Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Video Encoding > VP9 and AV1

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 16th March 2021, 17:21   #61  |  Link
quietvoid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 570
Has something happened to SVT-AV1? There hasn't been any feature/bugfix update in the months before the move to GitLab, and still nothing since.
See https://www.reddit.com/r/AV1/comment...t_in_almost_a/
__________________
LG C2 OLED | GitHub Projects

Last edited by quietvoid; 22nd March 2021 at 01:16.
quietvoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2021, 18:35   #62  |  Link
Blue_MiSfit
Derek Prestegard IRL
 
Blue_MiSfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,988
Looks like the maintainer is out on child bonding
Blue_MiSfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2021, 19:34   #63  |  Link
benwaggoner
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_MiSfit View Post
Looks like the maintainer is out on child bonding
Yay for parental leave becoming a tech industry standard!

Hopefully integration work is going on inside of AOM as part of their switch to SVT-AV1 from libaom as their default encoder.
__________________
Ben Waggoner
Principal Video Specialist, Amazon Prime Video

My Compression Book
benwaggoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2021, 01:45   #64  |  Link
foxyshadis
ангел смерти
 
foxyshadis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lost
Posts: 9,558
SVT HEVC and VP9 already fell off into minimal maintenance a year ago, so it's probably not that surprising. Intel is probably redirecting resources; all of the prolific contributors are Intel employees or adjuncts, and I haven't seen any Google employees step in to fill the void. I hope it's not a "not now, I'm too busy designing my own language to rewrite the application in first" that's all too prevalent at Google.

Last edited by foxyshadis; 26th March 2021 at 11:39.
foxyshadis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2021, 01:57   #65  |  Link
quietvoid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 570
I was under the impression that Netflix also participated in the development, maybe that changed.
Still hopeful for either SVT-AV1 or rav1e to become good encoders. Especially now that there are some good GSoC 2021 project ideas aimed at improving rav1e.
__________________
LG C2 OLED | GitHub Projects
quietvoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2021, 13:52   #66  |  Link
foxyshadis
ангел смерти
 
foxyshadis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lost
Posts: 9,558
For sure, Netflix and other companies do contribute, and so has Google... but 90% of the last few years of SVT maintenance has come from Intel. I'm crossing my fingers that the it's a momentary blip and going to pick up again, given how long it took x265 to recover after its initial dream team left.
foxyshadis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th May 2021, 07:21   #67  |  Link
Kurtnoise
Swallowed in the Sea
 
Kurtnoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aix-en-Provence, France
Posts: 5,191
https://gitlab.com/AOMediaCodec/SVT-...eleases/v0.8.7

Quote:
[0.8.7] - 2021-05-08
Encoder
  • Feature optimizations: creating new mode decision / encode-decode feature levels allowing better speed / quality trade-off granularity
  • Preset repositioning after adopting new levels
  • Preset 8 achieving similar speed levels to that of x265 medium in the VOD (shot-based encoding) use-case while maintaining quality gains
  • New 1-pass and 2-pass VBR implementation ported from libaom and adapted to the SVT architecture - still a WIP
  • Cleaned up old VBR and CVBR RC code along with the lookahead mechanism associated with them
  • Improvements for TPL algorithm to handle long clips and easy content
  • Added HDR support and color primaries SEI signaling (off by default until integrated with ffmpeg)
  • Memory optimizations, cleaning up data structures to reduce memory usage up to 2x memory reduction in multi-threaded VBR environment
  • Additional AVX2 and AVX512 optimizations
  • Cleaned up unused command line parameters except the config params that are linked to ffmpeg
  • Update user guide and documentation

Build and Testing
  • Bug fixes
  • Improve CI coverage
  • Improve Unit Test Coverage
  • Address C vs asm mismatches
  • Fix static analysis warnings / errors
Kurtnoise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2021, 21:44   #68  |  Link
benwaggoner
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,750
And it is back. Sounds like some pretty solid improvements in this release. Matching x265 medium performance is impressive if the quality is decent.
__________________
Ben Waggoner
Principal Video Specialist, Amazon Prime Video

