WMV VCM - What about the runtime?

Max of S2D · 26th July 2009, 14:17

Hello there,

I'm planning on using the VCM Implementation of WMV along with VirtualDub. I'd like to know if this version actually uses the runtime installed on one's system; I wouldn't like it using an outdated component.

Midzuki · 26th July 2009, 14:36

Since Windows XP Service Pack 0

, Microsoft, by default, doesn't let MS applications install outdated components. FWIW, the file wmv9vcm.dll hasn't been updated since 2003. More info at:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=112634

HTH.

Max of S2D · 26th July 2009, 15:12

Yeah, I saw that. To be more exact, is the VCM going to use the latest runtime it will find or does it use its own?

Midzuki · 27th July 2009, 05:34

The VfW interface of WMV9 is "self-contained" --- it's not related to the DirectShow "runtime files" for the latest Windows Media Player. Don't worry, it's not going to "downgrade" anything on your computer.

benwaggoner · 27th July 2009, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max of S2D

I'm planning on using the VCM Implementation of WMV along with VirtualDub. I'd like to know if this version actually uses the runtime installed on one's system; I wouldn't like it using an outdated component.

And what are you trying to do with it?

It'd be nice if he added straight-up Format SDK, DirectShow, or MediaFoundation support to VirtualDub, as that'd get better WMV support for free.

I know there was supposedly someone from Microsoft who said he couldn't at one point. But it's clearly allowed by the EULA. If someone from Microsoft waved him off, they were freelancing, and haven't been willing to fess up since

.

Dark Shikari · 27th July 2009, 11:15

Last I recall the VCM version doesn't even support B-frames...

Max of S2D · 28th July 2009, 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by benwaggoner

And what are you trying to do with it?

Encode!

:v

I'd better use WME9 + AviSynth if it turns out not to be using the latest improvements, though...

Blue_MiSfit · 28th July 2009, 10:34

Try out expression encoder 3 if you're hard-set on encoding VC-1. Otherwise, encode H.264 with x264 in a CLI based GUI, like MeGUI or Ripbot264.

Max of S2D · 28th July 2009, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_MiSfit

Try out expression encoder 3 if you're hard-set on encoding VC-1. Otherwise, encode H.264 with x264 in a CLI based GUI, like MeGUI or Ripbot264.

Well, yes, VC1 is a restriction.

Is Expression Encoder definitely better than WME9, though? And does it support AviSynth input?

benwaggoner · 28th July 2009, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max of S2D

Well, yes, VC1 is a restriction.

Is Expression Encoder definitely better than WME9, though? And does it support AviSynth input?

Yes and yes!

Faster, 8-way threaded encoder.
Better 2-pass VBR rate control
All the advanced registry key features implemented as parameters.

Honestly, you can probably cut bitrate in half at a given quality compared to the VCM codec.

If you can share any info about your scenario, I'd be happy to offer some tuning advice.

Max of S2D · 28th July 2009, 21:07

Sending 960x540 masters for upscale on HD 720p on YouTube, and download available at will on a site. Filesize limit is 400 megabytes, and the running time is between 2:30 and 20/30 minutes (it truly depends). It's entirely CG content (machinima actually).

Now I gotta see how much EE costs.

Also, does it support encoding from a set of PNG/BMP files, otherwise than through an AVS script? That's why I wanted to stick with VirtualDub + WMV VCM

EDIT: http://blogs.msdn.com/expressionenco...2/9845044.aspx

Unexpected. What limitations does this free version have, other than the uninteresting (in my case) smooth streaming?

benwaggoner · 29th July 2009, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max of S2D

Sending 960x540 masters for upscale on HD 720p on YouTube, and download available at will on a site. Filesize limit is 400 megabytes, and the running time is between 2:30 and 20/30 minutes (it truly depends). It's entirely CG content (machinima actually).

Okay. So your bitrate range goes down to 2667 Mbps. That's in the reasonable range for 2-pass VBR for most Machima. But if you're uploading to YouTube, wouldn't you want 720p @ 1 Mbps? Or are these two different encodes?

Anyway, the VC-1 HD 720p VBR preset would be a good starting point. Is this 30p or 60p?

It'd start by turning on chroma search; CGI, particularly if there's colored text, can get help from that. Do you have any online samples of what you're working with?

Quote:

Also, does it support encoding from a set of PNG/BMP files, otherwise than through an AVS script? That's why I wanted to stick with VirtualDub + WMV VCM

AVS is pretty easy for that. If you have QuickTime Player Pro, you can also use it to make an image sequence (.mov reference movie)

Quote:

Unexpected. What limitations does this free version have, other than the uninteresting (in my case) smooth streaming?

For what you want to do, nothing.

You don't get the MPEG-2/H.264/AC-3 decoders, nor Smooth Streaming or MPEG-4/H.264 output.

