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Old 6th February 2006, 16:31   #41  |  Link
Wilbert
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Can I add Japanese translations to new wiki pages?
Sure, but i think it is better that you wait for a while. We just started and things might change in the beginning. I will contact you in time.
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Old 6th February 2006, 16:44   #42  |  Link
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OK. I have already translated about half of filters' documentations to Japanese. I'll put them to new wiki.
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Old 6th February 2006, 19:26   #43  |  Link
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foxyshadis asked about making the URL lookups case insensitive. Having Avisource & AviSource resolve to the same page sounded good. But it turns out to be trickier to implement than it sounds. This post summarizes the current situation.

What we really need is to pick a naming convention. For example, here's Wikipedia's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...bsequent_words
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...italization%29
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Old 7th February 2006, 15:52   #44  |  Link
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On the preliminary classification (link in my signature)... I've received some very helpful PM's -- thank you to those concerned. A couple of things I want to make clear:

-- You are more than welcome to make changes, corrections.
-- This isn't meant to be a final page. The aim is to get sensible categories and subcategories, so that we can create appropriate pages (e.g. a page on restoration filters, or a page on deblockers).

And a couple of questions...
-- Thoughts on how we should subclassify denoisers? Stick with the old Spatial/Temporal/Spatiotemporal scheme, or something else? [I have no strong feelings on this issue.]
-- (Esp. to Wilbert) how NPOV are we trying to keep things? For example, this:http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...bob#post759778 would IMO be extremely helpful to a new user.
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Old 7th February 2006, 17:32   #45  |  Link
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I don't have a problem with quick-n-easy lists of "best" filters. Just use careful wording like Wikipedia does.

fact: The YUY2 colorspace uses 16 bytes per pixel.
opinion: Many people feel MvBob is the best filter for pure interlaced material. fact: It's certainly one of the slowest.

We could even have a dedicated page called "Current recommendations" or similar. Then if parts are debatable, use its talk-page.
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Old 7th February 2006, 18:11   #46  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mg262
Thoughts on how we should subclassify denoisers? Stick with the old Spatial/Temporal/Spatiotemporal scheme, or something else?
Spatial, Temporal, TempoSpatial and perhaps "Special" for FFT or DCT based stuff!?

Btw, I followed ya suggestion and added a dozen filters + edited some stuff... ^^


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Old 7th February 2006, 18:18   #47  |  Link
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I don't have a problem with quick-n-easy lists of "best" filters. Just use careful wording like Wikipedia does.

fact: The YUY2 colorspace uses 16 bytes per pixel.
opinion: Many people feel MvBob is the best filter for pure interlaced material. fact: It's certainly one of the slowest.

We could even have a dedicated page called "Current recommendations" or similar. Then if parts are debatable, use its talk-page.
I don't like that. It's very subjective and difficult to keep up to date. Not to mention that it depends on the source sometimes (think about denoisers). Imo, it's not up to us to rank the filters. Of course you can list advantages, disadvantages and bugs. Then people can make up their own mind.
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Old 7th February 2006, 19:16   #48  |  Link
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Ok, no rankings. We can definitely put up objective data, though. Things like speed, compressability gain/loss (for denoisers/sharpeners), features. On a similar note, feel free to upload lots of samples: "torture test" clips, filter comparisons, whatever. I bargained for a lot more space & bandwidth after the site went down in Dec, may as well use it
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Old 7th February 2006, 19:49   #49  |  Link
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Oooh, samples. Definitely put Didée's B5 torture test on there. It'd be very interesting to have screenshots of what denoisers do to a few "standard" mildly noisy and very noisy clips, later on.

As for names, I guess the only way is hack the code to insert a lot of strtolower()s, cross your fingers, and hope for the best, so.... not exactly a good plan. I guess that since every filter already has a known case (Pascal case being the most common by far), we should use that. Maybe even force Pascal case for all-lower-case ones. The old wiki generally Pascal-cased almost everything except a few wiki-style links, and I kind of like that, but with spaces so things look more like "proper" titles. But that's just my opinion.

ie, "Variable Frame Rate Video" instead of "VariableFrameRateVideo" or "Variable frame rate video". (Though I'm also going to link "VFR" to that one... )
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Old 7th February 2006, 20:20   #50  |  Link
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Grrr... lost my reply. Briefly,

@Soulhunter: thank you for the suggestions, the changes and for pointing out the issue about naming conventions!

@Wilbert: should I include internal filters on the list?

@all: I'm worried that a list like this (however presented)...

Area
BlendBob
DGBob
FieldDeinterlace
GreedyHMA
InterpolationBob
KernelDeint
LeakKernelDeint
MVBob
SmoothDeinterlace
TDeint
TomsMoComp
(+ more when finished)

... will overwhelm a new user. Any thoughts on ways to alleviate this?

