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Old 17th May 2023, 20:30   #161  |  Link
nhw_pulsar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
A more relevant comparison would be something like x264's --tune stillimage.

I think I found something like this provided good web quality at a small file size:

x265 --preset placebo --range full --keyint 1 --fps 1 --crf 18 --aq-mode 4 --aq-strength 2 --psy-rd 3 --psy-rdoq 5 --rd-refine

--no-sao and a lower crf can improve detail if a bigger size isn't an issue.
Hi,

I forgot to thank you for your 2 still frame encoding commands with x264 and x265.

Sadly, I won't have time to test them my side, very sorry, but if some people could test them and let us know how they would (visually) compare for example to AVIF -s 0, then I would be very interested.

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 11th June 2023, 19:35   #162  |  Link
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Hello,

Just a quick update to remind you that NHW codec is only developed for -q9 to -q23 settings and it is absolutely not ready for extreme compression.

But maybe it should be my new focus now, to develop -q0 to -q8 compression settings?

Because some people seem to be testing at extreme compression, for example I had last year a quick conversation with a MPEG video compression expert, and apparently video compression experts seem to test at extreme compression, because he tested NHW at something like -q4 setting if I remember correctly, and he answered me that he was not convinced of NHW compared to VVC, but I answered him that NHW was absolutely not developed for -q0 to -q8 settings (!), and then our discussion stopped.

I did not really test but it seems that VVC is extremely interesting at extreme compression, and when we learn that ECM is 40% better than VVC, yes it's a real revolution that could be announced: to have good quality images at very small/tiny sizes.That could be game changing, but on the other hand ECM is very slow to decode which is a major drawback.

So would some of you really need that I develop -q0 to -q8 settings? Really don't know how far I could go there, I can first start to revise the psychovisual model parameters for these settings, they are too severe and so wash too many things out... I also think that a post-processing filter will really become important at extreme compression.

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 25th July 2023, 19:24   #163  |  Link
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Hello,

Just a quick update, yes I have taken a lot of delay in releasing the version 0.3.0 of NHW... I however found some time to work on NHW this month of July but I did not manage to improve it... I start to think now that the next essential step that will have a real visual impact, is to design a post-processing filter that will remove aliasing from decoded images and that would also improve reconstructed quality.But designing such a beast is above my forces currently, so I think there's nothing much to expect for NHW for the rest of this year...

But I can be wrong, as some people seem interested in NHW, if some of you managed to improve NHW, it would be great if you could share it!

BTW to finish, in 2015 an engineer told me that the vast majority of low-power IP cameras were using MotionJPEG, and that they could be interested in NHW as it was lower power than JPEG, but this project never materialized.I wanted to know, in 2023 does MJPEG is still the leading codec for the low-power IP cameras market and does the niche industry could be still interested in a lower power codec for this market? Also any niche application suggestion where the low-power NHW codec could be interesting, is very welcome!

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 27th July 2023, 17:36   #164  |  Link
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I would recommend checking first that there are still low-power IP cameras out there that use 512x512,.... (I doubt it)
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Old 27th July 2023, 18:17   #165  |  Link
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Hi,

Actually, I think that the engineer that contacted me was interested in the NHW technology for its low power aspect.And if his company had decided to develop NHW, then I also think it would have been possible that they delegated ressources to adapt NHW to any image size (maybe with my help).But sadly, this project never materialized...

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 27th July 2023, 19:02   #166  |  Link
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Quote:
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I would recommend checking first that there are still low-power IP cameras out there that use 512x512,.... (I doubt it)
Yeah, 512x512 is really a thumbnail image size these days. Smaller thumbnails have value in many applications, but they're not the "main thing" people are optimizing for.
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Old 27th July 2023, 19:23   #167  |  Link
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Yeah, 512x512 is really a thumbnail image size these days. Smaller thumbnails have value in many applications, but they're not the "main thing" people are optimizing for.
Hi Ben,

I would like to end this debate.I am not trying to find applications for a 512x512 codec, but I just would have liked to find a company/organization that could be interested in NHW technology and that would like to develop it.