But AVS to WMV, you'd get everything you'd need with the free version, and MUCH better quality and performance than VCM.

Max of S2D · 30th July 2009, 00:51

Sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GreFp6H7Lo0

I'm not the one that will upscale onto HD; that's the YouTube staff with their special things who are gonna do that.

Also, I stick with 25fps all the time.

Thanks a lot for the tips & tricks

aldenml · 30th July 2009, 02:57

I recomend you play a little with Smooth Streaming. I would like to see your videos with true HD quality. Regards.

Max of S2D · 31st July 2009, 12:46

Question: is there a way to embed a subtitle (SRT, for example) file into a WMV using EE3?

Midzuki · 31st July 2009, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max of S2D

Question: is there a way to embed a subtitle (SRT, for example) file into a WMV using EE3?

AFAIK, the ASF container only supports the "script command" type of subtitles

But you can always remux the WMV stream into a less-inflexible container such as MKV

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=147953

benwaggoner · 31st July 2009, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max of S2D

Question: is there a way to embed a subtitle (SRT, for example) file into a WMV using EE3?

As Midzuki says, a WMV only has a script stream of text. If you're using Silverlight for playback, you've got plenty of control over how that's presented (or could do runtime rendering of .srt directly with a little managed code parser work). That wouldn't render in WMP.

In theory, SRT or anything coudl be muxed into ASF as user data, but existing players don't support it.

But if the script stream works for you, yes. You can either input captions directly, or import them in DXPF, SAMI, or XML format. It works quite nicely. You can also extract script streams from existing content back to XML

26th July 2009, 14:17	#1 \| Link
Max of S2D Machinima.com Director Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: France Posts: 15	WMV VCM - What about the runtime? Hello there, I'm planning on using the VCM Implementation of WMV along with VirtualDub. I'd like to know if this version actually uses the runtime installed on one's system; I wouldn't like it using an outdated component.

27th July 2009, 11:15	#6 \| Link
Dark Shikari x264 developer Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 8,666	Last I recall the VCM version doesn't even support B-frames... __________________ Follow x264 development progress \| akupenguin quotes \| x264 git status ffmpeg and x264-related consulting/coding contracts \| Doom10

28th July 2009, 10:34	#8 \| Link
Blue_MiSfit Derek Prestegard IRL Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 5,989	Try out expression encoder 3 if you're hard-set on encoding VC-1. Otherwise, encode H.264 with x264 in a CLI based GUI, like MeGUI or Ripbot264. __________________ These are all my personal statements, not those of my employer :)

28th July 2009, 21:07	#11 \| Link
Max of S2D Machinima.com Director Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: France Posts: 15	Sending 960x540 masters for upscale on HD 720p on YouTube, and download available at will on a site. Filesize limit is 400 megabytes, and the running time is between 2:30 and 20/30 minutes (it truly depends). It's entirely CG content (machinima actually). Now I gotta see how much EE costs. Also, does it support encoding from a set of PNG/BMP files, otherwise than through an AVS script? That's why I wanted to stick with VirtualDub + WMV VCM EDIT: http://blogs.msdn.com/expressionenco...2/9845044.aspx Unexpected. What limitations does this free version have, other than the uninteresting (in my case) smooth streaming? Last edited by Max of S2D; 28th July 2009 at 21:32.

26th July 2009, 14:36	#2 \| Link
Midzuki Unavailable Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: offline Posts: 1,480	Since Windows XP Service Pack 0 , Microsoft, by default, doesn't let MS applications install outdated components. FWIW, the file wmv9vcm.dll hasn't been updated since 2003. More info at: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=112634 HTH.

26th July 2009, 15:12	#3 \| Link
Max of S2D Machinima.com Director Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: France Posts: 15	Yeah, I saw that. To be more exact, is the VCM going to use the latest runtime it will find or does it use its own?

27th July 2009, 05:34	#4 \| Link
Midzuki Unavailable Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: offline Posts: 1,480	The VfW interface of WMV9 is "self-contained" --- it's not related to the DirectShow "runtime files" for the latest Windows Media Player. Don't worry, it's not going to "downgrade" anything on your computer.

30th July 2009, 00:51	#13 \| Link
Max of S2D Machinima.com Director Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: France Posts: 15	Sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GreFp6H7Lo0 I'm not the one that will upscale onto HD; that's the YouTube staff with their special things who are gonna do that. Also, I stick with 25fps all the time. Thanks a lot for the tips & tricks

30th July 2009, 02:57	#14 \| Link
aldenml Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 5	I recomend you play a little with Smooth Streaming. I would like to see your videos with true HD quality. Regards.

31st July 2009, 12:46	#15 \| Link
Max of S2D Machinima.com Director Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: France Posts: 15	Question: is there a way to embed a subtitle (SRT, for example) file into a WMV using EE3?