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26th December 2003, 22:25 | #261 | Link |
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- I like Panorama slightly better than B-Pan & B-Proc - Aurora gave excellent results, but I only used it on 3 CD-conversions, which for me is not enough to make a statement "it's better" than B-Pan. - However: Given the speed-advantage of the Bidule-setup, I'd clearly give that more 'ranking-weight' than the "maybe slightly better" of Aurora. - SIR (Super Impulse Reverb) -VST: I've just started to play with that and need to do more tests before I can make a statement. Andreas |
28th December 2003, 19:19 | #262 | Link |
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Hello Kempfand.
Thank You for your work. Do You see that in Farina's guide with Audiomulch Y-signal is connected with 4-input of B_Decoder , NOT 3-input of B_Decoder. So We have W,X,Z(silence),Y !!!!! in input of B_Decoder, NOT W,X,Y,Z. In Bidule as You wrote I did convertion with "Bette Midler - Wind Beneath My Wings" I get "Front Left" loud, but "Front Right" is very low. With "Panorama" way they are similar. ????? THX |
28th December 2003, 20:04 | #263 | Link | ||
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Hi puzio,
Quote:
As you correctly note, the reverb is done to create W,X,Y. No need for Z (as there is no information on Z in the starting stereo-wav). On the B_decoder, the pin-sequence is W, X, Y, Z (as you correctly note). According to my understanding, reverbed W should connect to W-pin of B-decoder, X to X, and Y to Y. This is also how EoH's original guide works. Quote:
Some suggestions: a) Make sure B-Proc is configured as in the guide b) Use BeSweet to demux the 6-ch-wav into the mono-wav's. If you use wav2wav6.exe, you need to either re-name the channels, or use a different channel-mapping. Good luck, Andreas |
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28th December 2003, 20:42 | #265 | Link |
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I'm not sure if I read your question ('his' guidelines ?) correctly (bear in mind that my native language is not English).
- If you refer the puzio's question about the wireing of the reverbed W, X & Y, then the answer is no (it's on my todo list). - If you refer about potential 'ownership' of guidelines, then let me state that Farina's page was just recently updated, and that the bidule I outline above does exactly what what already described here in July 2002 ( A Guide from Stereo to 5 channel Surround ! . As I said: My native language is not English, so I might mis-read. Andreas |
28th December 2003, 21:35 | #267 | Link | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
I didn't mean any offense, Andreas. I was basically wondering if anyone had contacted him about anything over the last year or so. Pax, D |
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28th December 2003, 22:20 | #268 | Link | |
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// off-topic on // Reason I didn't do it yet: I've sent a really nice & kind email to Dave Malham, saying "thank you" for the nice tools he and his team provide for free (B-Pan, B-Proc, etc). Never heard back a single word ... Needless to say that I was very disappointed (fully understanding that he might have personal reasons which make him focus on other things). Similar experience (on different topics) with Mark Taylor on tooLame (exe/dll). // off-topic off // Peace and kind regards, Andreas Edit/Add: Also wrote an email to Christian Knufinke, the author of the SIR-VST, saying "thank you". Without the effort from people such as him, all this wouldn't be possible. Last edited by kempfand; 28th December 2003 at 23:48. |
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29th December 2003, 14:22 | #269 | Link | |
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Quote:
I mailed Farina for at least 3 times and never got a response back ! grtz, EoH |
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29th December 2003, 14:40 | #270 | Link | |
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The second guide was written without any of his software. This year I emailed him for the third time and again got no response. I gave up :-) To me it's not quite clear where the problem is...... Guidelines like Farina's are on so many sides, that it's still the question if these were his' in the first place ! I mean.... he didn't invent Ambisonics ! And everyone can write guidelines about how to use tools. (even I !!) Don't get me wrong : the guy is a genius, but I don't think it's necessary to "ask him permission" to write guidelines ! I would have loved however if any of these guys came on this board and supplied us with more tips and help. But..... after emailing (Andreas did some emailing too !) and no replies, we gave up hope... What rests is that we have to find it all out by ourselves :-)) CanI add a nasty one ? If not allowed the moderator can remove it : I am not surprised that when people are selling stuff, but don't reply to emails, the potential buyers will look for illegal versions. If I ask if a routine can be explained, before buying and I get no answer, I won't buy it ! But I will try to find it out by myself with a not so legal version ! Seeing the enormous response my 2 guides have on this board, the makers of these software should think again. That's why I will give 10M kudos to David from Plogue ! When he start selling, I want to be one of the first to buy his program !! And...... don't forget it works two ways. We act as his beta-testers :-) my 2 eurocents ! EoH |
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29th December 2003, 16:47 | #271 | Link | |
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Comments from Angelo Farina
Great news: I've just got mail from Angelo Farina , which I share with his permission.
Quote:
Kind regards, Andreas |
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30th December 2003, 16:50 | #272 | Link |
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Wow. What a response. At least we know he read these posts. Strange timing on my part to ask about contacting him...
I did some comparisons with 5.1 and Pentagon, and Pentagon wins out, too. Not just with me, but to about three others who listened to some Simon and Garfunkel that I did. Pentagon won. I really don't know what is meant by "dry" recordings, though. And it is still not clear why the ambiophonics method should be used. I read through some of the stuff on the web site, but then I think "ambiophonics," I think about what Jonas was saying about using a room impulse created in the listening environment...I don't remember seeing anything about that at the ambiophonics web site. |
30th December 2003, 18:36 | #273 | Link |
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Have just uploaded to the FTP site a VST plugin to do ambiophonics.
