SACD ripping

[Midzuki]

@ Mr. Falks :

any good-news on the horizon ?

As usual, apologies for my impatience.

[vfalks]

it is still being worked on. patience, world, patience. meanwhile, I have left the project entirely, and when it happens the ps3 guy will post and share it all for everyone.

don't chuck out your sacds that's for sure.

[vfalks]

An update sent to me today on SACD cracking [i.e. ripping]: direct from the ps3 guy, the SACD copying saviour:

"Let me tell you guys where I am right now.. The current status is that I can finally raw read SACDs from GameOS. Surprisingly this was the biggest hurdle until now (got this working last week!!), it turned out I had to re-authenticate the drive in order to allow disc access. But these functions (two lines of code) were hidden very deep in the shell and seemed completely unrelated to disc access , but I found them ..

So reading and writing is finally working:
http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper..._lv2_storage.c

Another thing I've been reversing is the communication with the SacModule (the module that authenticates the drive in order to decrypt the SACD, and also deals with the decryption of the revocation table (if the disc has one)):
http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper...sac_accessor.c

So at this point authentication seems to work, and the decryption process starts without errors. But... the "decrypted" data is wrong (problem occured yesterday, so still, very fresh..). In other words the drive is "decrypting" the data, but the key that the drive is using seems to be wrong.. so that's going to be the last hurdle.. and I hope that's not going to take the amount of time that I had to spend on drive authentication..!

...

btw. to speed up the process I've tried to contact others but I don't get any response or useful help from anyone..

but.., I think you know by now I'm very persistent.. "

So...it's looking hopeful. This guy really is dedicated, and we all owe him a huge thanks, if/once it is completed and given to us in what he at one point said is probably easy for him to just make it a natively signed PS3 app [this being possible thanks to the master signing key leaked by geohot] - not some complicated nighmare downgrading linux method. Additionally, he'll probably help to port the ripping code to windows so that you can connect the PS3 BD drive [easily buyable on ebay, from people's broken down PS3s where they sell the parts], to your computer, and rip it in windows that way. just then he said about this: "porting the authentication module is going to be tough though. Emulating an SPU and running the SacModule in there is probably your best bet. But then again, the PS3 is superior as it has all that in there..". and who knows what else will happen, once the initial method [just using ps3] is fully working and shared.

[Music Fan]

It seems that the PS3 rip procedure is not perfect and add a gap between some tracks ;
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...ll=1#post73202
I hope a solution will be found.

By the way, does anybody know if there's a way to merge several stereo Sacd albums (each making around 1,2 GB) to make a 4 GB ISO containing 3 albums ?
I guess one can't simply merge ISO, but I wonder if there's a way to extract the songs of 3 albums and re-create a structure with the songs of the 3 albums keeping it in Dsd (without Dsd to PCM conversion).
I believe that Sacd can't contain several titles that could be divided in chapters (songs in this case) like a Dvd, that's why I guess one has to re-create a new structure to change the number of the tracks following the first album (whose track's number don't need to be changed of course). If the first album contains 10 songs, the first song of the 2nd album would be the 11th song, and so on ...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally Posted by Music Fan

By the way, does anybody know if there's a way to merge several stereo Sacd albums (each making around 1,2 GB) to make a 4 GB ISO containing 3 albums ?
I guess one can't simply merge ISO, but I wonder if there's a way to extract the songs of 3 albums and re-create a structure with the songs of the 3 albums keeping it in Dsd (without Dsd to PCM conversion).
I believe that Sacd can't contain several titles that could be divided in chapters (songs in this case) like a Dvd, that's why I guess one has to re-create a new structure to change the number of the tracks following the first album (whose track's number don't need to be changed of course). If the first album contains 10 songs, the first song of the 2nd album would be the 11th song, and so on ...

Have you tried to see if TSmuxerGUI or MKVmerge supports merging the extracted streams? I'd be interested to know...

[derbeDeus]

Originally Posted by Music Fan

It seems that the PS3 rip procedure is not perfect and add a gap between some tracks ;
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...ll=1#post73202
I hope a solution will be found.

By the way, does anybody know if there's a way to merge several stereo Sacd albums (each making around 1,2 GB) to make a 4 GB ISO containing 3 albums ?
I guess one can't simply merge ISO, but I wonder if there's a way to extract the songs of 3 albums and re-create a structure with the songs of the 3 albums keeping it in Dsd (without Dsd to PCM conversion).
I believe that Sacd can't contain several titles that could be divided in chapters (songs in this case) like a Dvd, that's why I guess one has to re-create a new structure to change the number of the tracks following the first album (whose track's number don't need to be changed of course). If the first album contains 10 songs, the first song of the 2nd album would be the 11th song, and so on ...

