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Old 18th March 2005, 19:06   #1  |  Link
absinthe
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Some PgcEdit questions - skipping intros/trace mode

I get a lot of use out of PgcEdit, but I really only use its simple functions. I create all of my DVD images with it before burning, and I use the trace mode to remove the junk before the main menu.

Every once in a while I open a set of DVD files and get this message: "Warning: There are different commands in the various PGCs of the menu LUs of the VTST 1 domain. This is somewhat unusual and may cause problems with the "Set Menu Type" and "Copy LU Commands" utilities." I'm not sure what this means. I've been ignoring it and so far haven't had problems.

However, sometimes in trace mode I will arrive at the first video (like an FBI warning) and when I try to kill playback I get the message that "At least one cell-command jumps outside this PGC. It is not safe to kill playback in this case. Continue anyway?" The commands in that particular cell are

-post: JumpTT Jump to Title 10
-cell: LinkTailPGC

Now I haven't seen that warning until recently, and I'm wondering if it's maybe a sort of redundant warning message added in the newest version. If I just ignore that warning and kill playback as usual, the disc will play in at least 3 out of 4 of my players, but it takes a long time to load up and makes those strange noises while doing so.

-abs
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Old 18th March 2005, 22:35   #2  |  Link
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That cell command simply links to the post commands and it will be safe to kill playback (and remove the video if you like - ie make it a dummy) as what you will do is simply link to Title 10.

I thought r0lZ had removed the warning for a LinkTailPGC cell command (as without it you'd eventually get to the post commands anyway).

You might also like to consider using 2COOL's JMP2PGC prog to start at the main menu. This is a program implementation of jeanl's guide (which jumps over everything until you get to the menu). You can get it on the PgcEdit site.

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Last edited by blutach; 18th March 2005 at 22:37.
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Old 18th March 2005, 23:03   #3  |  Link
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Thanks, blutach ... I will give JMP2PGC a shot.

Also, would it not be just fine to simply delete the "LinkTailPGC" cell command?

-abs
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Old 19th March 2005, 05:42   #4  |  Link
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You could do that, but you would also need to delete the cell command in the PGC Editor. Double click on the PGC to bring this up, and look under Cell Cmd and change the 1 to a 0. OK and save.

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Old 19th March 2005, 22:35   #5  |  Link
absinthe
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Quote:
Originally posted by blutach
You could do that, but you would also need to delete the cell command in the PGC Editor. Double click on the PGC to bring this up, and look under Cell Cmd and change the 1 to a 0. OK and save.
I'm having some trouble with the jmp2pgc app.

I trace to the main menu PGC, no problem. I want it to play the short video "intro" to the menu first, which is what the DVD does.

The PGC containing all this has 8 cells, the first 7 of which are the menu stills. Cell 8 contains the intro. The unaltered DVD will play this video intro first, and also I've always been able to get it to go straight to that intro by using the "Kill PGC playback" method. But for some reason I cannot seem to copy the command changes at the right spot (or whatever) in order to get this intro to play first.

In other words, using jmp2pgc renders a DVD that goes straight to the still menu (which is at the start of the PGC), bypassing the video intro (cell 8 of the PGC).

Ideers?

-abs
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Old 20th March 2005, 00:28   #6  |  Link
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Can you post your IFOs (in a zip file) so they can be downloaded?

If not send me an email and I will get back to you.

It's very hard unless we can see all the IFOs and posting them here would probably take up too much space.

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Old 20th March 2005, 02:18   #7  |  Link
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Check your emails abs.

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Old 20th March 2005, 05:25   #8  |  Link
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Thanks Les. Check yours again ... we hit the wrong PGC

My bad.

-abs
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Old 20th March 2005, 08:27   #9  |  Link
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OK abs. I have sent you a detailed email explaining why, in this rare case JMP2PGC doesn't start where you want it to.

I have also notified the prog's author and jeanl, who devised the method.

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Old 20th March 2005, 22:18   #10  |  Link
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blutach,

Thanks 4 help. It worked! Strange thing, though (as I've e-mailed you explaining), even after killing that offending title 10, playback in trace mode goes directly to the still menu. But if I burn and mount an image for playback, or just burn a DVD, it works.

Can't quite figure that out. But I thought if it was some buggy thing, the authors might want to know.

Anyway, I've got several more DVDs to do this to ... did you just use the jmp2pgc method to get to title 10? So that if I just did that and then killed title 10, I could duplicate the result?

thanks

-abs
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Old 21st March 2005, 02:01   #11  |  Link
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In this case, I simply used Kill Playback on the title 10 and (I think) on VMG 2.

