madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Neo-XP]

Originally Posted by madshi

2) When disregarding speed, how would you rate NGU Anti-Alias Very High vs. NNEDI3 256-taps, for image upscaling?
3) When taking speed into account, how would you rate NGU Anti-Alias vs NNEDI3 at the various quality levels, for image upscaling?
4) Same as 2) and 3), but for chroma upscaling.

4) NNEDI3 256-taps is better than NGU Anti-Alias Very High for chroma upscaling.
For my use, NNEDI3 64-taps (I can't do 128-taps with my graphic card) looks better than any NGU Anti-Alias.
However, NGU Anti-Alias is a very big improvement over NGU (Sharp) for chroma upscaling, but it is not quite as good as NNEDI3 yet.
Anyway, I use Jinc for chroma upscaling now, because the image is visually similar to NNEDI3 64-taps, with a lot less of resources needed (GPU and CPU).

Original :


NNEDI 64 / 256:


NGU NGU Anti-Alias low / med / high / very high :


Also, I am still not convinced with NGU Sharp High in v0.91.7 vs NGU-med in v0.91.1 when upscaling FHD to 4K.

Here is another comparison I have made :

Original : http://www.mediafire.com/file/bo4439.../original3.png
v0.91.1 : http://www.mediafire.com/file/z09geg7cov5exid/old3.png
v0.91.7 : http://www.mediafire.com/file/0069oc381y59pch/new3.png

You can clearly see the differences on the watch and the ring of the man in the left side, and in the eyes of the three.
I hope this help you to improve NGU for next versions.

[x7007]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

unless you have lots of low quality blurays I would use artifact removal - debanding: low/high or low/low. I would also select Image enhancements for every source, some sources look better with sharpen edges, some worse. I don't use any image enhancements by default.

Are you using any trade quality for performance options?

Otherwise those look like good settings to me.

So for Remux and high quality 1080p should I Low/Low or Low/High ?

[cork_OS]

Originally Posted by madshi

I really don't understand how anybody could want nearest neighbor when looking at these results:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/202526

Yes, very impressive comparison. But you've used superres with NGU AA. So, SuperRes can improve NGA AA output? Or it's just a workaround to subpixel shift?

[galneon]

Having a fullscreen exclusive mode issue after updating to MPC-HC 1.7.11. In the past, when I'd right click, there would be a pause and the context menu would come up, then after I was done with the menu, exclusive would re-engage. Now, the screen goes black for ~6 seconds and returns to fullscreen exclusive without displaying a context menu. I think what is happening is it's switching out, then immediately switching back into exclusive without the menu ever showing. Workaround is to only access the context menu from windowed mode. This is a little annoying since I've already experienced an increased delay in fullscreen exclusive switching when I went from Win7 to 10 (I know, that's MS's fault).

MPC-HC 1.7.11, madvr 0.91.7, Windows 10 x64, GTX 970.

Anyone else?

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by x7007

So for Remux and high quality 1080p should I Low/Low or Low/High ?

Yes, debanding med and high do remove details. Even good blurays often have banding during fades so high is a reasonable choice for fades but I use debanding low/low myself, unless the source has obvious banding.

Originally Posted by galneon

This is a little annoying since I've already experienced an increased delay in fullscreen exclusive switching when I went from Win7 to 10 (I know, that's MS's fault).

MPC-HC 1.7.11, madvr 0.91.7, Windows 10 x64, GTX 970.

Anyone else?

Do you need FSE? Windowed DX11 or Windowed Overlay work better for me with Windows 10.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Yes, debanding med and high do remove details. Even good blurays often have banding during fades so high is a reasonable choice for fades but I use debanding low/low myself, unless the source has obvious banding.



Do you need FSE? Windowed DX11 or Windowed Overlay work better for me with Windows 10.

To me, all 8-bit sources have some banding. Especially if that source has been compressed.

[galneon]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Do you need FSE? Windowed DX11 or Windowed Overlay work better for me with Windows 10.

I suppose not... I don't output 10-bit after all. It's hard for me to disable exclusive as I'm the guy who complains when a new game only offers borderless fullscreen, but forced triple buffering is the issue there.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by hajosattila

Artifact removal - Deringing: Off

Aww man, put the deringer on already, it's one of the most mind-blowing features I've seen in mVR to the point that I'm wondering how I could watch anything before this popped up

[Bloodred]

Originally Posted by x7007

So for Remux and high quality 1080p should I Low/Low or Low/High ?

I find that medium or high debanding sometime smooths out too much and can destroy subtle gradients, as in it turns them into a large blob of a single color and removes some detail. I wouldn't (and don't) use them in any general purpose profile and would only turn them on with specific sources where the banding is really bad. That really shouldn't be the case with 1080p BD remux files, at least I personally haven't seen any yet that suffered from terrible banding. That's more something I associate with low-quality SD stuff.