You can't "simply" merge the ISOs. You were probably thinking to use regular tools for disc images, tools that work with ISO9660 and UDF filesystems. SACD ISOs are not like that, they have (in most of the cases) only their own filesystem, that can be extracted with sacd rip tools, only!

After you extract them, indeed you can use a SACD authoring program to mix a disc with whatever tracks you like (iirc, SuperAuthor from Philips).

[Music Fan]

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

Have you tried to see if TSmuxerGUI or MKVmerge supports merging the extracted streams? I'd be interested to know...

I don't believe it will work with dsd.

[Music Fan]

Originally Posted by derbeDeus

You can't "simply" merge the ISOs.

That's what I said.

Originally Posted by derbeDeus

After you extract them, indeed you can use a SACD authoring program to mix a disc with whatever tracks you like (iirc, SuperAuthor from Philips).

Thanks, I will take a look.
Is there anything to do to avoid the "click" (or gap) between tracks at the authoring ?
And I'd like to add titles if possible.
When we do this kind of disc (with Super Author), is it a real Sacd (without protections I guess), playable on all sacd players, or is it a Sacd-r, which can't be played on all players ?

edit : I forgot to ask what are the differences between Sacd, Sacd-r and Dsd Disc.
I guess that Sacd-r and Dsd Disc are different because PS3 can play Dsd Disc but not Sacd-r.
Is there still a watermark (or any other protection) on Sacd-r or is it removed when copied by PS3 ?

[Ghitulescu]

Originally Posted by Music Fan

When we do this kind of disc (with Super Author), is it a real Sacd (without protections I guess), playable on all sacd players, or is it a Sacd-r, which can't be played on all players ?

This is the first time when I've heard of a SACD-R, so I'll join the question? Are these compatible with the existent standalones, do they work on PS3 only, or worse, on a properly-equipped PC only?

The question (my question) is of a pure intellectual one, as I don't have for the time being a SACD player.

Originally Posted by Music Fan

edit : I forgot to ask what are the differences between Sacd, Sacd-r and Dsd Disc.
I guess that Sacd-r and Dsd Disc are different because PS3 can play Dsd Disc but not Sacd-r.
Is there still a watermark (or any other protection) on Sacd-r or is it removed when copied by PS3 ?

SACD and DSD discs are, if I may, like an CD-Audio versus a CD-ROM with WAV files, it lacks the SACD structure. For more informations have a look in some manuals of pro gear (like Tascam DV-RA1000) which can create such DSD discs.

[Music Fan]

Thanks, but I believe Dsd Discs are not as simple as dvd-rom containing audio files (in dsd), because there is a structure like said there ;
http://www.ps3sacd.com/dsddiscguide.html

[pandy]

What is wrong in conversion DSD to PCM? Is there any REASONABLE explanation? SACD ripping should be possible with modified SACD player, DSD stream is converted in D/A converter that support DSD at the input (however seems that at least TI, NPC, chips convert DSD stream to PCM so is there any PURE DSD D/A converter?)

Answering myself direct DSD mode is supported now only on CS4398 - is someone else made direct DSD D/A converters?

[derbeDeus]

Originally Posted by Music Fan

When we do this kind of disc (with Super Author), is it a real Sacd (without protections I guess), playable on all sacd players, or is it a Sacd-r, which can't be played on all players ?

edit : I forgot to ask what are the differences between Sacd, Sacd-r and Dsd Disc.
I guess that Sacd-r and Dsd Disc are different because PS3 can play Dsd Disc but not Sacd-r.
Is there still a watermark (or any other protection) on Sacd-r or is it removed when copied by PS3 ?

SACD refers to original discs.
SACD-r refers to copies, discs burned on dvd+-r/rw.
There's no compatibility difference between a rip from a SACD and a disc you build with author program. It's just that you won't be able to write it to a disc with the watermark protection, so you'll have only a SACD-r, known to work only on some players. Afaik, the watermark protection is a physical one, so yeah, it is removed when ripping.

DSD discs are regular UDF discs that you create with decompressed tracks, put in folders, on a dvd. Usually, SACD discs have tracks stored with dst compression. There are tools to decompress them to dsd, but the catch here is that a dsd disc will be 3x bigger than its sacd source, so you need to fit in 4.37 or 7.91 GB.

[Music Fan]

Thanks, so the only difference between originals Sacd and Sacd-r is the watermark but nothing in the structure, right ?

Concerning Super Author, I read that it produces a BAT image that has to be converted to ISO to be burned on Dvd.
How to transform BAT to ISO ?
Can we simply open the BAT file and create an ISO with ImgBurn or a special program is needed ?