If you trace very carefully, step by step in VTSM 1,1 you will indeed see that cell 8 is executed first. PgcEdit won't show it unless you have automatically start preview playback checked - it will just show you a menu with buttons. But if you look at the trace log, it surely plays cell 8 first.

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Old 21st March 2005, 14:22   #12  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by blutach
In this case, I simply used Kill Playback on the title 10 and (I think) on VMG 2.

If you trace very carefully, step by step in VTSM 1,1 you will indeed see that cell 8 is executed first. PgcEdit won't show it unless you have automatically start preview playback checked - it will just show you a menu with buttons. But if you look at the trace log, it surely plays cell 8 first.
Ok, I see that you're right on playing cell 8 in the log.

I still say there's some bugginess to trace mode. For instance, I most often use "Next PB" to step through, and often it will suddenly be in "run" mode even though I never hit that button (i.e. when the preview pops up there are "break" options in red). This seems especially true after hitting the reload button. Sometimes after hitting the reload button, there will be a general error on trace and it won't trace at all. Things seem to work most reliably if I shut down PgcEdit and start all again.

Anyway, a minor quibble. Just wondering if I'm crazy.

As far as my DVDs go, I figured that the easiest thing is just to delete that LinkTailPGC command (changing the 1 to 0). After that, I can just kill playback with no error messages).

Thanks again,

-abs
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Old 21st March 2005, 14:51   #13  |  Link
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First, Next PB will put you in run mode until the prog encounters a cell to be played. That's the idea behind it! It is functioning well.

Secondly, if PgcEdit gives trace errors, there will probably be an authoring problem.

After hitting reload (eject), start with step and you will step thru. Start with run/next PB and you're off to the races!

Hope it works out.

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Old 11th April 2005, 17:26   #14  |  Link
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When I attempt to kill PGC playback, cell commands have always presented problems. In cases where all the cell commands resulted in a transfer to a PGC in the same domain as the post command, I could ignore the PgcEdit warning message, kill the PGC playback and get the desired result. But in cases where the cell commands were significantly different and/or transferred to different PGCs or to different domains, using PgcEdit's "kill PGC playback" produced undesirable results. I had many cases where the playback was not skipped. Instead it looped indefinitely on the PGC cells.

In these situations, it appears the PGC is being executed multiple times to playback each cell in succession. So when faced with this, I had to manually program the pre command (discovered through trail and error) by copying both post commands and cell commands to the pre command section, and then adding/modifying conditional jumps/breaks to jump to the appropriate post commands or cell command that was copied in.

Quote:
Originally posted by blutach
That cell command simply links to the post commands and it will be safe to kill playback (and remove the video if you like - ie make it a dummy) as what you will do is simply link to Title 10.

I thought r0lZ had removed the warning for a LinkTailPGC cell command (as without it you'd eventually get to the post commands anyway).

You might also like to consider using 2COOL's JMP2PGC prog to start at the main menu. This is a program implementation of jeanl's guide (which jumps over everything until you get to the menu). You can get it on the PgcEdit site.

Regards

Last edited by jinjin; 12th April 2005 at 06:11.
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Old 11th April 2005, 19:07   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by jinjin
When attempting kill PGC playback, cell commands have always presented problems. In cases where all the cell commands results in a transfer to a PGC in the same domain as the post command, I could ignore the PgcEdit warning message, kill the PGC playback and get the desired result. But in cases where the cell commands were significantly different and/or transferred to different PGCs or to different domains, using PgcEdit's "kill PGC playback" produced undesirable results. I had many cases where the playback was not skipped, Instead it looped indefinitely on the PGC cells.
This is why you got the warning "At least one cell-command jumps outside this PGC. It is not safe to kill playback in this case. Continue anyway?".
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Old 11th April 2005, 19:17   #16  |  Link
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Re: Some PgcEdit questions - skipping intros/trace mode

Quote:
Originally posted by absinthe
Every once in a while I open a set of DVD files and get this message: "Warning: There are different commands in the various PGCs of the menu LUs of the VTST 1 domain. This is somewhat unusual and may cause problems with the "Set Menu Type" and "Copy LU Commands" utilities." I'm not sure what this means. I've been ignoring it and so far haven't had problems.
When loading the DVD, if there are several LUs in a domain, PgcEdit checks if all PGC commands are identical in the various LUs. Most of the time, they are. But, from time to time, there are differences.
A difference in the commands may be intentional, and may be used, for example, to jump to another PGC if the current LU language is english or, say, french. Of course, tracing the DVD in this case will produce a different result if your preferred menu language is set to english or french in the virtual player setup.
Also, the "Copy LU Commands" function is designed to allow the user to edit only one LU, and, when the edits are done, copy the commands of the current LU automatically to the other LUs. Of course, if the original LUs were not identical, it is dangerous to use this function, as the differences will be lost.
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Old 24th April 2005, 21:51   #17  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by blutach
I thought r0lZ had removed the warning for a LinkTailPGC cell command (as without it you'd eventually get to the post commands anyway).
I just ran into this. @r0lZ - any plans to not warn if that's the only cell command?
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Old 25th April 2005, 00:18   #18  |  Link
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How did you get a warning with a LinkTailPGC cell command?
In the current version, the warning for LinkTailPGC is removed.

