madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Also, though I know you're not taking feature requests... could you please add chapter marks on the exclusive mode progress bar? You already seem to have the code to get them since the tray icon shows them, so it shouldn't take much time to add them onto the progress bar as well?

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Madshi, do you have any intention of allowing chapter markers on the seekbar?

Originally Posted by madshi

Asked before. Not planned for the near future.

Now one year later.. might be worth a shot.

[omarank]

Originally Posted by madshi

I'm sorry, but I don't really have the time to test "perhaps" bugs. If you can make a step-by-step guide to reproducing a specific problem, ideally with a small video sample to help, then I'd be happy to look into this.

I think I didn't describe it clearly. I will make one last attempt:

Step 1: Create a profile group for smooth motion. In the profile auto select rules, paste this script

if (deintFps > 24.5) and (deintFps < 25.5) "Off"
else "On"


Step 2: Duplicate profile 1. So now you have profile 1 and profile 2. Rename profile 1 as "On" and profile 2 as "Off"

Step 3: In the "On" profile's smooth motion settings page, tick "enable smooth motion frame rate conversion" and check the option "only if there would be motion judder without it..."

Step 4: In the "Off" profile's smooth motion settings page, untick "enable smooth motion frame rate conversion"

Step 4: Set your display to 60Hz and play any progressive video with 29.97 fps or 30 fps or 60 fps, you will see smooth motion getting enabled (though it should not as per the settings).

[turbojet]

omarank: it should be using on profile, the only time it should be off is when fps = 24.51- 25.49 fps. A 25 fps video switches to off profile. However 29.97 and 59.94 fps videos at 60hz is disabled for me in this situation.

Soukyou: I agree there should be a note in the smooth motion page or something that recommends using overlay or fse instead of window mode. It probably would have negated most of the criticism when SM first came out and turn the current critics. I thought it was strange that it's always worked great on an old 1024x768 crt but some noticeable blending on a 1680x1050 lcd, window mode was why.

madshi: Did you confirm error diffusion + film mode = black screen while paused?

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Werewolfy

The Philips 32PFL4508 can be a good choice if chroma is not subsampled. It has an IPS Panel so contrast is about 1000:1 if it matters.

FWIW LG TV have also 4:4:4 support and at every refresh rates it seems. For example : LG 32LA620V. IPS Panel too.

If you can still find one, the SONY KDL-32HX755 does support 4:4:4 at every refresh rates and have 3D. VA Panel.

Samsung TV don't support 4:4:4 except in 60hz mode.

Here are all your options

Thanks! Some more options, it seems. From the reviews it seems to me that Samsung has often problems with clouding, not sure if that limits the use as a PC monitor. Found less complaints about that in the Philips reviews. What is the latest judgement about IPS vs. VA? Will look at the LG and Sony models...

Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Argh! This really deserves a note somewhere. My rendering times are around 40ms in windowed mode, so all this time I have been wasting my GPU processing power for smooth motion that didn't work?

Actually, what I said might not be always true. Just tested it again on my PC, and now smooth motion FRC works fluidly here, even with rendering times of near 40ms. So I'm not sure what to say, anymore. I did have a situation where I had to lower rendering times below the VSync time (16ms) to make smooth motion FRC play smoothly. Maybe it depends on the OS and GPU? I don't really know...

Originally Posted by Shiandow

I was able to reproduce the same problem on an Nvidia GTX 560ti; enabling Nnedi3 chroma upscaling and deinterlacing at the same time makes the image yellow instead of gray.

Thanks. So it only occurs with deint + Nnedi3 chroma upscaling at the same time, correct? Is that video mode deint or forced film mode?

Originally Posted by omarank

I think I didn't describe it clearly. I will make one last attempt:

Step 1: Create a profile group for smooth motion. In the profile auto select rules, paste this script

if (deintFps > 24.5) and (deintFps < 25.5) "Off"
else "On"

Step 2: Duplicate profile 1. So now you have profile 1 and profile 2. Rename profile 1 as "On" and profile 2 as "Off"

Step 3: In the "On" profile's smooth motion settings page, tick "enable smooth motion frame rate conversion" and check the option "only if there would be motion judder without it..."

