Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Capturing and Editing Video > Avisynth Usage

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 30th November 2021, 17:50   #661  |  Link
Dogway
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,550
Is there a special scene or frame you have issues with? I tested with the Carrie call (I use tr 1 and 2 and thSAD=400 for the 2nd call) and found it good enough.
Also keep in mind this is a BW film so plane=0 and chroma=false.

The film shows "fizz" grain. It's in between the Carrie example and something stronger like 300. I found that a blksize of 32 is good to avoid catching these kind of big grains, along refinemotion this is a good approach. Filters like SPresso or STTWM are not suited here because they only filter minimal change noise, these are more for DVDs or faint grain.
My general approach with strong grain is a rather strong prefilter (with LFR), and a rather not so strong filter without LFR.

Personally for my encodes I don't like the clean look because they either look psychovisually blurry or sometimes it shows the "screen" effect, like grain stuck over a glass, so I apply some artificial grain after denoising.
__________________
[i7-4790K@Stock::GTX 1070] AviSynth+ filters and mods on GitHub

Last edited by Dogway; 30th November 2021 at 17:59.
Dogway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2021, 21:13   #662  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogway View Post
Is there a special scene or frame you have issues with? I tested with the Carrie call (I use tr 1 and 2 and thSAD=400 for the 2nd call) and found it good enough.
Also keep in mind this is a BW film so plane=0 and chroma=false.
The issue is the resulting bitrate, too high for a BW movie.

The best results are from SPresso+STPresso+SMDegrain but the speed is in the order of 0.5 fpsL too slow. I am eager to see your porting of STPresso if it could achieve better speeds and the same quality.

Plus, I have found that, strangely, if you apply plane=0 and chroma=false, you obtain a lower noise cleanup.
__________________
@turment on Telegram
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2021, 09:29   #663  |  Link
Boulder
Pig on the wing
 
Boulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 5,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by tormento View Post
The issue is the resulting bitrate, too high for a BW movie.
BW movies are often very grainy. Also, chroma information is a much smaller portion of data than luma.
__________________
And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
I'll see you on the dark side of the Moon...
Boulder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2021, 09:33   #664  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boulder View Post
BW movies are often very grainy.
Results vary by the "type" of grain, i.e. silver particle size, distribution, etc. Some BW movies are really easy to compress and you can achieve really high compression ratio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boulder View Post
Also, chroma information is a much smaller portion of data than luma.
The strange thing is that using plane=0 and chroma=false, lowers the noise reduction, even using Greyscale() to cleanup chroma completely. That's a thing I will never understand.
__________________
@turment on Telegram
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2021, 11:25   #665  |  Link
Dogway
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,550
The chroma plane which is plain grey will be considered for the SAD calculation so it lowers the overall SAD value, moreover when I use a scaleCSAD of 1 for HD sources. Chroma planes are always greyish so the difference is not much but it might be noticeable. You have to counteract this with a higher thSAD.
__________________
[i7-4790K@Stock::GTX 1070] AviSynth+ filters and mods on GitHub
Dogway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 17:46   #666  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,935
@dogway

Do you see anything wrong with

SMDegrain (tr=6,PreFilter=4,thSAD=900,contrasharp=false,refinemotion=true, plane=0, chroma=false, Globals=2)
SMDegrain (tr=6, thSAD=900,contrasharp=false,refinemotion=true, plane=0, chroma=false, Globals=1)


instead of using higher tr and thSAD?

Which choice is, quality wise, better?
__________________
@turment on Telegram
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 18:56   #667  |  Link
Dogway
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,550
Ah, I noticed some issues, well Globals is something I haven't touched in a long time.
I recommend you for the time being to not use Globals. Other than that I see the output is very clean, I'm not accustomed to using such high values, maybe you can add some LFR recovery. Maybe the first pass can use blksize of 32 to speed up processing, but this depends on what details are being wiped or not, it depend on grain amount.

Using two passes is fine, it indirectly multiplies the effect for a fraction of the performance. (-6) -6 0 6 (6) = 24 frames for the current frame output.
__________________
[i7-4790K@Stock::GTX 1070] AviSynth+ filters and mods on GitHub
Dogway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:32   #668  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogway View Post
Ah, I noticed some issues, well Globals is something I haven't touched in a long time.
Please I think that the possibility to calculate vectors only once is useful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogway View Post
I recommend you for the time being to not use Globals.
So should I use 2 lines of SMDegrain without passing vectors?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogway View Post
Other than that I see the output is very clean
I just can see some issues right before scene change, where details get somehow lost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogway View Post
I'm not accustomed to using such high values, maybe you can add some LFR recovery.
Perhaps you are not fond of old movies, where grain is not details but simply useless noise. I keep on battling with that.

Do you suggest me to put LFR in the first line, in the second or both?

12 angry men, which I sent you a clip of, is really a bloody mess. With x264 crf 20, I am sweating to keep bitrate unter 4000kb/s and for a BW movie it is really a lot.
__________________
@turment on Telegram

Last edited by tormento; Yesterday at 20:47.
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
avs+, dogway, filters, hbd, packs

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.