madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

nearly every g-sync monitor is HFR so just use smoothmotion.
smoothmotion at 120 hz or more is a totally save.
the audio clock mismatch is fixed this way too.

[HillieSan]

Originally Posted by burfadel

That's funny! It's much the same for me but D3D11 doesn't work well! D3D9 actually runs quite beautifully.

Yes, that's funny. Are you using the latest software? (MPC-HC+LAV+madVR+AMD Drivers). What Windows version are you using?

A few months ago I couldn't use DXD9 at all. Now after a few updates of AMD drivers, madVR and blueskyFRC it seems that DXD9 works. I can't tell who caused/fixed this problem. However, sometimes I get a black screen when switching to FSE. I use now DXD11 and it works well.

BTW I use Windows 10 and I have no DXD9 game installed. Windows 10 includes DXD11. Would it made a difference if I had installed an DXD9 game?

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by madshi

Why would the "image downscaling" settings page play any role when we actually upscale the video?

Because we are downscaling double resolution? 1280x720>2560x1440>1920x1080 = downscale.

Having more thoughts about it, you might as well add a "downscale quality: use image downscaling settings instead" suboption if it really makes sense to you to leave them unused for some reason, so newbies can still use the three existing presets and experts can still go the older way : everyone's happy

I very much would like to still be able to run CR AR LL to downscale doubled 720p@1080p and SSIM2D100LL+50%AB to downscale SD

[StinDaWg]

Not sure I'm crazy about the limited presets for downscaling after image doubling either. I always used AR+LL for downscaling, but you are saying with these presets that LL is "wrong" or that it is "placebo"? I can see the difference between LL on and off, especially with white text, but I don't know which is "correct". I thought the consensus was that you were supposed to use LL for downscaling?

If it's not needed then it's not needed, just would like some clarification.

[leeperry]

^ +1, I've A/B'ed a number of times and I much prefer LL for downscaling whatever sxbr or NGU. I think my proposition in my previous post will make everyone happy, hopefully madshi will not object

[Crimson Wolf]

Originally Posted by huhn

well i got in a huge problem with my GTX 960 with some very heavy slow downs (AVG 60 ms or more) using a 3D LUT and this is completely gone with the RX 480.

this could come back with a 1060 so i'm in a pickle one would say.
but that's not your problem.

ohh these drivers...

I'm just curious about your problem with the GTX 960. Have you monitored your gpu/mem clock while you were experiencing these slow downs? IIRC, a few drivers ago, the "optimized power" settings limited my gpu/mem clock to 650mhz/800mhz even though my madvr settings were high load playing with MPC-HC64. I had switched to adaptive power and it was fine, until I played a x265 8-bit 720p to 1080p (using doubling) and it went back to the lower power setting again for some strange reason. Another x264 file did not have this issue. I have now set MPC-HC64 to be max performance.

[Gagorian]

Originally Posted by Crimson Wolf

I'm just curious about your problem with the GTX 960. Have you monitored your gpu/mem clock while you were experiencing these slow downs? IIRC, a few drivers ago, the "optimized power" settings limited my gpu/mem clock to 650mhz/800mhz even though my madvr settings were high load playing with MPC-HC64. I had switched to adaptive power and it was fine, until I played a x265 8-bit 720p to 1080p (using doubling) and it went back to the lower power setting again for some strange reason. Another x264 file did not have this issue. I have now set MPC-HC64 to be max performance.

I concur with this. On my GTX 1070 playback is stuttering without max performance forced in the NVIDIA control panel. Driver updates also seem to revert this setting back.

[burfadel]

Originally Posted by HillieSan

Yes, that's funny. Are you using the latest software? (MPC-HC+LAV+madVR+AMD Drivers). What Windows version are you using?

A few months ago I couldn't use DXD9 at all. Now after a few updates of AMD drivers, madVR and blueskyFRC it seems that DXD9 works. I can't tell who caused/fixed this problem. However, sometimes I get a black screen when switching to FSE. I use now DXD11 and it works well.

I use Windows Insider 14971, Crimson 16.11.4, latest MPC-HC BE and LAVFilters.

I think you may have a similar issue to me just a lot less extreme. I do actually get the black screen when it switches to full screen mode now... with D3D 11. However, now it doesn't like D3D 9 either and freezes. Most of the time MPC then becomes locked, and sometimes you can play the video again, but requires me to usually hard reset (hold the power button). I can't keep doing that in testing since it won't do the computer any good continuously restarting.

