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Old 18th October 2021, 02:30   #62101  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
I am still thinking there must be some API function that could automatically reset the bug on MPC-HC exit. Something that does the equivalent to dragging a window around, such as rendering a few frames of video at a higher rate?
Creating a workaround for a buggy Windows 7 DWM + specific driver is very unlikely at this point in the life cycle.

Trying different GPU drivers is what I would do, if I wanted to stay on 7.
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Old 18th October 2021, 09:31   #62102  |  Link
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A "trick" to help with the bandwidth situation is to disable 10/16-bit output formats in LAV Video Decoder settings. Then it will convert 10-bit stuff to 8-bit. That costs a little CPU usage, but reduces the required bandwidth by half.
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
And thus, 10-bit uses twice as much memory as 8-bit, because its really 16-bit with 6 empty bits.
Thanks for the easy-to-understand and complete explanation!
I have not yet been able to reduce the bandwidth by changing the Output Formats in the LAV. Am I missing something?

Pic.
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Old 18th October 2021, 10:42   #62103  |  Link
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it only cuts the load for upload in half which is not that much compared to other processing which is also done on the dram on an APU.
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Old 18th October 2021, 11:33   #62104  |  Link
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Then there is no point in this "trick". A much more efficient solution to reduce bandwidth is to "use 10bit chroma/image buffer instead of 16bit".
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Old 18th October 2021, 12:01   #62105  |  Link
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Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
b) tick "restore original display mode ... when media player is closed"
What happens "when media player leaves fullscreen"? Same problem?
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Old 18th October 2021, 12:38   #62106  |  Link
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What happens "when media player leaves fullscreen"? Same problem?
Yeah.
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Old 18th October 2021, 13:51   #62107  |  Link
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Then there is no point in this "trick". A much more efficient solution to reduce bandwidth is to "use 10bit chroma/image buffer instead of 16bit".
No, it actually is a very useful general trick, and it has helped several people solve issues. In case of madVR of course additional tweaks can be used.

Your graphs might only be showing direct CPU=>DRAM transfers, and not CPU=>GPU(=>DRAM).
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Old 18th October 2021, 14:24   #62108  |  Link
huhn
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if this would be for ram bandwidth not bus "PCIe" bandwidth maybe.

this is to lower the load on the connection between GPU and CPU not the ram the ram is in a totally different league compared to the bus.
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Old 18th October 2021, 14:25   #62109  |  Link
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Is the "1 repeat frame every x minutes" on Ctrl+J accurate?

I fine-tuned my refresh rate with CRU so that my display rate on Ctrl+J is 23.97605hz, but when playing a 23.976 video it's saying "1 repeat frame every 12 minutes" which seems way too often.

By my calculation it should be something like 1/(23.97605-23.976) = 1 repeat frame every 20,000 seconds (5.5 hours).

Also should I trust the reported display rate on Ctrl+J, because I noticed it has a discrepancy of about 0.003hz vs the rate reported in Radeon Settings. Doesn't sound like much but it would amount to a repeat frame every 5.5 minutes.
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Old 18th October 2021, 15:21   #62110  |  Link
ashlar42
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Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
Is the "1 repeat frame every x minutes" on Ctrl+J accurate?

I fine-tuned my refresh rate with CRU so that my display rate on Ctrl+J is 23.97605hz, but when playing a 23.976 video it's saying "1 repeat frame every 12 minutes" which seems way too often.

By my calculation it should be something like 1/(23.97605-23.976) = 1 repeat frame every 20,000 seconds (5.5 hours).

Also should I trust the reported display rate on Ctrl+J, because I noticed it has a discrepancy of about 0.003hz vs the rate reported in Radeon Settings. Doesn't sound like much but it would amount to a repeat frame every 5.5 minutes.
Here I provided (thanks to madshi info) a general explanation of what you are experiencing. You must not aim for perfect 24/1.001, the target refresh rate depends on how much they audio clock is out of sync with video clock.

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=173571
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Old 18th October 2021, 16:14   #62111  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clsid View Post
Your graphs might only be showing direct CPU=>DRAM transfers, and not CPU=>GPU(=>DRAM).
GPU-Z
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Old 19th October 2021, 00:50   #62112  |  Link
huhn
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you have 16 lanes of PCIe 3.0 an intel iGPU from 2013 doesn't not even close to it.

while this test will show the bus speed it does not hammer it.
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Old 19th October 2021, 04:41   #62113  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ashlar42 View Post
Here I provided (thanks to madshi info) a general explanation of what you are experiencing. You must not aim for perfect 24/1.001, the target refresh rate depends on how much they audio clock is out of sync with video clock.

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=173571
Thank you, and I can confirm it works as you describe.

It turns out my 23.976hz and 50.0hz modes are already well tuned from factory, with Ctrl+J reporting 1 repeat frame every 2-4 hours. So I didn't need to tweak those modes.

However my 59.94hz mode is reporting 1 dropped frame every 3 minutes with 59.94fps video, so I need to speed up the refresh rate a bit.