If there are menu buttons or BOVs in the PGC, killing it is considered unsafe, and a warning is displayed.

After that, another test is done, on the cell commands.
Killing is considered safe if:
1) There are no cell commands (or the cell commands are not referenced by a cell command number in the cell table.)
2) Or, there is only one post command, and all cell commands are equal to that post command (even if that command jumps outside the PGC).
3) Or, there are no post command jumping outside the PGC.

As LinkTailPGC jumps into the same PGC, that command doesn't trigger the warning. Are you sure there is only one LinkTailPGC post command, and no buttons?

Note that there is still a dialog explaining what the macro does, and asking if you want to continue. It is not a warning. To get rid of this requester, you should select the Expert Mode in the Options menu. Most informative requesters of PgcEdit will be bypassed, as well as some confirmation dialogs (for example, "OK to quit?" when the DVD was modified but not yet saved).
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Old 25th April 2005, 05:12   #19  |  Link
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By "current version", I assume you mean 0.5.5 - I didn't see anything about this in the description of the changes in 0.5.6 beta 1.

Backing up House of Flying Daggers, Region 1 NTSC. VMGM PGC 3 contains:
Code:
********** pre commands:
[71 00 00 0D 00 01 00 00]   1  Set gprm(13) =(mov) 1 
********** post commands:
[20 04 00 00 00 00 00 04]   1  LinkPGCN PGC 4 
********** cell commands:
[20 01 00 00 00 00 00 0D]   1  LinkTailPGC
No buttons; no BOV. After selecting Macros / Kill PGC Playback, or pressing Ctrl+K, I see the first dialog explaining what it will do, I select Yes, and I see a second dialog saying, "As at least one cell-command jumps outside this PGC, it is not safe to kill playback in this case! Continue anyway?"

I initially said No, and examined the PGC carefully, both with PgcEdit and IfoEdit, but couldn't see what the problem was, so I redid it and said Yes, and had no problem playing the result.

Here's the PGC info; let me know if you want the entire IFO.
Code:
VMGM , LU 1 (en) , 3  (0:15) - Chapters: n/a,  Programs: 2,  Cells: 2 

********** pre commands:
[71 00 00 0D 00 01 00 00]   1  Set gprm(13) =(mov) 1 
********** post commands:
[20 04 00 00 00 00 00 04]   1  LinkPGCN PGC 4 
********** cell commands:
[20 01 00 00 00 00 00 0D]   1  LinkTailPGC 

********** menu buttons commands:


 Playback time:  00:00:15.24 (at 30 fps)
 PG Playback mode:  sequential
 PUOs:           32766980 (0x01F3FC04)
                 - Title play (0x00000004)
                 - Menu call - Title (0x00000400)
                 - Menu call - Root (0x00000800)
                 - Menu call - Subpicture (0x00001000)
                 - Menu call - Audio (0x00002000)
                 - Menu call - Angle (0x00004000)
                 - Menu call - PTT (0x00008000)
                 - Resume (0x00010000)
                 - Button select or activate (0x00020000)
                 - Audio stream change (0x00100000)
                 - Subpicture stream change (0x00200000)
                 - Angle change (0x00400000)
                 - Karaoke audio mix change (0x00800000)
                 - Video presentation mode change (0x01000000)
 NextPGCN:       0
 PrevPGCN:       0
 GoUpPGCN:       0
 PGC Still Time: 0
 Audio  stream  1 status: 0x00008000 (stream=0)

 But-  Prog. Cell  Type  Layer Res-  Still Cell  Playback     End          Entry    First    Last     Last     VOB Cell
 tons              Flags Break tric- Time  Cmd.  Time         Time         VOBU     ILVU     VOBU     VOBU     ID  ID
                               ted.                                        sector   End      Start    End

 0     1     1     2     yes   no    0     0     00:00:14.14  00:00:14.14  5339     0        9304     9615     3   1
 0     2     2     8     no    no    0     1     00:00:01.10  00:00:15.24  9616     0        9632     9660     3   2
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Old 25th April 2005, 09:51   #20  |  Link
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Strange. There must be a bug somewhere. I did a test in a similar situation yesterday, and it worked fine.

So, yes, please send me your original IFOs. I'll have a look.
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