So, same settings, I've now gone from D3D9 exclusive to D3D11 windowed. When it works it works beautifully, but ironically if I play around with the settings and it freezes, the same settings may not work the same again even if I reset madVR, clear the shader cache (I disabled it anyway but didn't help). I even tried a different install location of madVR.

So, not sure what's going on. I can't pinpoint it to any specific setting. It's damned annoying that I can't just close it off and reopen (hard reset required).

If it is insider build related, even though it was like it in the last build too, you have to keep in mind that RS2 is due in 4 months, so if it is compatibility related it needs to be quashed. Since on the same build it worked with the R9-280X and not with the RX 480 (and the new monitor), I think it's not related to that.

[wanezhiling]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...18#post1787718
@madshi, plz check.

[HillieSan]

Originally Posted by burfadel

I use Windows Insider 14971, Crimson 16.11.4, latest MPC-HC BE and LAVFilters.

I think you may have a similar issue to me just a lot less extreme. I do actually get the black screen when it switches to full screen mode now... with D3D 11. However, now it doesn't like D3D 9 either and freezes. Most of the time MPC then becomes locked, and sometimes you can play the video again, but requires me to usually hard reset (hold the power button). I can't keep doing that in testing since it won't do the computer any good continuously restarting.

So, same settings, I've now gone from D3D9 exclusive to D3D11 windowed. When it works it works beautifully, but ironically if I play around with the settings and it freezes, the same settings may not work the same again even if I reset madVR, clear the shader cache (I disabled it anyway but didn't help). I even tried a different install location of madVR.

So, not sure what's going on. I can't pinpoint it to any specific setting. It's damned annoying that I can't just close it off and reopen (hard reset required).

If it is insider build related, even though it was like it in the last build too, you have to keep in mind that RS2 is due in 4 months, so if it is compatibility related it needs to be quashed. Since on the same build it worked with the R9-280X and not with the RX 480 (and the new monitor), I think it's not related to that.

I have only DXD11 presentation and V-sync enabled. You can also enable exclusive full screen mode. I disabled all 'quality for perfomance' options (may not be necessary). I use DVXA copy-back or none in LAV Video. DXVA native was buggy.

I had instability problems after updating madVR, and I had to run 'install.bat' (in admin mode) once after every update of madVR.

[Budtz]

I cant find upscaling settings now. does it only show now if it is needed?

[tFWo]

Well, madVR is in danger of literally going MAD and developing a split personality.

On one hand we have things like the profile system that lets power users configure everything to their liking.

On the other there is the need to streamline/simplify options for normal users.

Every piece of software in the history of the universe has failed at balancing these two hands. Unfortunately I can see the same thing happening to madVR. Power users end up disappointed with the lack of options (compared to the earlier builds) and normal users never have enough knowledge to not be confused with the remaining options. It has all happened zillion times before.

Limiting the choices for downscaling after image doubling is a great example of this problem. You are taking away the choice from the power user AND you are making your own profile system less useful. If the end goal is completely removing the profile system, then I can understand this. But I don't recall you mentioning it.

On the other side I doubt that the normal user is less confused with this new option. You still have a downscale option in the upscaling/doubling section. Without a proper explanation (tooltip?) the normal user still has no idea what that thing does.

As others have already suggested a simple "downscale quality: use image downscaling settings instead" would fix this for the power user. For the normal user I am afraid that only a complete settings UI overhaul will make things less confusing.

P.S. sxbr should stay! It’s still the performance/quality ratio king for slower cards (haven’t tried new ngu low yet)

[StinDaWg]

Is there such a thing as a "normal" user in regards to madVR though? No one I know in real life has ever used or has a clue what madVR is.

I'm not sure why the new shift to catering towards "normal" users is for. madVR is only used by super nerdy videophiles. And super nerdy videophiles want to customize everything.

[flossy_cake]

Originally Posted by madshi

With video the situation is different. The position of the car is already defined by the recorded video.

Game physics usually decoupled from the rendering so the car moves the same amount as it does in 2d video. The scenario you describe is like the whole physics engine slowing down to match the render rate which is extremely rare to find a game like that.

Originally Posted by madshi

No, 35ms vs 42ms is not perfectly smooth at all. It might be smooth with a game but not with a video.

I can repeatably witness it smooth with my own eyes. I cannot deny my own senses otherwise I'd have to be radically sceptical about everything. Do you believe it when people witness smooth motion on the variable gsync framerate demos such as the windmill/pendulum demo or do you think they are all just stupid and just can't detect judder? Because that is one hell of a conspiracy if you believe it. Gsync is for people who are allergic to judder, it's the complete opposite of everything you are making it out to be. It's the solution, not the problem.