[70MM]

Im upscaling BDs to 4K with madvr and want to use a small amount of sharpening since I blow the image up to a large 145" scope dia screen.
Where is the best place to use sharpening, under Processing > Image enhancements or in Upscaling refinement?

Also is it advisable to use AR, does it add any softness or artefacts?
If so where is the best place to add it, Image enhancements or upscaling refinement?
As there are a number of sections where AR is, do you add it more than once or once only from one section?

[MariaX9]

Originally Posted by leeperry

Aww man, put the deringer on already, it's one of the most mind-blowing features I've seen in mVR to the point that I'm wondering how I could watch anything before this popped up

Wasen`t Deringing producing some artifacts with NGU? And ppl recommended it to turn off with NGU?

[ryrynz]

Whenever I'm creating or deleting a profile the scroll bar resets back to the stop, madshi can you fix this, also that one character input bug has been a pain in my ass for about a year now..
Would've liked for simple things like to to be fixed before upgrading to 0.91.7 but oh well, Anyway I'm doing this finally on the HTPC so I can give NGU AA a proper test with my setup.

Originally Posted by Neo-XP

4) NNEDI3 256-taps is better than NGU Anti-Alias Very High for chroma upscaling.

TBH all I'm seeing here is sharpness difference here, not anything to do with quality. I'm interested to see if NGU soft/AA can rival super-xbr 100-125 though.

Now that I've had a quick play with NGU AA on the HTPC, I'm actually preferring it's more natural/balanced appearance at least in combination with my Avisynth profile during viewing.

Had to add some adaptive sharpen to balance things out but the overall result is quite nice, I'm now using very high for my anime 480 profile and medium for my 720.

Madshi, would you consider releasing anything in between high and very high in future, there appears to be rather big jump between them in performance and appearance.
I'm also interested in looking at possibly any alternative builds of the very high setting, not sure if there are any tangents that can be looked at though.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by 70MM

Im upscaling BDs to 4K with madvr and want to use a small amount of sharpening since I blow the image up to a large 145" scope dia screen.
Where is the best place to use sharpening, under Processing > Image enhancements or in Upscaling refinement?

Also is it advisable to use AR, does it add any softness or artefacts?
If so where is the best place to add it, Image enhancements or upscaling refinement?
As there are a number of sections where AR is, do you add it more than once or once only from one sectioned enhancement ?

Use image enhancements on 1080p content and upscaling refinement on content that needs to be upscaled.

[Neo-XP]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

TBH all I'm seeing here is sharpness difference here, not anything to do with quality. I'm interested to see if NGU soft/AA can rival super-xbr 100-125 though.

original (extracted by MPC-BE) :



super-xbr 100 / 125 / 150 :



NGU AA low / med / high / veryhigh :



Nnedi 16 / 32 / 64 / 128 / 256 :



super-xbr is not very good unfortunately compared to NGU AA and Nnedi.
Nnedi seems to be more precise (but not necessarily sharper) and hides artifacts better (for instance the artifacts under the black letters) than NGU AA. It also looks cleaner overall.

[nevcairiel]

Using an RGB image as an "original" when the source is clearly 4:2:0 seems to be a bad way to test chroma upsampling.

[steakhutzeee]

Hi, what about if i want to learn how to set properly Madvr? I'm on an Intel i5 4590, MSI R9 270X 2GB and 8GB RAM.

[Neo-XP]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

Using an RGB image as an "original" when the source is clearly 4:2:0 seems to be a bad way to test chroma upsampling.

The comparison was not done with the original (extracted by MPC-BE) image of course, I just don't know how to extract properly the source image for you to test if necessary, or if it is even possible, but whatever

I guess that a better test would be to have an original RGB image, encode it to 4:2:0, and then compare the result after chroma upscaling with madVR with the original. The closest to the original would win.

Anyway, I would use NGU AA in next versions for chroma upscaling if NNEDI3 is removed. It would also be nice to have more options for chroma doubling (Lanczos3 AR or Jinc AR).

This is what I've found to be the best for chroma doubling : Bicubic60 AR < Spline64 AR < Spline36 AR < Lanczos4 AR < Lanczos3 AR < Jinc AR

[70MM]

For Chroma Upscaling is it better to use NEEDI3 at 16 or Super Xbr at 150?

[steakhutzeee]

What about i want to learn how to properly configure Madvr last version? I'm on Intel i5 4590; an MSI R9 270X 2GB and 8GB ram.

[70MM]

Originally Posted by Warner306

Use image enhancements on 1080p content and upscaling refinement on content that needs to be upscaled.

So in the area of Upscaling Refinement is has absolutely no effect on 1080p content?