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Old 21st June 2024, 11:19   #64881  |  Link
huhn
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https://madshi.net/madVR/ChromaRes.png

the screen is completely insane in terms of presentation and procession.

in filmmaker i got blue and pink lines i have no clue how the TV did that.
game mode
perset standard (in custom the color space is messed up i guess)
144 hz
sharpness 10
and the other stuff disabled like CR enhancement and so on.

gives me accurate 4:4:4 on a sub sub pixel level. i only test SDR.

isn't S&M an encoded disc? that means the chroma needs scaling to check placement madVR does this wrong for UHD and the old S&M disc did chroma wrong not following the spec they may fixed that in the new one but...
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Old 22nd June 2024, 13:11   #64882  |  Link
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Anybody having problems with latest 31.0.101.5590 Intel Graphics Driver on UHD Graphics 770 and madVR renderer? Image looks like white noise.
@nevcairiel acknowledged reports about this.
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Old 23rd June 2024, 10:29   #64883  |  Link
Manni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
https://madshi.net/madVR/ChromaRes.png

the screen is completely insane in terms of presentation and procession.

in filmmaker i got blue and pink lines i have no clue how the TV did that.
game mode
perset standard (in custom the color space is messed up i guess)
144 hz
sharpness 10
and the other stuff disabled like CR enhancement and so on.

gives me accurate 4:4:4 on a sub sub pixel level. i only test SDR.

isn't S&M an encoded disc? that means the chroma needs scaling to check placement madVR does this wrong for UHD and the old S&M disc did chroma wrong not following the spec they may fixed that in the new one but...
How do you interpret the results of the Chromares pattern? What should it look like for full 4:4:4 chroma?
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Old 23rd June 2024, 10:51   #64884  |  Link
huhn
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you should be able to see the 444 name and notice the blue sub pixel in the pink part around the 444.

the checkboard pattern around the 444 should have a similar color like the boarder which is solid color. it could be a bit darker or lighter then the boarder this depends on your gamma.

422 part should show you blue and pink lines on the top and bottom of the letters because they are 2 pixel there. a skilled eye will also see the individual liens in the 422 if you are close enough. no need for pixel peeping.

this pattern does not work when any sharpening is done like the CR enhancer and sharpness does.
for sharpness i use this:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/sharpness.php

you need to get far away from this pattern so your eyes can't see the individual pixel.
i open both of them in paint and leave them as is yeah quite small these days.

i'm not even sure we have the same screen...
https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/ima...l-png.3626471/
this is amazing
i have a red tint in warm1 and even with bt 1886 at -3 i'm not at gamma 2.4. i mean wow yours is just amazing out of the box.

i'm not confident in this screen behaviour yet there is a lot i could have missed.

Last edited by huhn; 23rd June 2024 at 11:17.
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Old 23rd June 2024, 11:00   #64885  |  Link
Manni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
you should be able to see the 444 name and notice the blue sub pixel in the pink part around the 444.

the checkboard pattern around the 444 should have a similar color like the boarder which is solid color. it could be a bit darker or lighter then the boarder this depends on your gamma.

422 part should show you blue and pink lines on the top and bottom of the letters because they are 2 pixel there. a skilled eye will also see the individual liens in the 422 if you are close enough. no need for pixel keep

this pattern does not work when any sharpening is done like the CR enhancer and sharpness does.
for sharpness i use this:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/sharpness.php

you need to get far away from this pattern so your eyes can't see the individual pixel.
i open both of them in paint and leave them as is yeah quite small these days.

i'm not even sure we have the same screen...
https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/ima...l-png.3626471/
this is amazing
i have a red tint in warm1 and even with bt 1886 at -3 i'm not at gamma 2.4. i mean wow yours is just amazing out of the box.

