Media Player .NET (MPDN) - D3D HQ GPU Video Renderer [v2.49.0/v1.31.0 27 Dec 2018]

[huhn]

Originally Posted by Magik Mark

I have 60hz Monitor. Does it mean I have to divide the refresh rate in the calculator by 2.5 in order to play 23.976hz or 24 hz video smoothly?

you should use fluid motion to play it smooth not this new feature.

[Zachs]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Would it be perfectly? or could it stand to do an automatic correction every say 5/10 minutes or something, as going by the OSD the there is a bit of fluctuation going on.

Perfectly. By fluctuation you mean the actual average FPS presented? If so, that's just because of how the average is calculated. With the method I wrote, I've managed to watch a 2.30hr movie without a single repeated/dropped frame with my TV @23.978Hz.

Originally Posted by Anime Viewer

Any thoughts as to why the OSD is reporting 59hz when playing videos on the TV regardless or what hz I've selected for the screen to run in? (I have both "Use highest" and "Activate only" both unchecked when testing in Display Changer). Is it possible the screen is changing, but the OSD isn't reporting it right?

Which monitor did you pick for your "Presentation" graphics adapter? When you move MPDN's window to your TV, does the OSD say "Current Display"? If it says "Other Display", you've set it up to use your laptop screen.

Originally Posted by bacondither

Thanks! Setting the w channel to 1 seems to work.

As long as the final result sets the w channel to 1, MPDN will be happy. Any other values will result in undefined behaviour. You can still use w channel to pass data from an earlier pass in the middle of the processing chain, as long as the w channel gets set back to 1 before returning the result texture to MPDN.

Originally Posted by huhn

i only have this problem with MPDN. EVR, foobar2000, computer games and web browser they all work totally fine.

and the next thing is if MPDN is the slave to the audio clock why is audio distorted and not a frame repeated/dropped? in best case i get a frame delay with audio distortion in most cases just audio distortion even through MPDN shows a frame repeat of a couple of secs with clock deviations of 0.35 %.

and of cause is no real work for my HTPC to use MPDN.

Have you tried playing just the audio stream to see if MPDN still causes your audio issue? Can you also try playing audio in the background and then make MPDN distort the audio to see if the audio playing in the background is distorted as well?

The point I was trying to make was I won't be able to debug it without you spending some time on it since I (or anyone else for that matter) can't replicate your issue on any of my systems. And I gather from your replies you weren't interested at all in doing so.

Originally Posted by Magik Mark

I have 60hz Monitor. Does it mean I have to divide the refresh rate in the calculator by 2.5 in order to play 23.976hz or 24 hz video smoothly?

You should not divide it by anything other than an integer number. In your case, if you really want to use the rate tuner, you could look into overclocking your monitor and then get it as close as 24Hz*3 as possible. You then divide the refresh rate by 3. One of my monitors also only does 60Hz but I managed to overclock it to 68.5Hz. This means I end up with 22.833Hz when playing 23.976FPS materials. Your video will play around 5% slower but you won't notice the difference (PAL conversion works the opposite by doing a ~4% speedup). You should also use MPC-BE Audio Renderer (included with MPDN's latest installer) with WASAPI exclusive mode output when using the rate tuner. WASAPI audio renderers can set the sample rate of your audio endpoint directly.

[Magik Mark]

Zachs is there a way to reverse engineer reclock then port it to MPDN?

[Zachs]

User guide for Rate Tuner - https://github.com/zachsaw/MPDN_Exte...iki/Rate-Tuner

[Zachs]

Originally Posted by Magik Mark

Zachs is there a way to reverse engineer reclock then port it to MPDN?

There's no need to - reclock doesn't do magic, contrary to what most people believe (you do know reclock won't make 24 fps play buttery smooth at 60hz right?). Read the rate tuner user guide I just posted above.

[Anime Viewer]

Originally Posted by Zachs

Which monitor did you pick for your "Presentation" graphics adapter? When you move MPDN's window to your TV, does the OSD say "Current Display"? If it says "Other Display", you've set it up to use your laptop screen.

