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Old 3rd April 2019, 10:21   #61  |  Link
chros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
hdmi 2.1 is not making a TV worthless it simply doesn't add anything to it yet.
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
That being said, the existence of HDMI 2.1 does NOT make our HDMI 2.0 TV's completely obsolete by any means.
You are right of course, I meant the used market (money wise) after 2-3-5 years when someone wants to replace it.

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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
My main concern is where I would put all the old ones..
Put it in another room, give it to a family member / neighbour / exgirlfriend/wife
Joke aside, if you go for a dealer/retailer with which you can exchange your current TV 3-5 years later for a newer model, then problem solved.

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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
My main concern is that the drawbacks of current-gen OLEDs frighten me a bit. My room is never pitch-black during daytime (not even close), and I feel like the black level of my Sony is "just fine", so I've been debating myself on the drawbacks of OLED, vs. the drawbacks of Quantum-Dot Full-Grid LCDs, etc.
I'm in the same situation, during bright daylight my CCFL LCD is perfect, during the evening is another matter

If we only talk about madvr content: 3dluts rescue us, we can create ones with elevated shadows even for gamma 2.2 for day usage (and they be be switched with a script if needed), even using hdr2sdr pixelshader.
If normal content is considered (that I don't have ) I'm pretty sure similar effects can be achieved by using the TV settings for day usage.

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Burn-in, ABL trouble, motion stutter, LG OLEDs have all these firmware issues
Well, I can tell you my opinion between the 2 technology later

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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
I could get a QLED-type TV a size class bigger then an OLED for the same price. So...
Personally, I would go for the size then. But I always wanted to have an OLED.

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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
I typically wait til night to watch UHD movies on my C8 because of the brightness issues. Watching tv is fine but a good HDR movie requires "proper" ambient lighting.
That's just insane! Just choose a UHD bright comedy during the day
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Old 3rd April 2019, 15:05   #62  |  Link
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Nice one LG. From Vincent Teoh:

https://twitter.com/Vincent_Teoh/sta...39059899187200

"Unpopular opinion: unless you were seeing lots of near-black flashing/ macroblocking in regular viewing on your 2018 LG OLED with Alpha 9 chipset, AND have access (self or hire pro calibrator) to CalMAN AutoCal, you probably shouldn't upgrade to firmware 04.10.31."
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Old 3rd April 2019, 18:30   #63  |  Link
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That's just insane! Just choose a UHD bright comedy during the day
Meh, I do most of my movie watching at night anyway. I just have WAY too much ambient light during day time. (A couple picture windows on both sides of the house and a very open living room/kitchen design). At night, lighting is almost perfect.


As for Vincent's opinion, yea, no kidding. I 100% agree with that and need to find a way to go back to the previous version. Cause it SUCKS.
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Old 8th April 2019, 17:07   #64  |  Link
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Unable to display any of 4k resolution to B8

Guys, I need your professional help, the title says all. But I *can* display 1080p resolution on it! Wtf?!

Symptoms:
- everything is good until the sign-in screen of Windows (probably before the drivers get loaded), straight after that Windows goes nuts:
-- completely grey background with only a mouse cursor on both external monitor and on TV for about 30-60 sec
-- after that the sign-in screen is presented and Windows try to sign in automatically over-and-over again, black/green/sign-in screen is flashing
-- you can't do/see anything (no ctrl+alt+del, etc) , just reset / turn-off button
- if PC is connected straight to the B8 (no AVR in the chain):
-- the above happens even if the TV is off (standby) !!!
- if AVR is in the chain and B8 is Off:
-- Windows works fine on the external monitor (seems that the AVR blocks the connection between the PC and TV in this case)
- if AVR is in the chain and B8 is On:
-- Windows goes nuts as above described

What does this tell us?