On this website are some free DFF stereo files (legal download) ; one can test Super Author with these files ;
http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

Here is an interesting topic to follow, ozmillsy is apparently the developer of Sacd Ripper ;
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/show...action-backups

About Scarletbook.exe, it seems to decompress DST to DSD, but is there a way to extract DST files from the ISO without decompressing them ? It could be useful to compile several albums on 1 dvd.
Maybe without registering DecoderComp.dll, as it seems to be used only to decompress DST, but I don't know if the program can extract files without this dll. Look at this post ;
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/show...l=1#post541777

As said in this post, Philips Protech DST Encoder can encode Dsd in Dst, but avoiding de-compression and re-compression would be simpler ;
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/show...l=1#post544377

[derbeDeus]

Originally Posted by Music Fan

Thanks, so the only difference between originals Sacd and Sacd-r is the watermark but nothing in the structure, right ?

Yes. It's more to say that it's a rip and it's gonna go on a -r disc.

Originally Posted by Music Fan

Concerning Super Author, I read that it produces a BAT image that has to be converted to ISO to be burned on Dvd.
How to transform BAT to ISO ?
Can we simply open the BAT file and create an ISO with ImgBurn or a special program is needed ?

Never used Super Author myself, but I imagine that it creates isos, eventually with another extension.

Originally Posted by Music Fan

About Scarletbook.exe, it seems to decompress DST to DSD, but is there a way to extract DST files from the ISO without decompressing them ? It could be useful to compile several albums on 1 dvd.

Scarletbook, by default, only extracts the tracks as they are. It decompress them if you explicitly ask for it with -c option.

>scarletbook -? for help
>scarletbook --input=file.iso -P to extract

Most of the discs have tracks in compressed dst. There are some, though, to have dsd on stereo.

[Music Fan]

Thanks

Originally Posted by derbeDeus

Never used Super Author myself, but I imagine that it creates isos, eventually with another extension.

Actually it's DAT and not BAT as i wrote above, sorry.
Anyway, if DAT is the only output format supported by Super Author, do you believe that ImgBurn could make an ISO with it ?
I never built ISO, I don't know how it works (but I can burn it of course).

[derbeDeus]

Originally Posted by Music Fan

Thanks


Actually it's DAT and not BAT as i wrote above, sorry.
Anyway, if DAT is the only output format supported by Super Author, do you believe that ImgBurn could make an ISO with it ?
I never built ISO, I don't know how it works (but I can burn it of course).

dunno, try it. rename dat to iso and burn it to a dvd-rw

[Music Fan]

I tried this method which worked (look at the 2nd post written at 22:38:07) ;
http://avaxhome.ws/software/software...ild_11188.html

It's done for Pyramix but it works with Super Author (the lbm file has been done with Super Author, as said in the last sentence).

The main thing to know is how to make an ISO from the DAT (the file DVDIMAGE.DAT) : actually, it's useless because UltraISO can open the DAT and burn it. Don't forget to untick Use NeroAPI in config, burn. I guess one can build the ISO and it should also work if burned with ImgBurn.
I let it in Disc-at-Once and my Sony BDP-S370 could read it without clicks between tracks (actually 1 track divided in 3 with Super Author).

My pc can explore this disc while he can't with ISOs done by PS3.

I could make it thanks to the files given by this guy (dvdasacd), but I don't understand how to ;
-put different tracks in Super Author ; when I add a second track, the first track's properties change and become the same than the second ! Very annoying.
-know the tracks length (not detected by Super Author and it's apparently needed).
Thanks if anyone can explain it to me.

[derbeDeus]

Originally Posted by Music Fan

My pc can explore this disc while he can't with ISOs done by PS3.

I think certain sacd authoring programs add udf filesystem aside from native sacd fs (scarletbook).
You can test this by loading the iso/dat in imgburn. When in Write mode it should tell you the filesystem of the iso.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I'd be quite happy if I was able to re-encode multi-channel SACD streams to multi-channel PCM streams.

Indeed, a few months ago I bought Moving Pictures by Rush on Blu-ray disc. And have been most impressed with the format, as they can easily be backed-up to .ISO.

It's also pretty easy to create/generate muxes suitable for use with Blu-ray hardware players, complete with chapter points and video/still images...

[Music Fan]

@ derbeDeus ;
ImgBurn does not handle DAT in build mode (or maybe he can build an ISO from the DAT but there's no information about the DAT's content while UltraISO shows the files) and can't detect the filesystem of the PS3's ISO.
In Read mode, ImgBurn sees the Sacd created by Super Author as ISO9660 + UDF (1.02) -same format than dvd-video- but can't detect the filesystem of the Sacd burned from the PS3's ISO.