This is where I ran into trouble as it seems the AMD driver or monitor only allows me tuning +/-0.003hz, otherwise it just falls back to the default timing. So the most I could achieve was 59.943hz which reports 1 repeat frame every 1.5 hours. Not great, but tolerable.

Curiously, the value first starts out at 1 repeat every 10 minutes, then gradually starts climbing until after ~2 minutes of playback it starts reporting 1-2 hours. But then sometimes it goes back down again to around 30 minutes for no apparent reason. All the while the display rate remains consistent, so I'm guessing it's the audio or system clock that is fluctuating.

I'm sure I could improve this if the driver/monitor allowed more than +/-0.003hz tuning, however I think it may be limited to this narrow range as it's a HDMI mode (1080p YCbCr 4:4:4) and maybe HDMI has strict timing requirements?
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Old 19th October 2021, 17:51   #62114  |  Link
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you have 16 lanes of PCIe 3.0 an intel iGPU from 2013 doesn't not even close to it.
I doubt that in the case of the iGPU, the quality and number of PCIe lanes matters. The iGPU is connected to the CPU using Infinity Fabric (AMD) or the Ring Bus (Intel). In both cases, the bandwidth of such a connection will be much larger than that of an external PCIe. And the DRAM bandwidth will be the bottleneck.
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Old 19th October 2021, 23:32   #62115  |  Link
ashlar42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
This is where I ran into trouble as it seems the AMD driver or monitor only allows me tuning +/-0.003hz, otherwise it just falls back to the default timing. So the most I could achieve was 59.943hz which reports 1 repeat frame every 1.5 hours. Not great, but tolerable.
This is why in the guide I use CRU. To have more control on those things... although I've been an Nvidia user for a very long time, don't know how AMD works with it.

I am glad you found the guide at least somehow useful. I should rewrite it but I never find the time.
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Old 20th October 2021, 02:14   #62116  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ashlar42 View Post
This is why in the guide I use CRU. To have more control on those things... although I've been an Nvidia user for a very long time, don't know how AMD works with it.
I am using CRU. So if I go further than +/-0.003hz in CRU, the actual display rate -- as reported in Ctrl+J and Radeon Settings -- just falls back to the default 59.940hz timing.

I suspect it's because the HDMI 1080p mode I'm using isn't a "PC mode" but rather a "TV mode", and perhaps TV mode rates are more strictly standardised by HDMI spec.

I am limited to "TV mode" HDMI signal as otherwise my TV thinks it's a "PC mode" and disables a lot of picture controls and uses different processing which I don't like. edit: and I'm pretty sure the TV's 24hz mode wouldn't work either unless it's the specific TV mode HDMI 1080p24hz signal.

Last edited by flossy_cake; 20th October 2021 at 02:34.
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Old 20th October 2021, 09:29   #62117  |  Link
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don't use the HZ to fine tune use the image "size".
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Old 20th October 2021, 13:30   #62118  |  Link
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Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
There appears to be a serious bug related to the "composition rate" used by MadVR, which can cause intense frame rate stuttering in many scenarios.

The issue appears that "composition rate" gets stuck at the rate used by the previously played file.
So the workaround I'm using which seems to be effective, is to set MadVR to D3D9, which then allows desktop compositor to be auto disabled.

So now when I double click a video file, MPC-HC opens it automatically in full screen, in MadVR exclusive mode, with desktop compositor disabled.

Then after exiting the video, MadVR reinstates desktop compositor, and compositor appears to be running at full frame rate, thus bypassing the compositor bug.

The relevant MadVR settings are in rendering > general settings:

- tick: enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode
- tick: disable desktop composition
- untick: use Direct3D 11 for presentation

For convenience I'm also setting rendering > exclusive mode > untick delay switch to exclusive mode by 3 seconds.

In theory this configuration should be compatible with Kodi, but I haven't tested it yet.
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Old 20th October 2021, 22:07   #62119  |  Link
ashlar42
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Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
I am using CRU. So if I go further than +/-0.003hz in CRU, the actual display rate -- as reported in Ctrl+J and Radeon Settings -- just falls back to the default 59.940hz timing.

I suspect it's because the HDMI 1080p mode I'm using isn't a "PC mode" but rather a "TV mode", and perhaps TV mode rates are more strictly standardised by HDMI spec.

I am limited to "TV mode" HDMI signal as otherwise my TV thinks it's a "PC mode" and disables a lot of picture controls and uses different processing which I don't like. edit: and I'm pretty sure the TV's 24hz mode wouldn't work either unless it's the specific TV mode HDMI 1080p24hz signal.
I've found this useful, can't promise the same for you, but have a look: https://www.extron.com/product/videotools.aspx

You can select both PC (VESA) timings and HDMI (SMTPE) timings. If you use the advanced tab, you have all the details and work it out from there.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 19:40   #62120  |  Link
zveroboy
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madVR can`t switch the display modes.
--------------------
madVR 141
Win 11 22000.258
NVIDIA ForceWare 496.13 DCH

================
There are no problems with switching modes on another configuration:
Win 10 19043.1200
NVIDIA ForceWare 472.12 Standart
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