My Compression Book
benwaggoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2021, 08:32   #69  |  Link
Blue_MiSfit
Derek Prestegard IRL
 
Blue_MiSfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,988
Looks like 0.8.8 RC1 is tagged with the new optimized speed presets folks have been talking about

https://gitlab.com/AOMediaCodec/SVT-...tree/0.8.8-rc1

Exciting. I'll have to figure out how to get that cooking in media-autobuild-suite... or maybe wait for it to be merged to master.

I have to see the whole "faster and better quality than x264 placebo even at the fastest svt-av1 setting" thing for myself to believe it
__________________
These are all my personal statements, not those of my employer :)
Blue_MiSfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2021, 11:03   #70  |  Link
Blue_MiSfit
Derek Prestegard IRL
 
Blue_MiSfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,988
Okay, wow.

I just went ahead and did my own docker build instead of waiting for this to get merged to master.

The new default speed preset is 12, which is indeed about as fast as x264 placebo for me on my Ryzen 9 5900x using a 1080p 8 bit version of the Netflix foreman test clip.

I found that using crf 40 in svt-av1 with a 240 frame GOP produced an ABR of ~970 Kbps, and crf 33 in x264 produced an ABR of ~ 955 Kbps. The AV1 version was _dramatically_ better, even if it did suffer a bit in temporal coherency in certain cases.

Overall, the x264 version was more consistent, but overall consistently much worse. Both were soft in high frequency details, but the AV1 version completely dominated the x264 version, both in still frame and in-motion comparison. In a totally non-scientific quick little single blind comparison my video literate girlfriend said that on a scale of 1-5 the AV1 version scored a 4 and the x264 version scored a 2, and I have to say I think she's spot on.

Again, this was at the same encoding speed. Wow. SVT-AV1 has come a LONG way.

Here's a Docker image if you want to use it: https://hub.docker.com/repository/do...vt-av1/general

And here's some test encodes:
https://d1bl6f264cdx5.cloudfront.net...40_speed12.mp4

https://d1bl6f264cdx5.cloudfront.net...33_placebo.mp4


x264:


svt-av1:
__________________
These are all my personal statements, not those of my employer :)

Last edited by Blue_MiSfit; 2nd December 2021 at 11:29.
Blue_MiSfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2021, 16:29   #71  |  Link
takla
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 182
Going by your image comparison, If I had to choose between watching x264 or svt-av1, I'd pass on watching either, because both look absolutely horrendous. And how does av1 look better here? It just has different types of artefacts. Where it cannot retain detail it blurs. And it has some major artefacts around the head. Just preblur the source, and x264 probably comes out ahead. And with higher device compatibility too.
takla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2021, 18:40   #72  |  Link
Blue_MiSfit
Derek Prestegard IRL
 
Blue_MiSfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,988
That’s not really the point. This is sub 1 Mbps 1080p it’s not something most people on doom9 care about.

The artifacts in motion are way less distracting. It’s just very impressive to see what can be done with an AV1 bitstream using the same amount of compute as x264. This demonstrates very clever optimization and lots of smart early exits.

It’s the “superfast” of SVT-AV1
__________________
These are all my personal statements, not those of my employer :)
Blue_MiSfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2021, 18:44   #73  |  Link
VoodooFX
Banana User
 
VoodooFX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_MiSfit View Post
the Netflix foreman test clip
Any link to it? Hard to tell what is what without source.
VoodooFX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2021, 00:00   #74  |  Link
benwaggoner
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooFX View Post
Any link to it? Hard to tell what is what without source.
That is "Foreman" - one of the older canonical video test sources. I think it's available from VQEG, but it seems their FTP server is down.
__________________
Ben Waggoner
Principal Video Specialist, Amazon Prime Video

My Compression Book
benwaggoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2021, 00:38   #75  |  Link
benwaggoner
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_MiSfit View Post
That’s not really the point. This is sub 1 Mbps 1080p it’s not something most people on doom9 care about.