Step 4: In the "Off" profile's smooth motion settings page, untick "enable smooth motion frame rate conversion"

Step 4: Set your display to 60Hz and play any progressive video with 29.97 fps or 30 fps or 60 fps, you will see smooth motion getting enabled (though it should not as per the settings).

Originally Posted by turbojet

60 fps video at 60hz is disabled for me in this situation.

Same here as turbojet. Playing a 60fps file with your profile setup activates the "On" profile, but Smooth Motion FRC according to the debug OSD is turned off.

Does Smooth Motion FRC disable on your PC if you remove the profiles and just switch it to "only if there would be judder..."?

Originally Posted by turbojet

madshi: Did you confirm error diffusion + film mode = black screen while paused?

Doesn't happen on my PC.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by madshi

Catmull-Rom AR image downscaling with linear light

So this is the absolute best for downscaling NNEDI?

Originally Posted by madshi

Well, it seems to have something to do with what PotP does. You could try the various PotP settings to see if any of those fixes the problem.

I learned the hard way a few years ago with VST plugins in ffdshow audio that programming boils down to doing things in the right order, ask for something to be done too early or too late and there will be no dice

Letting mVR roll refresh rates when playback starts works like a treat so I've set PotP to instantly go FS when playback starts and things are actually better than ever as I don't even need to go FS manually and FSE would especially not appear to fail either. It even leaves time for my TV to resync while PotP works on starting playback, allowing Reclock to kick in at that....."There's no such thing as problems, Mr. Green, only situations."

To be perfectly clear when it failed it would never work again in the current session, mVR assumed that FSE would never work and would never try it again.

Originally Posted by madshi

Thanks! Some more options, it seems. From the reviews it seems to me that Samsung has often problems with clouding, not sure if that limits the use as a PC monitor. Found less complaints about that in the Philips reviews. What is the latest judgement about IPS vs. VA? Will look at the LG and Sony models...

FWIR clouding become a problem starting at 40" and IME all 46/50" suffer more or less from it(sometimes in outrageous proportions), but it'll take some seriously bad luck to get strong clouding <40" IME.

You see a lot of ppl complaining about clouding on Sammies because they sell far more than all the others, as simple as that IMHO and the manufacturing processes have been continuously improving so what was true a few years back simply isn't anymore.

Of course the less contrasty the panel the less clouding will be a problem and on a 600:1 IPS clouding will hardly ever be a problem.

I couldn't find translations on their english speaking digitalversus.com sister website but here are a few interviews with TV makers RMA departments regarding clouding that might -or might not- make sense after being automatically translated: LG / Sharp / Panasonic / Philips

Long story short, the lower the CR the less clouding will be a problem and one of the major reason was that the pressure put on the panels wasn't homogenous and LCD looks nasty if you pinch it too hard...so the newer the TV the less prone to suffer from clouding as the manufacturing processes have improved. It should also be noted that these are assembled by modern slaves in poor countries so YMMV of course.

Originally Posted by madshi

You mean I should buy *two* new display? Sorry, too expensive, and I don't have the space. The Philips 32PFL4508 is my current favorite. It supports 3D at least, and the manual suggests a PC mode, although I'm not 100% sure if it will support 4:4:4. But it might be worth a try.

My point is that this monitor is unmatched for office work IMHO: http://www.amazon.de/dp/B00AQBWNXA

Their flicker-free backlight is a God send and you'll feel far less tired, especially as you would appear to currently use a PWM monitor....the difference will more than likely impress you. Amazon provide a TOTL money-back warranty anyway.

Sammy's BFI almost feels as comfy but it's 4:2:2 only so computer fonts look pretty funky, OTOH LCD without BFI looks eye scorching to me....BenQ are taking the market by storm with their flicker-free 72/75Hz capable monitors IMO, EIZO must be feeling the winds of change.