i'm not confident in this screen behaviour yet there is a lot i could have missed.
Thanks. Did you try to use the exact same settings I am using in FMM at 4K120 with pc mode and game mode disabled? What is your exact model and size? If under 77Ē you might have a gen 1 panel. Letís discuss calibration in my thread as I think itís fairly off topic here (apologies everyone).
Iíll just post my chroma results here when I have a chance to check it with the chromares pattern.
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Old 23rd June 2024, 11:54   #64886  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Thanks. Did you try to use the exact same settings I am using in FMM at 4K120 with pc mode and game mode disabled? What is your exact model and size? If under 77¬Ē you might have a gen 1 panel. Let¬ís discuss calibration in my thread as I think it¬ís fairly off topic here (apologies everyone).
I’ll just post my chroma results here when I have a chance to check it with the chromares pattern.
144 HZ it seem to be able to do 444 outside game mode.
CR enhancer and other settings will result in a subsampled making 444 checking really hard on this screen.
i only have entertain and graphic mode at 144 and currently there is no point in not using game mode at this refreshrate.

in filmmaker mode at 60 HZ i got the chroma test pattern to flicker and sharpness to only change the left side of the screen when i put it at 20 for testing.

i will do 120 HZ later there are a lot of setting i have to redo which could give me a false negative.

it was sold as an GQ55S90C this version wanted to default to "Niederländish" netherlands i guess in english.
this is is not the german or english edition i guess.
the internal name is QE55S90CATXXN. that supposed to be Austria.
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Old 23rd June 2024, 14:20   #64887  |  Link
Manni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
144 HZ it seem to be able to do 444 outside game mode.
CR enhancer and other settings will result in a subsampled making 444 checking really hard on this screen.
i only have entertain and graphic mode at 144 and currently there is no point in not using game mode at this refreshrate.

in filmmaker mode at 60 HZ i got the chroma test pattern to flicker and sharpness to only change the left side of the screen when i put it at 20 for testing.

i will do 120 HZ later there are a lot of setting i have to redo which could give me a false negative.

it was sold as an GQ55S90C this version wanted to default to "Niederländish" netherlands i guess in english.
this is is not the german or english edition i guess.
the internal name is QE55S90CATXXN. that supposed to be Austria.
You might have a gen1 panel if itís a 55Ē. These might not measure as well, but you would need to measure FMM at 23p with my settings to see if itís game mode ruining your calibration (it probably is, thatís why I donít use it).
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Old 23rd June 2024, 14:24   #64888  |  Link
Manni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
you should be able to see the 444 name and notice the blue sub pixel in the pink part around the 444.

the checkboard pattern around the 444 should have a similar color like the boarder which is solid color. it could be a bit darker or lighter then the boarder this depends on your gamma.

422 part should show you blue and pink lines on the top and bottom of the letters because they are 2 pixel there. a skilled eye will also see the individual liens in the 422 if you are close enough. no need for pixel peeping.

this pattern does not work when any sharpening is done like the CR enhancer and sharpness does.
for sharpness i use this:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/sharpness.php

you need to get far away from this pattern so your eyes can't see the individual pixel.
i open both of them in paint and leave them as is yeah quite small these days.

i'm not even sure we have the same screen...
https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/ima...l-png.3626471/
this is amazing
i have a red tint in warm1 and even with bt 1886 at -3 i'm not at gamma 2.4. i mean wow yours is just amazing out of the box.

i'm not confident in this screen behaviour yet there is a lot i could have missed.
I can confirm that as the S&M and quick brown fox patterns suggested, I get full 4:4:4 with the chromares pattern at 119p in 4K in FMM mode with game mode and PC mode disabled. No idea what it does outside of that, I haven’t tested it. Sharpness at zero as per the settings posted in my thread.
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Old 23rd June 2024, 14:38   #64889  |  Link
huhn
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game mode has not negative effect on calibration at 144 HZ.

FMM 120 doesn't exist here i can't even do more then 60 hz with disabled game mode. yes you can disable it after entering 120 HZ but still no FMM. so i can't test what you are asking for.
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Old 23rd June 2024, 15:09   #64890  |  Link
Manni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
game mode has not negative effect on calibration at 144 HZ.

FMM 120 doesn't exist here i can't even do more then 60 hz with disabled game mode. yes you can disable it after entering 120 HZ but still no FMM. so i can't test what you are asking for.
You need to also disable PC Mode in order to get FMM.
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Old 23rd June 2024, 15:24   #64891  |  Link
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To disable PC mode, press input, edit your HDMI input, and select anything but PC Mode (I selected Home Theatre System).
I can only talk about 4K119p HDR FMM with Game mode and PC mode disabled, as that's what I use for playback (well, 100/119/120 depending on content refresh rate) and calibrate for.
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Old 23rd June 2024, 15:31   #64892  |  Link
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Just tested with the OS set to SDR, and I only get 422 in SDR 4K 119p. That will explain why I get 4:4:4 in the QBF pattern and the S&M patterns, as I'm now using OS HDR to limit the number of HDR-related HDMI syncs. JRVR plays SDR content fine within HDR since build 55.