At the moment just does the six mentioned encodings. On a lot of recordings there is a big difference from ambiosonics decoding. One I tried it out on was The Music Of The X_Files. Track 6 contains chiming bells. The reverb through the rears was spectacular. Sounded good in Emigrator too, but was not quite as pronounced, and dropped off sooner. Ambiophonics was produced as a way of producing true 5.1 from the information in an WXYZ file. This file contains the inforamtion needed for decoding X = Front back y = Left right z = Up down (when included) w = pressure signal (basicaly the input sound at -3db. Any suggestions improvements etc. Let me know. On another note, I have just got Roomverb M2 from www.spinaudio.com Putting it between the input signal and B-Proc produces very good results. This is a very good reverb engine that as heaps of presets and full control over every setting. Some recordings are really brought to life. There is a demo avaliable. |
30th December 2003, 22:01 | #274 | Link |
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specise_8472: Thanks for sharing this. This looks really
It's funny: Yesterday, I was just reading the corresponding paper and thought this would be great to try. I don't habe the necessary coding experience though, to put this into dll. I will try it tomorrow :-) Thanks again and kind regards, Andreas |
31st December 2003, 01:10 | #275 | Link | |
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Update: Specise's ambiophonics-VST ROCKS ! I just did a testing series with one song (Armik: Rubia; guitar music).
Created 9 tracks as follows: Code:
1) B-Pan, B-Proc, Emigrator (Pentagon) 2) Panorama, Emigrator (Pentagon) 3) SIR, Emigrator (Pentagon) 4) Ambio I 5) Ambio I~ 6) Ambio J 7) Ambio J~ 8) Ambio K 9) Ambio K~ Based on this one-song-only-test, B-Pan is very good, but for my ears, "Ambio J" wins (more discrete impression, nicer & broader sound-image). In general, I preferred the I , J, K -type over the "~"-type, but this is my personal impression and based on 1 initial song only. In summary @ All: Highly recommend you give it a try. If you want more technical background, read the corresponding papers from Robin Miller , especially - Transforming Ambiophonic + Ambisonic 3D Surround Sound to & from ITU 5.1/6.1 - Scalable Tri-play Recording for Stereo, ITU 5.1/6.1 2D, and Periphonic 3D (with Height) Compatible Surround Sound Reproduction @specise_8472: Quote:
If I understand this correctly, SC with dts is matrixed into the SL&SR. But this is currently probably a 'dead-end' as I'd guess that no affordable encoders are around. Any chance or idea on howto 'achieve' this packaging of SC (into SL&SR) already within the VST ? Just thinking lound ... Kind regards, Andreas |
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31st December 2003, 04:46 | #276 | Link | |
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I can output the SC if wanted, if you have a reason for it? I am looking at writing a PLI/II encoder in the future to use. Also I am looking now into a filewriter that thakes the output from the Steinberg VST AC3 encoder and puts it to disk as a valid AC3 stream. Just think from Source to AC3 in one hit. Also in the papers are mentioned that you can recover the original WXYZ file from the 5.1 track. Would there be a use for this facility to turn original AC3 tracks (and DTS) into WXYZ files for processing through emigrator to more or less speakers? Just need to reverse the plugin and change the co-efficients. About the difference between ijk ijk~, the ~ are basically the same but with the microphone tilted -30degrees. Just thinking out loud Last edited by specise_8472; 31st December 2003 at 05:49. |
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31st December 2003, 22:16 | #277 | Link |
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Hi,
I think I've set up every thing correctly but my front and rear channels sound very similar. There shouldn't be as much vocals in the rear channels as in the front, right? Can anyone help me? I must have done something wrong. Also just tried it with a mono file which I would have expected to only come through the center channel or at the most the front channels, but it has pretty much the same sound in all channels except the LFE. thanks Last edited by Ace_V; 1st January 2004 at 07:25. |
2nd January 2004, 02:36 | #278 | Link | ||||
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Quote:
For the "DTS ES matrix", I understand all that is needed is: (a) 45 degree phase shift applied to LS and RS signals (b) CS at -3db See above source, as well as dts-es.pdf Update / Edit added below Now: Quote:
--- Quote:
Don't want to 'make you work', but I'd be very keen and happ to test, if it's done without too much effort (realising here that nothing is 'easy'). --- Regarding PanAmbio 4.1: Robin Miller mentions this as Quote:
--- All this is also thinking out loud Kind regards, Andreas P.S. Have done more tests with your Ambi-rc1.dll. It still 'rocks' and wins ! Edit: I'm assuming that "DTS ES matrix" can be encoded with current SurCode version, if conditions (a) & (b) above are fullfilled. I did a test as follows; BeSweet/azidts-demux a "DTS ES matrix" encoded audio (had to use "-ota( -fs 44100"), and SurCode-re-encoded. FOrcing "DTS ES Matrix" on the amp resuited in the same audible siganl in each speaker (also SC) Last edited by kempfand; 2nd January 2004 at 03:06. |
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2nd January 2004, 03:59 | #279 | Link | |||
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Okay, one at a time
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3rd January 2004, 02:22 | #280 | Link |
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Have just uploaded Version 1 of ambiophonics decoder.
Have added 6 new presets, and deleated the 3 that did not work good. The new presets are based upon proper Ambisonic decode equations, the two versions of each are s = spherical decode and p = controled opposites. Attention Daphy - just noticed that my old DLL was gone from the site. Was this you, or are you going to have the age old problem of people deleating stuff for the hell of it |
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