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13th February 2015, 21:51 | #41 | Link | |
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And, is it accurate in terms of video processing? How do you know your own TV doesn't have undefeatable NR that stops you from seeing a true representation of the source? (The Samsung F8500 plasma does not have undefeatable NR, BTW - at least not in the US or European versions.) |
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13th February 2015, 22:34 | #42 | Link | |
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I think as long as we don't mention those organic LED displays from Lucky Goldstar Ken won't start posting here to defend them. Hopefully this post goes undetected and doesn't trigger the bat signal. |
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14th February 2015, 02:50 | #43 | Link |
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The TV is a Sony Bravia KDL-32V5500. The footage plays back on my laptop (Asus G73JH) with a 17.3" 1080p display, connected to the TV via HDMI. The two displays essentially show the same (except for color calibration).
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14th February 2015, 10:49 | #44 | Link |
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not sure how old that sony is but you can go into gaming/graphic or pc mode that should disable all unnecessary progressing and may give you 4:4:4. if it is not calibrated the colors are wrong any way and who knows which preset is more accurate.
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14th February 2015, 15:27 | #45 | Link |
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Bravias are some of the finest TVs money can buy, so it's no surprise it looks fantastic compared to a random Visio or Westinghouse at the store. Glad you found some decent settings to help, though.
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14th February 2015, 18:08 | #46 | Link | |
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Did you suddenly find yourself transported to the early to mid 90's making a statement like that? |
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15th February 2015, 22:11 | #48 | Link | |
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Fortunately LG took the feedback on board for the newer models! Sony LCDs aren't my specialty, so no idea what the KDL-32V5500 is doing. |
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15th February 2015, 23:31 | #49 | Link | |
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It indeed is. I've even run into some people on car forums that I knew years earlier on a few different A/V related forums.
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16th February 2015, 07:06 | #52 | Link |
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Figured it wasn't going to be easy. I'll have to stick to Neat Video for now. It's good enough that very few people will be bothered, it's a heck of a lot easier/faster, and I already have the tools I need. I don't have Noise Ninja and have a very tight budget these days. But thanks a lot for showing what's possible. Having seen your results it's quite likely I'll pick up Noise Ninja and go through the image sequences later when time/funds allow.
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20th February 2015, 04:33 | #53 | Link |
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Do you remember what you did more specifically? I'm playing with a trial of Photo Ninja, and if I reduce the noise significantly I get blotchy artifacts in the foreground snow, changing from frame to frame. Did you mask out the foreground when treating with Noise Ninja?
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20th February 2015, 13:49 | #54 | Link | |
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20th February 2015, 18:04 | #55 | Link |
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Hmm, the interface changed quite a bit. Difficult to translate the numbers, and changes in the processing engine might make a difference as well - though, the engine dropdown menu has NN 3 in it as well, and that gave me similar, changing blotches in the foreground.
Do you remember your MCTD settings? I'll play with that as well to see how it compares to Neat Video. |
20th February 2015, 21:39 | #56 | Link | |
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I'll paste my MCTD settings later when I get home. Edit: Here are my MCTD settings. I use one of these. They're in order from weakest to strongest. #MCTemporalDenoise(settings="low") #MCTemporalDenoise(settings="low", radius=3) #MCTemporalDenoise(settings="low", radius=3, sigma=6, SHmode=3, useEEDI2=false, quant1=30, quant2=60, ECrad=4, ECmode="Removegrain(3,-1)", maxr=3, TTstr=2, GFthr=1.6, thSAD=400, thSAD2=400, thSCD1=400) #MCTemporalDenoise(settings="medium") Last edited by Stereodude; 21st February 2015 at 01:19. |
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21st February 2015, 01:36 | #57 | Link |
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Two samples (adjacent frames) here and here, corresponding originals here and here. Compare the two to see how the snow at the bottom changes. This was with default "smart preset" settings as shown above and needs significant additional cleanup. As you can imagine, if I adjust either of the luminance sliders towards stronger smoothing it only gets worse. I tried using the 1920x1080 crops you were working with and additional cleanup with Neat Video. Better, but still quite visible artifacts. In your sample the foreground is fine.
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21st February 2015, 11:30 | #58 | Link |
Semper Tiro
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Ok, after improving the Neat Video treatment in After Effects I've produced what IMO is the best result so far - download here. Admittedly, on a neutral display I suspect most people would prefer Stereodude's Ninja-version because it looks cleaner and crisper, though some critical viewers would prefer the more natural looking sky (stars in particular) in my Neat-version. However, add the vicious default sharpening that many displays apply and the situation is different. Comparing the two samples on VLC with sharpness cranked up, the Neat-version has less halos and a steady image. The Ninja-version looks nervous with artificial movement that is particularly visible in the snow and along the horizon. This is the same problem with smoothing changing between frames that I was complaining about above, just better concealed.
The Neat-version has some dark pixels peppered around the image though. These are pixels that are darker than their neighbors on average. Not enough to be noticeable at low ISO or even in a single image at high ISO due to noise. But when a temporal filter has smoothed out noise, these dark pixels remain - see image below. Spatial smoothing can take them out, but at the price of unreasonable loss of detail. It would be relatively straightforward to filter such isolated dark pixels out without having to spatially smooth the whole image, but I have not found a utility to do so. Suggestions? These dark pixels are numerous enough that I'm hesitant to start mapping them individually... |
21st February 2015, 18:04 | #59 | Link | |
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21st February 2015, 23:51 | #60 | Link |
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Well, the "smart preset" obviously wasn't fit in this case. When I say it gets worse for stronger smoothing I mean in terms of the consistency between frames, which is all important for my use. For single images NN4 can also produce good results. But because of the frame-to-frame differences I don't think I'll be able to use software that processes the frames individually. I also tested Topaz Denoise, same story.
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