You're correct it was listing "Other Display" when playing the video on the TV screen. I used to have the TV as the presentation screen, but changed that after I noticed that I would see the screen flash black (switching modes) sometimes when I was switching between browser tabs (and other tabs on Windows taskbar - it was probably kicking MPDN out of exclusive mode) when running in exclusive mode with the tv as the presentation screen. At the time I switched the notebook to be the presentation screen which would allow exclusive mode on the notebook (so I wouldn't give it up entirely) and let the TV run in full screen windowed mode. I've now changed it back to use the TV as the presentation screen, and just let them both run in full screen windowed mode. The side effect of this is that now it seem when running a 23hz video on the notebook screen it says the display is running at 23hz too (even though the notebook screen is only supposed to support 59hz and 60hz rates).

On a related note there is probably a way to do away with forcing one screen to be the presentation mode and the other to not. I find in MPC with MadVR I can have video playing in Exclusive fullscreen mode on one screen, drag it over to the other screen and maximize it, and that screen will also display as running in exclusive mode. Also MPC/madVR is locking the secondary screen to running at the presentation screens refresh rate. If madVR can do it then MPDN should have the ability to run in such a state too.

[Magik Mark]

Originally Posted by Zachs

User guide for Rate Tuner - https://github.com/zachsaw/MPDN_Exte...iki/Rate-Tuner

Thanks a lot! Works great with SVP

I there a way to port SVP settings to MPDN natively? This would be great for the 64bit version. Currently SVP is only 32bit

[Zachs]

Originally Posted by Anime Viewer

You're correct it was listing "Other Display" when playing the video on the TV screen. I used to have the TV as the presentation screen, but changed that after I noticed that I would see the screen flash black (switching modes) sometimes when I was switching between browser tabs (and other tabs on Windows taskbar - it was probably kicking MPDN out of exclusive mode) when running in exclusive mode with the tv as the presentation screen. At the time I switched the notebook to be the presentation screen which would allow exclusive mode on the notebook (so I wouldn't give it up entirely) and let the TV run in full screen windowed mode. I've now changed it back to use the TV as the presentation screen, and just let them both run in full screen windowed mode. The side effect of this is that now it seem when running a 23hz video on the notebook screen it says the display is running at 23hz too (even though the notebook screen is only supposed to support 59hz and 60hz rates).

On a related note there is probably a way to do away with forcing one screen to be the presentation mode and the other to not. I find in MPC with MadVR I can have video playing in Exclusive fullscreen mode on one screen, drag it over to the other screen and maximize it, and that screen will also display as running in exclusive mode. Also MPC/madVR is locking the secondary screen to running at the presentation screens refresh rate. If madVR can do it then MPDN should have the ability to run in such a state too.

Yes this has been on my todo list for a long time but it remains low priority as you could only run one screen in exclusive mode at any given time anyway.

EDIT: BTW, it says the "Other display" is running at 23Hz when you have MPDN on your notebook screen.

EDIT2: You can make MPDN use display 1 or 2 via command line "adapter" option. You can simply create 2 shortcuts - one to launch MPDN for your TV, another when you want to view on your notebook screen.

[ryrynz]

Zach could you allow the rate tuner to only activate either when certain refresh rates are active or tie it in to the display changer?

[Zachs]

I'll have a think about that. It doesn't matter if it's activated even when your refresh rate hasn't been set correctly though does it?

[huhn]

Originally Posted by Zachs

Have you tried playing just the audio stream to see if MPDN still causes your audio issue? Can you also try playing audio in the background and then make MPDN distort the audio to see if the audio playing in the background is distorted as well?

EDIT:i tried to reproduce this while MPC-HC was running muted and at 5% and i still get the issue but i didn't get a delayed frame in 10 min testing i tested if a running and muted MPDN instance has audio effects on MPC-HC and a muted instance of MPDN most likely had an effect. heard an huge audio issue and a lot of frames where dropped at one point in madVR could be an issue of two program using GPU but unlikely in this case. double check MPC-HC only afterwards and no issue what so ever.

my clock deviation at 23p is 0.00333 to 0.00340 usually after ~3 mins this doesn't sound like a to bad audio clock in general.