I tried out all the following (I aged couple years during 2 days ):
- 5 (4 different) HDMI cables
- different HDMI ports of the TV
- different wall sockets for the TV and PC (I thought maybe some interference)
- no matter if "HDMI Deep color" is On/Off in the TV settings
- no matter if HDMI label is set to HDMI X / PC in the TV settings
- disconnected the other external monitor
- took out the AVR from the chain
- took out the GPU and put it back in the PC
- reset the PC BIOS (just in case)
- removed the nvidia driver with DDU and installed a different one
- tried to hook up my laptop (optimus hd400 + gt650m on Win8.1) but no matter what I did (e.g. delete the b8 in CRU and restart) there wasn't any 4k resolution to choose from in Intel control panel
- and who knows what else that I don't remember

The whole thing started like this:
- since my previous TV was/is also an LG, Windows didn't recognised the new device and I didn't have 4k resolution to choose from (neither in Win settings nor in nvidia settings)
- I manually deleted the existing TV device from Windows settings and after the reboot nothing has been changed: still wasn't any 4k resolution
- deleted all the LG devices from CRU (!) and after reboot the new device appeared correctly (checked in CRU) BUT - luckily - still set to 1080p (as the previous was). That's why I knew that this resolution works!
- after that I tried to select a 4k resolution and that's when the sh*t just hit the fan

Right now I can only think of 3 things:
- Windows issue -> reinstall is required
- TV firmware issue (*.36 , the latest one) -> try to revert manually back to a previous one and pray
- PC hardware issue / incompability -> I don't have a clue how could I diagnose this part

The specs in my signature (except for the TV).
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Old 8th April 2019, 18:51   #65  |  Link
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My first guess is something CRU did (Windows reinstall), it is at that part of the story where it sounds like things went wrong.
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Old 9th April 2019, 13:09   #66  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
it's supposed to be notable better in term of banding
You mean better than the LG tv?
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Old 9th April 2019, 16:04   #67  |  Link
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back when the Martian movie thingy was tested yes the sony was able to present the sky without a ton of bending.
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Old 10th April 2019, 11:40   #68  |  Link
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My first guess is something CRU did (Windows reinstall), it is at that part of the story where it sounds like things went wrong.
Yep, thanks. What popped into my mind this morning is that I could test my system from booting Live OSs from USB (before reinstalling the whole thing), e.g. Ubuntu Linux or Win10.
I just searched for Win10 Live and we can create USB boot media with: Rufus, WinToUSB
So, that's what I will try first.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:51   #69  |  Link
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... I could test my system from booting Live OSs from USB (before reinstalling the whole thing), e.g. Ubuntu Linux or Win10.
Thanks, Asmodian, reinstalling Win10 solved the issue, I don't know what happened. I thought LTSB is rock stable but ... ) Before that I tried it out with Ubuntu Live usb pendrive to rule out hardware issues (WinToGo was absolutely unusable (slow) on a pendrive).
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Old 15th April 2019, 13:17   #70  |  Link
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Lg oled65b8

I. SDR/HDR10 in PC mode on B8 (firmware 04.10.36), test results (details in my signature):

*Chroma 4:4:4*
- the result is really close to 4:4:4 (although not exactly) in 23p as well both with SDR and HDR10 content, tested with:
-- ChromaRes.png, test2, Quick brown fox, etc.
-- Ted pointed out that it's not fully 4:4:4 (under "Differences between YCbCr and RGB-Video" section) (although the difference is still huge compared to 4:2:2 in normal (HDMI) mode):
--- this can be visible on the yellow and the bottom row text of Quick brown fox image

*23p judder free playback*
- there *is* chroma 4:4:4 *and* judder free 23p/24p/etc playback in PC mode!!! (stutter is still there but that's normal on OLEDs), tested with:
-- custom timing 23p with CRU (with the help of madvr)
-- testufo and judder_23.976fps*.mp4 file in Mehanik HDR10 test pattern
--- the above tests were validated by switching between normal (RealCinema Off and On) and PC modes
-- BFi is unusable (flickering darker picture)

*Banding*
SDR content:
- there's banding in PC mode using both 8bit and 10bit input (difference is minimal between the 2); tested with:
-- grayscale ramps files in AVSHD 709 test pattern set
-- this is visible with the above test files even from a normal viewing distance (~3 meters), but it's *barely* noticeable with normal content
HDR10 content:
- there's heavy (!) banding in PC mode using both 8bit and 10bit input (difference is clearly visible between the 2); tested with:
-- grayscale ramps files in Mehanik HDR10 test pattern
-- this is clearly visible with the above test files even from a normal viewing distance (~3 meters), and it's present with normal content as well

So, for me, since 23p judder free playback is available in PC mode, near chroma 4:4:4 rules out everything, so I'm quite happy about it!