Also, I can think of three naming conventions for "restoration filter" subcategories:

1. Anti-aliasing, Rainbow and Dot crawl removal, Chroma correction, Deblocking, Deinterlacing, etc
2. Anti-aliasers, Rainbow and Dot crawl removers, Chroma correcters, Deblockers, Deinterlacers, etc
3. Aliasing, Rainbows & Dot crawl, Chroma errors, Blocks, interlacing

3. seems inappropriate (to me) but I have no preference between 1. and 2. ... or perhaps someone can think of something better?
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Last edited by mg262; 7th February 2006 at 20:27.
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Old 7th February 2006, 20:29   #51  |  Link
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Even if we were able to hack the entire product, using some kind of StrLower would just cause problems with internationalization. Improving the Avisynth doc translation experience is a major goal, so I'm not going to compromise there. Also, as the developers mentioned in that email thread, you lose the ability to have a canonical case, i.e. you can't decide how the title should be displayed to the user.

My opinions (open to debate):
  • Avisynth keywords (anything that must be typed as a single word in the script language) that have >1 English word use CamelCase. Acronyms within the name stay uppercase. examples: GetLeftChannel; ShowSMPTE; DirectShowSource (not DirectshowSource -- "Directshow" is not an English word); Subtitle (not SubTitle)
  • Everything else split into normal sentences using Wikipedia conventions. examples: "Avisynth manual" (no "AviSynth" ); "SmoothDeinterlace functions" (SmoothDeinterlace is a keyword); "Filters by Didee" (capitalize proper names)
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Old 7th February 2006, 20:53   #52  |  Link
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@mg262

We have to have a comprehensive list somewhere. If some pages become too newb-unfriendly, we can create other pages (or perhaps just sections) with "most common choices."
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Old 7th February 2006, 21:14   #53  |  Link
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We have to have a comprehensive list somewhere.
Definitely. (Anyway, I'm not masochistic enough to collate all these lists and then throw them away .) I was envisaging something like this:

Rainbow and dot crawl removal
1. Definition of rainbow/dot crawl + pictures
2. Brief explanation of causes
3. Descriptive text
4. Comprehensive list (perhaps annotated)

(2. is there because it allows an intelligent choice of filter ordering.)

3. is the vaguest of these sections, but it could contain information about e.g. the most popular filters or about filters that are well-suited to beginners (stable, few parameters/default parameters work well, reasonably effective on disparate sources). I wanted an idea of what you all think is appropriate/suitable in a section like this.

The above schema is just one possibility... please do suggest improvements or better schemata.
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Old 7th February 2006, 21:34   #54  |  Link
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I forgot to mention which names I liked -- was going to say #2, since I thought these would be relatively sparse pages (mostly just links to other pages). But now that I see you propose to illustrate the problem in detail, I like #1 better.

Your section layout looks great.
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Old 7th February 2006, 22:19   #55  |  Link
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@Wilbert: should I include internal filters on the list?
No. Internal filters should be more bug-free than external filters, so there has to be a distinction between the two.

Quote:
Also, I can think of three naming conventions for "restoration filter" subcategories:

1. Anti-aliasing, Rainbow and Dot crawl removal, Chroma correction, Deblocking, Deinterlacing, etc
Sounds good.

Quote:
-- Thoughts on how we should subclassify denoisers? Stick with the old Spatial/Temporal/Spatiotemporal scheme, or something else?
Sounds good to me. Frankly, i have no idea about possible other classificatons

Quote:
I was envisaging something like this:

Rainbow and dot crawl removal
1. Definition of rainbow/dot crawl + pictures
2. Brief explanation of causes
3. Descriptive text
4. Comprehensive list (perhaps annotated)
I agree that all this info should be on avisynth.org somewhere, but my only concern it is too much on a single page. Perhaps the pictures + explanation of causes should be on a separate page? I don't know ...
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Old 7th February 2006, 22:56   #56  |  Link
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I was thinking of keeping 1. and 2. pretty compact, and using small pictures (maybe the same height as 8 lines of text). Pictures would be cropped to pick out the relevant effect, not resized. We could include links to pages with more detailed text or larger pictures. Real life is a bit busy at present, but when it calms down let me try and mock up a page? If you find it too crowded, we can try something else.

Incidentally, may I use text from the analog capture guide?
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Old 7th February 2006, 22:57   #57  |  Link
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I think a well-designed "rainbow & dot-crawl removal" page -- even if it includes a long list at the end -- will still be much friendly than, say, today's FAQ. With sections & subpages there's really no problem with long articles, so long as the most important information (i.e. what the majority of people who hit the page) is near the top.
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Old 7th February 2006, 23:12   #58  |  Link
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  • If wanted, we could add quick links to all the filters at the top of the page quite compactly.
  • The full set of filters may be too cumbersome to fit on a single page, but we could have a compact index page for each large category -- e.g. list all Restoration filters.

See http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/User:Clouded for examples of both of these -- I don't actually like the look of these examples, but they convey the idea.
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Old 10th March 2006, 16:42   #59  |  Link
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@Richard,

I want to add some math to one of the pages:

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/in...p?title=Levels

<math>x^2</math>

should work, but doesn't. Could you give some help?
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Old 10th March 2006, 17:32   #60  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Wilbert
@Richard,

I want to add some math to one of the pages:

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/in...p?title=Levels

<math>x^2</math>

should work, but doesn't. Could you give some help?
did you install all that LaTex-stuff?

EDIT: Have a look here Troubleshooting_math_errors

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