The artifacts in motion are way less distracting. It’s just very impressive to see what can be done with an AV1 bitstream using the same amount of compute as x264. This demonstrates very clever optimization and lots of smart early exits.

It’s the “superfast” of SVT-AV1
Yeah, it's quite impressive to get that good that fast with AV1 compared to where aomenc performance was 2+ years ago!

While we mainly talk about new codecs in terms of potential bitrate reductions at constant quality, quality @ perf is also really important. In general a new codec should be able to provide at least somewhat better quality at the same perf as the prior generation.
__________________
Ben Waggoner
Principal Video Specialist, Amazon Prime Video

My Compression Book
benwaggoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2021, 02:53   #76  |  Link
VoodooFX
Banana User
 
VoodooFX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 985
Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
That is "Foreman" - one of the older canonical video test sources.
This doesn't look like that canonical "Foreman".
VoodooFX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2021, 03:23   #77  |  Link
Blue_MiSfit
Derek Prestegard IRL
 
Blue_MiSfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,988
Ah yeah it's the newer one that Elemental (not netflix, sorry lol) put together and offered up in 4k for free awhile back. Sadly since they were acquired by AWS their old website is gone, so I'm not sure if these clips are available anymore
__________________
These are all my personal statements, not those of my employer :)
Blue_MiSfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2022, 11:04   #78  |  Link
Blue_MiSfit
Derek Prestegard IRL
 
Blue_MiSfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,988
Looks like rate control is still pretty terrible. I did a 2 pass VBR encode on the slowest preset targeting 1 Mbps for a ~1000 frame clip and it ended up hitting an average bitrate of like 640 Kbps and looked quite bad :|

So... that's a work in progress I guess!
__________________
These are all my personal statements, not those of my employer :)
Blue_MiSfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2022, 03:36   #79  |  Link
Blue_MiSfit
Derek Prestegard IRL
 
Blue_MiSfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,988
I continue to be impressed by this encoder. My favorite animated 1080p24 test clip encoded at 8.5 fps on my Ryzen 9 5900x using preset 4. This is actually a bit faster than CRF 36 x265 on preset slower (both producing similar data rates, approx 1 Mbps). The resulting file from svt-av1 had better min and harmonic mean VMAF scores by several points and avoided moving artifacts that were quite distracting on the x265 version.

This is by no means comprehensive, but outperforming x265 slower while running faster is a significant accomplishment.

Granted.. this is with CRF. Per my last post, rate control is still hilariously bad, at least in my test clip (which I think is a very realistic rate control test).
__________________
These are all my personal statements, not those of my employer :)
Blue_MiSfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2022, 09:15   #80  |  Link
takla
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 182
v0.9.0 Release
Quote:
  • New faster presets M9-M12, M12 reaching similar complexity level to that of x264 veryfast
  • New multi-pass and single pass VBR implementation minimizing the quality difference vs CRF while reducing the cycle overhead
  • Quality vs density tradeoffs improvements across all presets in CRF mode
  • Added support for CRF with capped bitrate
  • Added support for overlay frames and super resolution
  • Fixed film grain synthesis bugs
  • Added experimental support for higher than 4k resolutions
  • Added experimental support for the low delay prediction structure
  • Significant memory reduction especially for faster presets in a multi-threaded environment
  • API configuration structure cleanup removing all invalid or out of date parameters
  • Speedup legacy CPUs for faster development by adding SSE code for corresponding C-kernels
  • Updated the code license from BSD 2-clause to BSD 3-clause clear
  • Cleaned up the code for various kernels
  • Updated the user guide and feature documentation
takla is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 18:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.