II. SDR/HDR10 Normal HDMI mode (non-PC mode) notes:

*Chroma 4:4:4*
- not supported, only chroma 4:2:2 (in every refresh rates)

*23p judder free playback*
- supported *if* Real Cinema is On *and* True Motion is Off
- stutter is still present but that's normal on OLEDs
- BFi is unusable (flickering darker picture)

*Banding*
- 8bit: no banding
- 10bit: minimal banding only (not visible from normal viewing distance even when using test patterns)

*Strange firmware bug* ?
- overscan kicked in native 4k resolution when mpc-hc/be+madvr changed file or was closed. wtf?!
-- changing resolution / frequency doesn't help anything
-- only switching TV Off then On fixes the problem: but it only last until the first use of mpc-hc/be
- the above problem is non-existing in PC mode!

*Note about HDR10 and madVR*
- on a HDR capable display "HDR passthrough" is the recommended setting! (although madVR can do dynamic tonemapping in recent test builds but the image becomes way too soft compared to passthrough)
- B8 tonemapping with different HDR10 metadata
- Dynamic Tonemapping can be enabled in the TV: this will also touch the lower end (0-100 nits) not just the highlight range (>100 nits)
-- it's a matter of preference whether to use it (I do like it)

IV. External 3DLUT creation for SDR content:

*Notes*
- the display only can be profiled reliably (creating a 3dlut) using SDR content!!!
-- to auto calibrate it with HDR10 we would need Calman AutoCal to adjust 1024 grayscale values and the 3 RGB values only! (not possible to create a 3dlut with AutoCal either for HDR10)
-- Dolby Vision would need a separate signal generator!
- the display can even behave strange due to (mostly) ABL behaviour (see below) using SDR content
- we will create only one DCI-P3 3dlut for night usage and madVR will auto convert other formats (e.g. BT.709)
- note: out of 3 created 3dluts only 1 was acceptable after checking it with dark scenes, so you also might have to create multiple ones if you won't be lucky

*ABL behaviour*
- 2018 models have at least 3 types of ABL: ASBL, ABL (can't be turned off) and ANSD (can be turned off recently)
- highest nit setting with SDR content where ABL still doesn't kick in: 39 Oled light -> 141 nits (so rtings did a good job)
-- tested with: meter + 100% full screen white @ D65 white level calibration
- hence I set oled light using SDR content to 33 (~120 nits) for night and 39 (~140 nits) for day usage (ISF Bright and Dark presets)

*Color gamut, Gamma and Black level TV settings*
- Gamut: "Wide" option is the closest to DCI-P3, tested with meter + HCFR
- Gamma: 2.4 for night and 2.2 for day usage
- Black level needs to be set to "High" on the TV, Full range (0-255) output has to be selected in graphics driver and PC Levels (0-255) in madVR

*MadVR calibration settings*:
- "display is already calibrated"
- DCI-P3 + 2.4 power gamma (for night)
- "send bt.2020 to display" must be *unchecked* :
-- although this option instructs B8 to switch to bt.2020 mode even if "Auto" option is selected (TV correctly reports it) but it results in oversaturated colors in every

*DisplayCal settings for SDR content*:
- select "madVR SDR profile (D65, BT.709)" profile
- device tab: enable LG WRGB spectral correction
- 3dlut tab: DCI-P3 D65 + 2.4 gamma + relative + 100% output offset