BTW, I briefly tried this one that was a real POS: http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-tele...ml#full-review

And quite frankly, I would never buy a TV that comes with wifi.....call me old school if you like but this proves me right: LG Smart TV spying, owner claims his USB filenames posted on LG servers

You're working on the industry leading VR, the last thing you want is script kiddies in a white van standing in front of your porch getting into your files

Getting a 3D TV with 4:4:4 at all refresh rates and no wifi will be next to impossible to find IMO.

What would make the most sense to me would be to use a GW2760HM on your desk and hang whatever 3D capable 32/40" TV on the wall for tests purposes, so you could use them simultaneously in dual screen and instantly test IRL without leaving your development environment

PS: hah, that nails it hard: Samsung Smart TV a spy in the living room as webcam hack revealed

[Andrey /MAG/]

madshi

Please re-read the v0.87.4 announcement post carefully

You have to downgrade to NVidia 327.23 drivers (or older) to make the OpenCL features work with NVidia

Thank you. I see.

[James Freeman]

For what its worth,

My current monitor is Asus VN279QLB.
Its the equivalent to the Benq GW2760HM (same AMVA+ panel).
Asus has more controllable overdrive levels than Benq, its very important to remove any inverse ghosting (not needed at slow 24fps = 41.7ms).
It also a a little better gamut (more accurate) compared to the GW2760HM, though does not cover 100% sRGB (like most WLED monitors).
It's also PWM free.
Contrast Ratio I have measured with my i1 Display Pro is around 2700:1 (after calibration).
Gamma is almost perfect 2.20 (before calibration).
Service/Factory Menu offers more control over the RGB gains for 6500K, 7500K, 9300K, sRGB preset.

After calibration with the i1, everything is tip-top.

The most important:
It can be overdriven to 50-75Hz no frame doubling/skipping.
No 24Hz... but 72Hz is three times more so it must be better.

The bad side:
Off center contrast shift (any VA panel including this one), so you have to sit straight ahead.

I still have my Dell U2410 which is IPS with 100% sRGB coverage, but its locked at 60Hz.

[Shiandow]

Originally Posted by madshi

Thanks. So it only occurs with deint + Nnedi3 chroma upscaling at the same time, correct? Is that video mode deint or forced film mode?

It's only during video mode deinterlace. If I force film mode it goes away, if I then force video mode it's back again. So it only seems to occur when deinterlacing in video mode while using Nnedi3 chroma upscaling.

[ajp2k11]

Is NNEDI too demanding for my Radeon 6650M?

It plays most material fine with Jinc3/AR on both chroma and luma but with NNEDI and all other set to bilinear it's like watching a slideshow even with 16 neurons...

[Werewolfy]

Originally Posted by madshi

Thanks! Some more options, it seems. From the reviews it seems to me that Samsung has often problems with clouding, not sure if that limits the use as a PC monitor. Found less complaints about that in the Philips reviews. What is the latest judgement about IPS vs. VA? Will look at the LG and Sony models...

Clouding is an issue with all brands but I agree with what's just said above, on a 32'' TV screen it's usually not an issue. You can also have banding or DSE that is very annoying so I recommend you to pick a store where you can return your TV screen. Again, it's usually not an issue with small TV screen but bad surprises happen. Honestly, I don't really know if one brand is better than another when we talk about uniformity.

IPS panels have poor contrast, max : 1000:1 so the picture is washed out and black level is very poor, it's more like grey. But viewing angles are generally wide.
VA have better contrast, between 2000:1 and 5000:1 and better motion resolution but viewing angles are generally narrow (a lot wider than TN panels though).

So I would say if you care about good black and color reproduction, you should choose a VA Panel (all Samsung TV and almost all Sony TV but the only model that can interest you is the Sony KDL-32HX750 if you can still find one where you live) but if you don't care about that or care more about viewing angles, choose an IPS panel (LG, Philips except high end models).