EDIT:
direct audio:
15 mins audio only didn't present me any issue.

mpc-hc audio renderer in MPDN:
audio video playback:
extrem audio distortions combined with delayed repeated and dropped frames from time to time way worse than with directaudio but the ref clock stays at a stable 23.976 something clock unlike direct audio.
second try ref clock was at 23.97602-23.97610 after 40 sec no audio problems but delayed frames.
12 min audio only didn't present me any issues.
2 audio programs at the same time is pretty much pointless with exclusive mode wasapi or?

The point I was trying to make was I won't be able to debug it without you spending some time on it since I (or anyone else for that matter) can't replicate your issue on any of my systems. And I gather from your replies you weren't interested at all in doing so.

i pointed the old issue at the fullness but this can't be the issue anymore. the old issue need some concentrated hearing. i don't even kno if this is the same issue or i'm "lucky" that it triggers this hard. and sometimes it doesn't trigger at all and the ref clk deviations stays normal.

[huhn]

bug:
open a flac file most likly all audio only files:

===================================

An unexpected error 'System.NullReferenceException' has occurred.

------------------------------
Error Type = System.NullReferenceException
Error Message = Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
Error Source = Mpdn.Extensions
Error Site = Void PlayerStateChanged(System.Object, Mpdn.PlayerStateEventArgs)
Error occurred =    at Mpdn.Extensions.PlayerExtensions.DisplayChanger.PlayerStateChanged(Object sender, PlayerStateEventArgs e)
   at System.EventHandler`1.Invoke(Object sender, TEventArgs e)
   at Mpdn.PlayerControl.OnPlayerStateChanged(PlayerState playerState, PlayerState oldState)
   at MediaPlayerDotNet.MainForm.<>c__DisplayClass3d.<SetPlayerState>b__3c()
   at Mpdn.Utilities.ControlHelpers.HandleAsync()
OS Version = Microsoft Windows NT 6.3.9600.0

...stuff...


===================================

Object reference not set to an instance of an object. (Mpdn.Extensions)

------------------------------
Program Location:

   at Mpdn.Extensions.PlayerExtensions.DisplayChanger.PlayerStateChanged(Object sender, PlayerStateEventArgs e)
   at System.EventHandler`1.Invoke(Object sender, TEventArgs e)
   at Mpdn.PlayerControl.OnPlayerStateChanged(PlayerState playerState, PlayerState oldState)
   at MediaPlayerDotNet.MainForm.<>c__DisplayClass3d.<SetPlayerState>b__3c()
   at Mpdn.Utilities.ControlHelpers.HandleAsync()

[Zachs]

Originally Posted by huhn

EDIT:i tried to reproduce this while MPC-HC was running muted and at 5% and i still get the issue but i didn't get a delayed frame in 10 min testing i tested if a running and muted MPDN instance has audio effects on MPC-HC and a muted instance of MPDN most likely had an effect. heard an huge audio issue and a lot of frames where dropped at one point in madVR could be an issue of two program using GPU but unlikely in this case. double check MPC-HC only afterwards and no issue what so ever.

my clock deviation at 23p is 0.00333 to 0.00340 usually after ~3 mins this doesn't sound like a to bad audio clock in general.


EDIT:
direct audio:
15 mins audio only didn't present me any issue.

mpc-hc audio renderer in MPDN:
audio video playback:
extrem audio distortions combined with delayed repeated and dropped frames from time to time way worse than with directaudio but the ref clock stays at a stable 23.976 something clock unlike direct audio.
second try ref clock was at 23.97602-23.97610 after 40 sec no audio problems but delayed frames.
12 min audio only didn't present me any issues.
2 audio programs at the same time is pretty much pointless with exclusive mode wasapi or?



i pointed the old issue at the fullness but this can't be the issue anymore. the old issue need some concentrated hearing. i don't even kno if this is the same issue or i'm "lucky" that it triggers this hard. and sometimes it doesn't trigger at all and the ref clk deviations stays normal.

Originally Posted by huhn

bug:
open a flac file most likly all audio only files:

Garteal fixed it!

Just so I understand your test results complete, can you confirm if I got the following correct?