So try to enable OS HDR and see if you get better results chroma-wise.
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Last edited by Manni; 23rd June 2024 at 16:16.
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Old 23rd June 2024, 17:46   #64893  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
That will explain why I get 4:4:4 in the QBF pattern and the S&M patterns, as I'm now using OS HDR to limit the number of HDR-related HDMI syncs.
So... how do you know you are getting 4:4:4? In my experience the QBF and S&M patterns are not reliable.

I think your display is converting to 4:2:2 internally with better than expected results, but not true 4:4:4. I noticed this behavior with my Samsung S95B (1st gen QD-OLED).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
So try to enable OS HDR and see if you get better results chroma-wise.
Calibrated SDR with the OS set to HDR?!? How does that work?
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Old 23rd June 2024, 20:01   #64894  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
So... how do you know you are getting 4:4:4? In my experience the QBF and S&M patterns are not reliable.

I think your display is converting to 4:2:2 internally with better than expected results, but not true 4:4:4. I noticed this behavior with my Samsung S95B (1st gen QD-OLED).



Calibrated SDR with the OS set to HDR?!? How does that work?
Read the last few posts, I used chromares to validate 4:4:4 in a very specific configuration (4K120p 10bits HDR no pc mode no game mode). Also I have an S90C (2nd gen QD OLED), more recent than your S95B and with full 48gbps HDMI 2.1 (no crappy OTB limited to 40gbps).

As explained, SDR within HDR works fine with JRVR since MC32 build 55. When OS HDR is enabled, JRVR converts rec-709 BT1886 to bt2020 PQ. Off topic here, of course.
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Last edited by Manni; 23rd June 2024 at 20:05.
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Old 23rd June 2024, 21:42   #64895  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Calibrated SDR with the OS set to HDR?!? How does that work?
you technical only need to convert to sRGB and give that to windows and that's it.

you can also just create a 3D LUT while it is in that mode by not using madTPG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
To disable PC mode, press input, edit your HDMI input, and select anything but PC Mode (I selected Home Theatre System).
I can only talk about 4K119p HDR FMM with Game mode and PC mode disabled, as that's what I use for playback (well, 100/119/120 depending on content refresh rate) and calibrate for.
what a mess.
first disable game mode then disable PC mode or it will reactivate PC mode by autodetection. (no game mode auto was not used) or maybe it just still sticks to PC when i selected blu ray player.

120 HZ FMM messes up chroma the sharpness has no effect on the chroma image.

OS HDR ahh well i don't have win 11 to dial that in so the results are orange i might say...
my best guess is 422 but the pattern doesn't work because of SDR to PQ conversations.
sharpness has an effect here.
the pattern falls apart so it needs to be redone with PQ in mind and loaded as HDR or encoded as RGB.
the encoding is no problem for me the redoing in PQ is outside of my skill rnage.

sharpness 0 is clearly neutral in FMM OS HDR while it is 10 in graphics PC mode/game mode. this is very odd for samsung TVs 0 is usually the way to go.

very temporary decision for me is clearly PC mode game mode and dialling that in. the screen is very very stable a 256^3 3D LUT in SDR mode should be an easy task.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Read the last few posts, I used chromares to validate 4:4:4 in a very specific configuration (4K120p 10bits HDR no pc mode no game mode). Also I have an S90C (2nd gen QD OLED), more recent than your S95B and with full 48gbps HDMI 2.1 (no crappy OTB limited to 40gbps).

As explained, SDR within HDR works fine with JRVR since MC32 build 55. When OS HDR is enabled, JRVR converts rec-709 BT1886 to bt2020 PQ. Off topic here, of course.
40 GBPS is enough for 4K 120 10 bit(12 should work too i'm not doing the math) so there is no need for it on 120 HZ TVs are just as good with it as without it.