Originally Posted by madshi

And if you do prerender 3 frames in advance and present them in advance with G-SYNC, at which exact interval are they displayed on screen?

Maybe you could tell me because MadVR is producing 50fps gsync on my European video files in full screen mode.

My guess is that your code already implements an accurate timer of some sort or the display driver is taking care of it somehow.

Originally Posted by e-t172

otherwise it's going to jitter like crazy and the slightest delay in madVR presentation thread scheduling is going to result in a visible hiccup.

I find it offensive to even use jitter and gsync in the same sentence

Originally Posted by e-t172

This is a software timer that relies on a user-mode software thread to be woken up at precisely the right time.
Which is not a viable option in a non-realtime OS such as Windows.

Originally Posted by e-t172

The frame interval needs to be managed purely in hardware (i.e. the GPU, like in fixed VSync) to achieve high-quality playback. This is the only way to guarantee high precision of frame presentation times.

Apparently the Windows high precision timer uses a dedicated hardware clock called HPET.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_P...on_Event_Timer
You may need to enable it at the windows command line with the "bcdedit /set useplatformclock true" command.

[FreeFall]

Just another vote in favor of giving advanced users back control of the upscaling / downscaling and chroma settings used with image doubling.

Cheers.

[mueslibrown]

Originally Posted by tFWo

Well, madVR is in danger of literally going MAD and developing a split personality.

On one hand we have things like the profile system that lets power users configure everything to their liking.

On the other there is the need to streamline/simplify options for normal users.

Every piece of software in the history of the universe has failed at balancing these two hands. Unfortunately I can see the same thing happening to madVR. Power users end up disappointed with the lack of options (compared to the earlier builds) and normal users never have enough knowledge to not be confused with the remaining options. It has all happened zillion times before.

Limiting the choices for downscaling after image doubling is a great example of this problem. You are taking away the choice from the power user AND you are making your own profile system less useful. If the end goal is completely removing the profile system, then I can understand this. But I don't recall you mentioning it.

On the other side I doubt that the normal user is less confused with this new option. You still have a downscale option in the upscaling/doubling section. Without a proper explanation (tooltip?) the normal user still has no idea what that thing does.

As others have already suggested a simple "downscale quality: use image downscaling settings instead" would fix this for the power user. For the normal user I am afraid that only a complete settings UI overhaul will make things less confusing.

P.S. sxbr should stay! It’s still the performance/quality ratio king for slower cards (haven’t tried new ngu low yet)

Tend to agree (full disclosure I'm not a software developer nor a UI specialist) ... without knowing madshi's timeline for v1.0 release or what features/functionality comprise that event, I'd be inclined to continue catering to the power users after all they are going to provide the best critique of features and the most difficult to please (as most geeks are ...). The normal user and I include myself here will have to muddle through for now. At a later stage changes to the UI and providing a wizard or relevant presets could be layered on for the 'joe public' user - assuming madshi is going mainstream as thats where the actual money will be ... Just my uninformed view.

[aufkrawall]

Have to agree with twfo. I finely tuned everything with different profiles for every scaling factor, and now that kind of control is simply not possible anymore.
If we have to make a clean cut, then I'd vote for making the UI even simpler by deleting lots more of it. But then on the other hand, we need complete commandline/script control for advanced users, still offering every possible configuration. Otherwise, imho we end up with something just crippled.

I haven't tested yet if new NGU low is a good replacement for s-xbr. Dunno if low + low quadrupling is even possible atm. Can test at home later.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Originally Posted by StinDaWg

I'm not sure why the new shift to catering towards "normal" users is for. madVR is only used by super nerdy videophiles. And super nerdy videophiles want to customize everything.

Because even super nerdy videophiles can shoot themselves in the foot, as evidenced by (among other things) people either forgetting to disable NGU chroma doubling or disabling it but using an expensive algorithm for image upscaling.

I'm not saying the new system is perfect (I haven't played with it yet), but I can understand the desire for clarity and reducing the amount of useless combinations.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by madshi

"chroma quality: automatic" chooses Bicubic60 AR for doubling chroma, except when using NNEDI3-128/256 or NGU-VeryHigh. In that case NNEDI3-16 respectively NGU-Med is used instead.

Well, I'd like to use Jinc AR for chroma if I have chroma NGU disabled and prefer to beef up luma NGU.....Not possible anymore either? But you said that NGU-low is just as fast as Jinc so I'll have a go at all this ASAP

[GCRaistlin]

I think that GUI should suggest good decisions in some way but definitely not prevent an user to make his/her own ones, even if they seem to be incorrect.