case, you can add specific arguments in the "additional options" field in tab 5.

Anyway, tal.aloni has explained how to make 3D movies for the PlayStation 3 and Sony Bravia W8, obviously extremely limited and non-standard for the 3D playback. Since you have another hardware and software, there is absolutely no reason to use exactly the same parameters.

Now, you can encode in frame sequential mode with the beta of BD3D2MK3D. Do your own tests. If your hardware is really able to play 3D movies, it must be possible to find the right parameters. I can't help you more.

Oh, have you tried to force your player to switch to 3D playback? Not all players are smart enough to obey the frame-packing info from the video stream or the stereoscopy mode from the MKV container.
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Old 28th July 2015, 14:26   #459  |  Link
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Did a test with Imax Space Station iso. After convertion I end up with a Frame Rate 47.952 fps mkv file. Same issue, I can not get the 3D to work here. It works fine with the other demo files with Frame Rate 60 fps.

So I am wondering if I am on to something here. When searching the internet and lookin at the 3D convertors there are available for use with 3D ready DLP projectors, they all talk about 720/60.

A few examples on other forums or descriptions:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/..._spec_8302.pdf :
3D Compatibility†
Supports all HDMI 1.4a mandatory 3D formats
(Frame pack, side-by-side, top-bottom) and
up converts frame rate from 60Hz to 120Hz
or 24Hz to 144Hz (i.e 60 or 72 frames per
eye). 3D glasses are needed and are sold
separately.

http://www.xpand.me/news/29/ :
XpanD’s DLP-Link is completely compatible with the DLP technology’s synchronization between left and right eyes. The 3D technology performs at 60 frames per second per eye (total 120 FPS).

https://forums.geforce.com/default/t...es/?offset=18:
The 3D 'standards' are '720p60' & '1080p24', the 60, and 24 respectively, are for frames per eye(FPS)

http://www.spirton.com/convert-videos-to-60fps/
"...25FPS becomes 50FPS and 24/30FPS becomes 60FPS by default"

This last link also has a tutorial, but I think he uses the same modules like you do.

To conclude, I am guessing that in order to playback 3D on 3D ready DLP projectors with DLP link active 3D glasses, 60 fps must be a requirement. I see no other explaination for why I can play "tal.aloni" demo files, and not yours. Would it be hard to implement this in your script?
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Old 28th July 2015, 15:38   #460  |  Link
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Not hard. Nearly impossible.

The 3D blu-ray frame rate is 23.976 fps. Dot. If DLP projectors cannot support that frame rate, that means that they cannot show the output of blu-ray 3D players, and "3D ready" is obviously a lie.

You can try to remux the streams at 24 fps (for a total frame rate of 48 fps) or 30 fps (total 60). The sound will not be in sync, but at least you will be able to test if the 3D MKV files are really supported.

To do that, simply edit _MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt, and change --default-duration 0:48000/1001p to 0:48 (or 0:60) in the 3D video stream section. Then launch _MUX_3D.cmd to create the MKV file at the specified (wrong) frame rate.

If that works, you can manually re-encode the audio files for 24fps and remux again (at 48 fps instead of 47.952). With some luck, you'll be able to see the movie with properly synced audio. (I don't know what is the best free way to convert the audio rate. I use Adobe Audacity for that kind of jobs, but it is not free. You may probably use eac3to, with one of its GUIs.)

Converting to 60fps is much more complicated. That requires to apply pulldown (or telecine) to the video stream. In other words, you must convert a movie shot for the cinema to the old NTSC format, but not exactly because 30 (or 60) fps is not the standard NTSC frame rate. That's really strange, since all 3D movies of all times have been shot for the cinema at 24 fps, and as far as I know, never for the NTSC TV. Anyway, although you can try to do the pulldown conversion, that will be slow and introduce many artefacts, and I can't guarantee that the 3D effect will be preserved. However, if you really want to do that, you will have to edit the AVS script to convert the two views. I can explain how to do that later, but do simple tests first.

In all cases, you will need to convert the subtitles files as well, and you'll lose the chapter points.

BD3D2MK3D can't output in 24 or 30 fps, and I will certainly not implement that. It converts a BD3D to MKV, and doesn't invent fancy frame rates, because some hardware players or projectors cannot play the standard 3D frame rate. Sorry.

[EDIT] The tutorial to convert video to 60fps (pointed to by your last link) is not at all what you need. It explains how to convert a 2D video at 24fps to 48fps to improve the quality and avoid flickering. You need to convert TWO video streams at 23.976 to 24 (or 30) fps each, and that gives a total of 48 (or 60) fps. And for 24 fps, there is no need to encode the video again. The change in speed is small enough. You can simply change the frame rate info when you mux the file. The problem is that small speed change is sufficient to create progressively a de-synchronisation with the audio. Therefore, you must re-encode the audio, not the video. As explained above, unfortunately converting from 23.976 to 30 fps is very different, and you cannot just change the frame rate, because your movie will play too fast, like the very old b&w films. I can only hope that your hardware supports 24 fps. 30 fps is a total nonsense in the 3D world.

Another thing. Some peoples convert a 3D movie taken from a BD3D (always at 23.976 fps) to 25p, because 25 fps is the PAL frame rate, and therefore it is possible to use the audio from a PAL DVD with the video of the 3DBD. That's really easy (if you don't need the chapters and subtitles). It is sufficient to use the frame rate 25 instead of 24000/1001 in the mux options, and to replace the original audio track with the audio of the DVD. But that's 25 fps, not 24 or 30. And NTSC DVDs are at 29.97 fps, not 30. And since the speed change is too important, you cannot simply change the frame rate value. You must telecine and re-encode the video stream.
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r0lZ
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BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D blu-rays to SBS, T&B or FS MKV

Last edited by r0lZ; 28th July 2015 at 16:21. Reason: typo
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