[iSunrise]

Originally Posted by madshi

I've already ripped out the NVidia GPU in my development PC again. You know, it totally refuses to even acknowledge the precense of my LCD monitor, when connecting via DVI, while my Intel and AMD GPUs have no problems with that. FWIW, the NVidia does like my projector, when using DVI. I have to use VGA connection to get an image with the NVidia 650 on my LCD monitor.

That´s very strange, I cannot think of one setup where I ever encountered this and I have built like a couple hundred PCs with Nvidia cards and various LCD panels, especially over DVI, which has never failed me. If your LCD explicitly needs a DVI-I or analogue connection, maybe that´s where something weird is happening.

Originally Posted by madshi

I can put the NVidia GPU back in, but doing so costs time and effort. So I'd need a 100% sure way to reproduce any specific problem.

It´s reproducible every time, so it´s a 100% sure way. I can reproduce it every time if I do a complete system restart with the settings NNEDI3 chroma upscaling and deinterlacing.

Just follow my strict instructions step by step in my last post.

Originally Posted by madshi

Thanks. So it only occurs with deint + Nnedi3 chroma upscaling at the same time, correct? Is that video mode deint or forced film mode?

It seems to happen only in film mode. Like I already posted in my step by step guide, it will trigger every time if you don´t force anything, that´s why I wrote "don´t check anything else". I was about as strict as I could be to reproduce the problem for you.

This bug was a pain to figure out.

[Xaurus]

madshi, just want to say thank you for this new version. I was witnessing my GTX 660 kneeling VERY quickly with these new features, wow.

I ended up on 16 neurons with nnedi3 error defusion, using Jinc 3 for luma and chroma. Great stuff although it kills the GPU.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by leeperry

So this is the absolute best for downscaling NNEDI?

"The absolute best"? You're violating the forum rules...

Originally Posted by leeperry

Getting a 3D TV with 4:4:4 at all refresh rates and no wifi will be next to impossible to find IMO.

The LG 32LA6136 seems to fit that bill. Haven't decided yet, though.

Originally Posted by Werewolfy

So I would say if you care about good black and color reproduction, you should choose a VA Panel (all Samsung TV and almost all Sony TV but the only model that can interest you is the Sony KDL-32HX750 if you can still find one where you live) but if you don't care about that or care more about viewing angles, choose an IPS panel (LG, Philips except high end models).

Ok, thx.

Originally Posted by ajp2k11

Is NNEDI too demanding for my Radeon 6650M?

It plays most material fine with Jinc3/AR on both chroma and luma but with NNEDI and all other set to bilinear it's like watching a slideshow even with 16 neurons...

I don't know. Try with 24fps SD content and 16 neurons. If that doesn't work, there's probably no hope.

Originally Posted by Shiandow

It's only during video mode deinterlace. If I force film mode it goes away, if I then force video mode it's back again. So it only seems to occur when deinterlacing in video mode while using Nnedi3 chroma upscaling.

Originally Posted by iSunrise

It´s reproducible every time, so it´s a 100% sure way. I can reproduce it every time if I do a complete system restart with the settings NNEDI3 chroma upscaling and deinterlacing.

Just follow my strict instructions step by step in my last post.

It seems to happen only in film mode. Like I already posted in my step by step guide, it will trigger every time if you don´t force anything, that´s why I wrote "don´t check anything else". I was about as strict as I could be to reproduce the problem for you.

Ok, it seems I can reproduce this problem in video mode on my 9400 mainboard. Shouldn't be too hard to fix.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by madshi

Thanks! Some more options, it seems. From the reviews it seems to me that Samsung has often problems with clouding, not sure if that limits the use as a PC monitor. Found less complaints about that in the Philips reviews. What is the latest judgement about IPS vs. VA? Will look at the LG and Sony models...

clouding is luck it's like dead pixel.

and philips doesn't build any panel, so you get a sony, samsung, lg, sharp or something else and i'm pretty sure clounding comes when the panel is created and some people say is comes from bad transporting.

[iSunrise]

Originally Posted by madshi

Ok, it seems I can reproduce this problem in video mode on my 9400 mainboard. Shouldn't be too hard to fix.