Directsound
MPDN audio only = no distortion
MPDN audio+video = distortion
MPDN audio+video (muted) with MPC-HC audio+video = distortion
MPDN audio+video (muted) with MPC-HC audio only = distortion?
MPDN audio only with MPC-HC audio only = no distortion?

As for WASAPI exclusive mode, you mentioned you never got it to work with MPC-HC either, is that correct?

Can you try running DPC latency checker to see if you get any obvious problems when distortion occurs? Compare that with DPC latency when there's no distortion, do you see any difference?

[Magik Mark]

Zachs, Is it possible to use DXVA on IMAGE upscaling & downloading? I think this would help low to medium end users

[huhn]

Originally Posted by Zachs

Garteal fixed it!

Just so I understand your test results complete, can you confirm if I got the following correct?
Directsound
MPDN audio only = no distortion
MPDN audio+video = distortion

yes

MPDN audio+video (muted) with MPC-HC audio+video = distortion

yes

MPDN audio+video (muted) with MPC-HC audio only = distortion?
MPDN audio only with MPC-HC audio only = no distortion?

didn't tested this combinations. but i can do this test tomorrow.

As for WASAPI exclusive mode, you mentioned you never got it to work with MPC-HC either, is that correct?

i got issue with wasapi but generally i got audio just rarely some distortions. my guess is that i got distortion when a frame drop/repeate should happen but never did. i just used direct audio without any issue. but i can't remember such big issues.
there is a file that sounds very noisy when used with WASAPI and my soundcard so i guess the WASAPI "driver" are simply broken and can be ignored. ASIO works like a charm on the other hand.

Can you try running DPC latency checker to see if you get any obvious problems when distortion occurs? Compare that with DPC latency when there's no distortion, do you see any difference?

this program doesn't properly work on windows 8 and i'm on windows 10.
i used this program back at my windows 7 times with very low numbers.

i will try to record the issue later i may learn something from it.

[Zachs]

Originally Posted by Magik Mark

Zachs, Is it possible to use DXVA on IMAGE upscaling & downloading? I think this would help low to medium end users

It's on my todo list (as with a lot of other stuff) but I just haven't had any spare time to work on it.

EDIT: When I looked into it, I found it to be rather restrictive on what it could do. This hasn't changed AFAIK. For starters, it only accepts 8-bit input/output, which means it is worse in quality (colour correctness wise - i.e. you'll get banding issues, colour shift etc.) when compared to even hardware bilinear scaling with MPDN's "max performance" settings while requiring more processing power. Even on my low power budget device (e.g. Atom Tablet), I prefer MPDN's hardware bilinear (which has full 32-bit colour accuracy) on 10-bit FSE mode over DXVA. With 10-/16-bit sources, you essentially murder the quality when you use DXVA scaling.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by Zachs

MPDN audio+video (muted) with MPC-HC audio only = distortion?
MPDN audio only with MPC-HC audio only = no distortion?

tested and yes.

Can you try running DPC latency checker to see if you get any obvious problems when distortion occurs? Compare that with DPC latency when there's no distortion, do you see any difference?

i used LatencyMon 6.00: http://www.resplendence.com/downloads

obviously the issue: http://abload.de/img/bingogys3y.png

the high numbers come when the audio distortion appears.
i will let the program run in the background when i next time used madVR for a longer time like 2 h may take some time just to make sure madVR has no problem at all and the issue is limited to MPDN. but a short test with madVR didn't showed any issue.

[Zachs]

Looks like something in MPDN's video renderer (which has nothing to do with audio) is triggering an audio driver bug. 26ms from interrupt to process is definitely a big problem.

[huhn]

so i guess nothing to learn from recoding this issue. let's just hope this is not an general issue.

maybe someone with windows 10/windows 8.1 can do a test for this issue too.
you just have to run LatencyMon 6.00 in the background and watch an 24 min episode or something like that.

[huhn]

i get high numbers in madVR and foobar too (~4000). the only difference is that MPDN has audio issues and the rest not. so the driver are kinda broken or this software doesn't work properly on windows 10.

not sure if it is good to waste time on it.