*Newer approach*:
- SDR with HDR effect

III. Communicating with B8 (firmware 04.10.25)

This part is here.
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Old 15th April 2019, 14:09   #71  |  Link
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are these "calibrator" taking 3D LUT into account?
just use native to do the gamut mapping with the 3d LUT.
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Old 15th April 2019, 15:28   #72  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
are these "calibrator" taking 3D LUT into account?
No, they aren't
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just use native to do the gamut mapping with the 3d LUT.
Yes, thanks, but which one is it? Wide?
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Old 15th April 2019, 16:30   #73  |  Link
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i don't know you have a meter so well use it i guess and give send BT 2020 a try the TV may response differently.
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Old 15th April 2019, 19:49   #74  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
So, I tested SDR on B8 (firmware 04.10.36) and I settled down with PC mode, the results (details in my signature):
- in normal mode (non PC mode) overscan kicked in native 4k resolution when mpc-hc/be+madvr changed file or was closed. wtf?!
-- changing resolution / frequency doesn't help anything
-- only switching TV Off then On fixes the problem: but it only last until the first use of mpc-hc/be
- the above problem is non-existing in PC mode!
This problem can be fixed if you want to. I went through this same nonsense when I switched back from PC mode to standard mode and I was eventually able to fix it. I'd have to go digging in the settings again to find which one fixed it but I had to toggle something off and back on again and then it worked. I think it's a really weird bug in their firmware. In any case, if you ever want this fixed let me know and I'll go hunt it down.
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Old 15th April 2019, 20:29   #75  |  Link
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chros, huhn is correct. Calibrators don't use "wide" for normal calibrations. For 3D LUTs, you want the display in its widest (native) mode, so for the LGs "wide" is the proper setting. "Send BT.2020" doesn't make a difference here.

As to the overscan issue, strangely enough this happened to me very recently on my C7. First time ever since I bought it in 2017. Hasn't done it since.

Did you actually verify that 4:4:4 works below 60Hz? I tested everything back when I first got the TV and noticed that the LGs are seriously limited in PC mode.
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Old 15th April 2019, 20:32   #76  |  Link
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Oh, and my OLED light is at 45. I never notice any ABL. ASBL was disabled in the service menu.
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Old 16th April 2019, 11:50   #77  |  Link
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Quote:
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i don't know you have a meter
You are absolutely right.

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Originally Posted by VBB View Post
overscan issue, ... happened to me very recently on my C7
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
This problem can be fixed if you want to. I went through this same nonsense ... and I was eventually able to fix it ... find which one fixed it but I had to toggle something off and back on again ... if you ever want this fixed let me know and I'll go hunt it down.
Thank You guys, at least I know I'm not alone
SamuriHL, it would be nice if you could find it / link it, if it's not a big hustle to do so. I'll add it to the above post of mine then. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by VBB View Post
chros, huhn is correct. Calibrators don't use "wide" for normal calibrations. For 3D LUTs, you want the display in its widest (native) mode, so for the LGs "wide" is the proper setting. "Send BT.2020" doesn't make a difference here.
Thanks, I know that you already told me this and you were right, Wide is the correct one, but using my chain/system, "Send BT.2020" needs to be *unchecked*, otherwise I get oversaturated colors (see the above post).

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Did you actually verify that 4:4:4 works below 60Hz? I tested everything back when I first got the TV and noticed that the LGs are seriously limited in PC mode.
Yes, I did, added the to above post.

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Oh, and my OLED light is at 45. I never notice any ABL. ASBL was disabled in the service menu.
Thanks, I haven't turned off ASBL in InStart menu yet (I haven't seen it in action yet). I've also added ABL section to the above post.
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Old 16th April 2019, 15:33   #78  |  Link
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Thank You guys, at least I know I'm not alone
SamuriHL, it would be nice if you could find it / link it, if it's not a big hustle to do so. I'll add it to the above post of mine then. Thanks!
So go into picture settings, under Aspect Ratio set it to original and then Just Scan On. Auto did not work for me. Once I changed this, the stupid problem has gone away permanently.
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Old 16th April 2019, 15:43   #79  |  Link
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So go into picture settings, under Aspect Ratio set it to original and then Just Scan On.
Thanks, I'll give it a try and report back. It's set to "Just scan" now (both in normal and PC mode).
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Old 16th April 2019, 15:47   #80  |  Link
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Yea, and like I said previously, when I switch modes from PC back to standard, I have to go toggle Just Scan to off and then back on. So I really think they got some weird bug going on.
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