Finally. I´m curious, why doesn´t this happen on an AMD card?

Originally Posted by huhn

and philips doesn't build any panel, so you get a sony, samsung, lg, sharp or something else and i'm pretty sure clounding comes when the panel is created and some people say is comes from bad transporting.

Philips is pure crap IMHO. It says something about their quality control if they sometimes use very cheap china/korea panels in their sets and the customer never knows. It´s like playing a card game. I would advise strongly against it.

IMHO Samsung is at the very top along with Sony (maybe even better). LG may be hit and miss, but their quality control on the Apple products is also very bad. Compared to Samsung, it´s like a night and day difference.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by iSunrise

Finally. I´m curious, why doesn´t this happen on an AMD card?

With NVidia's OpenCL implemention the channel order depends on the bitdepth. With 8bit the channel order is different than with 16bit. So I have to change things around depending on which bitdepth the OpenCL input has. I don't know if that is the cause of the problem, but it's likely. No such problems with Intel/AMD. There the channel order is always the same.

[iSunrise]

Originally Posted by madshi

With NVidia's OpenCL implemention the channel order depends on the bitdepth. With 8bit the channel order is different than with 16bit. So I have to change things around depending on which bitdepth the OpenCL input has. I don't know if that is the cause of the problem, but it's likely. No such problems with Intel/AMD. There the channel order is always the same.

I kinda feared (like I stated in my very first post about this) that this is another OpenCL "weirdness" on Nvidia. Changing the channel order depending on the output bitdepth sounds like a really good way to make things very difficult for a programmer, because he actually has to do the thinking (or rather, implement different behaviours for different bitdepths) that normally the OpenCL implementation should do for him. Thanks for the input.

Btw, still waiting for NV´s answer to the reproduced problem by Blaire with the drivers >327.23, who has told me that he expects an answer from them tonight or Monday. One thing is for certain, though, they seem to have changed quite a lot since 327.23, because the size of both of their nvopencl.dlls (packaged for system32 and SysWOW64) went up by 50%!

PS: I´m going to try to reproduce the scripting bug I also mentioned a couple of pages ago, but I´m not very hopeful, since I did so many things at once when testing, that I am not sure where madVR suddenly decided not to change profiles again, whatever files I fed it after a certain breaking point. There must be a check somewhere, that ultimatey executes the profile change that didn´t seem to work anymore. It was probably not even related to my first script itself.

[trip_let]

Originally Posted by vivan

I have i5-2410M + 540M. It works fine (I have to force mpc-hc to use nVidia GPU by renaming it), however 540M barely can hadle luma doubling on SD 24 fps video with 16 neurouns.
I'm on some ancient drivers (310), though.

Thanks for that.

Oddly enough, when I try some ancient drivers (306) and force Nvidia, all I get is a black screen. Even weirder, EVR's broken too and crashes out when I try to play anything using Nvidia on that old driver. Uh, this stuff used to work with old drivers so I have no idea what's going on. I think I'll blame... uh, Windows 8.1? (so I don't have to blame myself, of course :P) I'll look into it more when I have time.

Oh yeah, I did also try clean installations and some other driver versions, but no luck yet.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by madshi

The LG 32LA6136 seems to fit that bill.

That's a bunch of money for a <1K:1 CR IPS panel, OTOH viewing angles are wide and LG TV's usually come with a very impressive ISF certified colorimetry menu

[omarank]

Originally Posted by madshi

Same here as turbojet. Playing a 60fps file with your profile setup activates the "On" profile, but Smooth Motion FRC according to the debug OSD is turned off.

Does Smooth Motion FRC disable on your PC if you remove the profiles and just switch it to "only if there would be judder..."?

Ok, I have removed the profile and switched to "only if there would be judder..." Now SM gets enabled for 29.97 fps interlaced videos (video mode) and 30 fps progressive videos (from Kodak digicam). It remains disabled however for 29.97 fps progressive videos. IIRC, SM switching was working fine in v0.86.11.

@Madshi, Turbojet: Can you check for 29.97 fps interlaced videos?