Spears & Munsil is more of a chroma positioning test (it was testing mpeg2 placement in the past) than a resolution test. it's a disc it can't really test resolution.
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Old 24th June 2024, 01:00   #64896  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
you technical only need to convert to sRGB and give that to windows and that's it.

you can also just create a 3D LUT while it is in that mode by not using madTPG.


what a mess.
first disable game mode then disable PC mode or it will reactivate PC mode by autodetection. (no game mode auto was not used) or maybe it just still sticks to PC when i selected blu ray player.

120 HZ FMM messes up chroma the sharpness has no effect on the chroma image.

OS HDR ahh well i don't have win 11 to dial that in so the results are orange i might say...
my best guess is 422 but the pattern doesn't work because of SDR to PQ conversations.
sharpness has an effect here.
the pattern falls apart so it needs to be redone with PQ in mind and loaded as HDR or encoded as RGB.
the encoding is no problem for me the redoing in PQ is outside of my skill rnage.

sharpness 0 is clearly neutral in FMM OS HDR while it is 10 in graphics PC mode/game mode. this is very odd for samsung TVs 0 is usually the way to go.

very temporary decision for me is clearly PC mode game mode and dialling that in. the screen is very very stable a 256^3 3D LUT in SDR mode should be an easy task.

40 GBPS is enough for 4K 120 10 bit(12 should work too i'm not doing the math) so there is no need for it on 120 HZ TVs are just as good with it as without it.

Spears & Munsil is more of a chroma positioning test (it was testing mpeg2 placement in the past) than a resolution test. it's a disc it can't really test resolution.
No idea what’s wrong your end. All I know is that chroma is fine here in 4K120 10bits OS HDR enabled pc mode disabled game mode disabled FMM. It’s not fine with OS HDR disabled. I think we’ve been off topic long enough, so I’ll just bow out.
Yes 4k120 10 bits is enough for FRL5, but some displays use DSC even though it’s not necessary, which can cause issues. Not the case with the 77S90C using the settings above.
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Last edited by Manni; 24th June 2024 at 01:05.
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Old 26th June 2024, 19:17   #64897  |  Link
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I just "upgraded" from a 1070 to a 3060 and it introduced stutters in MPC-HC + MadVR on 60fps videos. I traced it down to the new driver defaults which defaults to "power management mode: normal" instead of "max performance". In other words, if I set "max performance" mode the stutters go away completely.

I just wanted to know if it's the same for others, because max perf uses +20watts and frankly it's kind of stupid that you'd need to be running a 2GHZ GPU in "max performance" mode just to render a single texture/raster at 60fps with no 3d graphics or anything that would strain the GPU.

I tried other renderers it still stutters unless I set max perf mode in NVidia driver. Dumb!

Am I the only one with this problem?

Feedback appreciated
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Old 26th June 2024, 21:16   #64898  |  Link
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You set maximum performance for the player only or system wide?
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Old 26th June 2024, 21:29   #64899  |  Link
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You set maximum performance for the player only or system wide?
Either works for me. Currently I have it max perf globally and mpc-hc.exe is set to "use global setting".

It's just super disappointing to not get that 20watts power saving when the GPU barely breaks a sweat playing videos. In theory it should easily be able to do it at a clock speed of 300Mhz.

I just spend the last couple of hours iterating through every combination of madvr settings relating to this, like the backbuffer size/type, flush behaviour, dx9/dx11, exclusive/windowed, desktop composition, then a whole bunch of settings in NVidia Inspector relating to sync and other power modes. No improvement. It seems to stutter slightly less if I use a very short backbuffer queue and set them all to "don't flush", but it's still like 1 stutter every 20-30 seconds or so.

Last edited by flossy_cake; 26th June 2024 at 21:32.
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Old 26th June 2024, 21:38   #64900  |  Link
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Oh and one really weird thing is if I open the 60fps test video in Firefox browser it plays flawlessly and GPU downclocks to 200Mhz the whole time. In NVCP the default Firefox.exe profile doesn't expose the power management mode but NVidia Inspector reveals it to be "Adaptive" which is basically the same as the max power saver mode. So maybe it's an issue with MPC-HC.exe or DirectShow or something. I'll be installing a new motherboard and CPU next week.
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