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 31st July 2023, 17:15   #168  |  Link
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Hello,

Ok, that's right that if since 2008, none company/organization was interested in the NHW codec, it very means that there is an extremely big problem with my approach.Yes that's right that compression bodies told me they can not evaluate my codec because of its restricted 512x512 size, it can not encode their test/evaluation images.

But again so unfortunately, adapting NHW to any image size is _for me_ an extremely big task, and I absolutely won't be able to do that massive effort.So NHW will stay an experimental playground for image compression enthusiasts. I think I will let "sleep" NHW for the rest of this year, as I have other priorities now.

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 2nd August 2023, 16:32   #169  |  Link
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If you ever pick it up again, would a fixed size of 2048 x 2048 or 4096 * 4096 be of some value? Or even 8192 x 8192?

Big sizes fast seems more interesting than small sizes fast, and you can always just mask it and use a smaller part of the canvas.
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Old 2nd August 2023, 18:48   #170  |  Link
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If you ever pick it up again, would a fixed size of 2048 x 2048 or 4096 * 4096 be of some value? Or even 8192 x 8192?

Big sizes fast seems more interesting than small sizes fast, and you can always just mask it and use a smaller part of the canvas.
Hi,

Thank you for your suggestion.

Yes that would be better, but actually going beyond 512x512 will require quite some code modifications.Actually for a 512x512 image, you have a 256x256 first order wavelet DC image, and I was very lazy but I coded all the processings on this wavelet DC 256x256 image, like notably the residual coding and the loop-feedback correction, with char variables (8bit). So going larger will require some important code adaptation/modification, and I am very sorry but I don't have the forces to do it...

I am aware that this is a very experimental version, but contrarily to some people who say that NHW will really degrade at larger/big size, I think that NHW should perform the same for larger sizes just as 512x512.

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 10th August 2023, 19:10   #171  |  Link
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Hello,

I could find some time these last weeks to work on NHW... I tried to improve the global tuning, I coded some new processings, but none of that worked.My aim is not to increase neatness (as it tends to oversharpen, for me) but to keep the current neatness and improve more and more precision.... But I didn't manage to improve that aspect.Now it seems very hard to achieve a real visual improvement in that regards (for me), but actually I am happy with the visual results of NHW v0.3.0-rc1 last version.I know I really shouldn't say this and you'll consider me as an unserious troll, but as my eyes seem very sensitive to neatness, then I visually prefer the results of NHW v0.3.0-rc1 than the latest version of AVIF and VVC VTM 12.3... -so maybe I'll also freeze this version and bump the number to the official v0.3.0 release...-

As I said (yes many times), I think now that an extremely important and beneficial processing to develop would be a post-processing filter that will remove aliasing from decoded images and that would globally improve reconstructed quality. But I am a total newbie with it... I have read that there are anti-aliasing filters, but would they work on NHW decoded images? I also could think of machine learning for this design, and for example train a model on aliasing patterns (which are often the same)? I would also like that this post-processing enhancement filter stays compatible with my very fast decoding/high speed goals if possible.As I will have less time now to work on NHW, it would be great if I could find a collaboration for this so important post-processing design.If you could help, do not hesitate to show up!

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 16th September 2023, 19:33   #172  |  Link
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Hello,

Quite many people urged me to adapt NHW to any image size, I know that it is essential but I am very sorry again, but it is a very too much colossal task for me (and my spare time) currently.

Now, I can find little time to work on micro core improvements for subjective visual quality. I am actually puzzled because I tried some new ideas that on the paper should work, but when I visually reviewed them, images were not better, and so surprisingly, it's hard for me to visually improve the current NHW v0.3.0-rc1 version...

Yes some people also told me that NHW is uninteresting and quite bad because it has very bad PSNR and SSIM results which are the reference criteria of evaluation for the industry, but all I can answer to that, yes it's very controversial, but VVC VTM 12.3 (slowest preset) has extraordinary PSNR and NHW has extremely bad PSNR, but when you actually look at the images then I visually prefer the NHW images than VVC ones, mainly because they have more neatness.VVC has more precision, but to my taste, neatness is visually more pleasant than precision... -Not to say that NHW has no post-filters for now that would remove aliasing...-

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 21st September 2023, 20:23   #173  |  Link
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Hello,

For those interested, I have released the NHW v0.3.0-rc2 version.

This new version presents a "micro core improvement", now I better compute the "weights" for the nhw_kernel in the pre_processing, resulting in a little visually better version.

More at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/

-This visual improvement seems more pronounced on some images than others, but I maybe did not test on enough images at that time...-

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 12th October 2023, 20:30   #174  |  Link
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Hello,

Just a very quick message, for those interested, I have released the NHW v0.3.0-rc3 version.

This new version presents an incremental visual improvement, I continue to better compute the weights for the nhw_kernel.This version has then more precision, and so seems a little visually better.

More at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 9th November 2023, 22:25   #175  |  Link
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Hi,

Just a quick update, I am still trying to better compute the weights for the nhw_kernel, but it seems ultra-sensitive to the different parameters (you can also add a third kernel estimation, a weight saturation, and other things...) but for now I did not find the good weight estimation that would give better visual results than the current NHW v0.3.0-rc3 version.-Furthermore I don't know if I will be able to really continue to work on NHW, as I will have other priorities to care about now.-

I will also maybe considerably slow development as many experts tell me that there are too many image codecs, they can not dissipate on experimental projects like NHW, and we must focus now on AVIF and JPEG XL.So maybe NHW is yet another too many image codec, but however its difference and particularity is that it is fast, it is actually a lot faster to encode and decode than the current codecs, so it could be a good fit for some niche applications -where speed is the main criteria-, and so NHW is not totally useless...

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 2nd December 2023, 20:25   #176  |  Link
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Hello,

Another quick update, improving the nhw_kernel weight computation seems quite complex (for me), I even try rather simple things that in theory should work, but at final visual inspection, the visual quality was not better.I will also have now to quasi-put on pause the NHW development, maybe in 5 or 6 months will pop up a good idea... That's also totally right that I should stop refinements now and that I must focus on adapting the NHW prototype to any image size, but sadly this huge task is impossible for me currently as I have personal difficulties now.

So I don't expect some improvements in the next months, but I am also satisfied with the latest v0.3.0-rc3 version which can be maybe considered as the official 0.3.0 release? In the meantime, I wanted to let you know that if someone could help me to submit the NHW codec prototype to the MPEG and AOM emerging technologies/exploration programs, it would be very kind, as I never could submit my work/technology to these exploration programs... -Some submitting arguments could be a very good image neatness and an ultra-fast speed...-

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 7th December 2023, 21:15   #177  |  Link
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Hello,

I have released the NHW v0.3.0-rc4 new version.

Yes I am slowing down my work on NHW, as I tried quite complex nhw_kernel weight computation formulas, but finally it is this trick that seems to do the work and seems to bring a visual quality improvement.This new version has then more precision (hope my eyes were not too much tired).

More at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 21st December 2023, 20:35   #178  |  Link
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Hello,

I have released the NHW v0.3.0-rc5 new version.

I am currently developing the "tricks" around the current nhw_kernel weight computation formula.This new version has then more precision and a better visual quality.

More at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 28th December 2023, 21:26   #179  |  Link
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Hello,

For those interested, I have released the NHW v0.3.0-rc6 new version.(Yes, will have to release 0.3.0 version).

I still continue to fine-tune the nhw_kernel weights.This new version seems then to have more precision and so seems to have a little better visual quality.

More at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/

Cheers,
Raphael
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Old 30th December 2023, 16:53   #180  |  Link
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Hello,

Yes I have let a big error in the NHW v0.3.0-rc6 version: in pre_processing(): else if (j>1 && abs(nhw_kernel[scan-1])== -(sharpn2+21))

This condition is never true, and so the condition code is never executed, but luckily at first sight this error seems to give better visual quality!...

I will make more tests to confirm this and clean-up the code next year.

Cheers,
Raphael
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