APNG vs. Animated WEBP

jay123210599 · 4th October 2024, 21:53

Which has the higher quality? Which would be a better alternative to gifs, apngs or lossless animated webps?

Z2697 · 5th October 2024, 17:05

Lossless is lossless, dude. Quality is equal.
HOWEVER somewhat "quality related" thing is that WebP Lossless only supports ARGB (8-8-8-8) this single one pixel format.

Compression ratio wise WebP Lossless is typically better than PNG. BUT an actual video codec with at least P frames would do far better. Not necessarily HEIF, an animated HEIF is just a mp4 with video stream and an image-item for thumbnail (and perhaps optionally some other stuff). A lot of "GIF" sharing platforms and social medias have been converting them to video clips long before HEIF was introduced. Although these platforms are probably not using lossless compression like you intended but many video codecs are capable.

Video formats also has the benefit of directly taking YUV format frames from your videos. (based on your other threads, you are converting videos right?)
You can even just cut some GOP out and call it a day. That's bit-exact, perfectly lossless, "more lossless" than your proposal (APNG or WebP ,because of the YUV to RGB conversion)

Here's some of my rant about iamge formats:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...91#post2006891

My another rant, if you forgive me:
This is just weird, dude. Why are you so seriously considering to convert your videos into "animated images"? What's the use case???

jay123210599 · 6th October 2024, 06:17

I just trying to find a better alternative to gifs. How about these? Which image format out of the two will handle the colors of these better?

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Z2697 · 6th October 2024, 08:25

NONE.
They don't use YUV.
But less strictly speaking, 8bit RGB should be enough. Both format are capable.

Should you do that IMO? Absolutely not.
But are they much better than GIF? Surely.

GeoffreyA · 6th October 2024, 16:06

JPEG XL is worth a look. It can also recompress GIF (and JPEG) losslesly, so one gains a bit from the improved entropy coding.

https://github.com/libjxl/libjxl

jay123210599 · 7th October 2024, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z2697

NONE.
They don't use YUV.
But less strictly speaking, 8bit RGB should be enough. Both format are capable.

Should you do that IMO? Absolutely not.
But are they much better than GIF? Surely.

Why noy use them if they're better?

jay123210599 · 7th October 2024, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffreyA

JPEG XL is worth a look. It can also recompress GIF (and JPEG) losslesly, so one gains a bit from the improved entropy coding.

https://github.com/libjxl/libjxl

But it's not an animated image format.

Thundik81 · 7th October 2024, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay123210599

But it's not an animated image format.

What?
https://gitlab.com/wg1/jpeg-xl/-/blo...view.md#frames

Z2697 · 7th October 2024, 22:34

JXL surely can handle animated content. And compression ratio is usually better than WebP. With more pixel formats support.

I still strongly discourage you to convert videos to animated images unless for a good reason, which is totally up to you. I'm just telling my suggestion, but still I provided you enough information you want.
(I guess I have said it enough and I won't further mention this if I continue to participate in this topic)

4th October 2024, 21:53	#1 \| Link
jay123210599 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2024 Posts: 177	APNG vs. Animated WEBP Which has the higher quality? Which would be a better alternative to gifs, apngs or lossless animated webps?

5th October 2024, 17:05	#2 \| Link
Z2697 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2024 Posts: 196	Lossless is lossless, dude. Quality is equal. HOWEVER somewhat "quality related" thing is that WebP Lossless only supports ARGB (8-8-8-8) this single one pixel format. Compression ratio wise WebP Lossless is typically better than PNG. BUT an actual video codec with at least P frames would do far better. Not necessarily HEIF, an animated HEIF is just a mp4 with video stream and an image-item for thumbnail (and perhaps optionally some other stuff). A lot of "GIF" sharing platforms and social medias have been converting them to video clips long before HEIF was introduced. Although these platforms are probably not using lossless compression like you intended but many video codecs are capable. Video formats also has the benefit of directly taking YUV format frames from your videos. (based on your other threads, you are converting videos right?) You can even just cut some GOP out and call it a day. That's bit-exact, perfectly lossless, "more lossless" than your proposal (APNG or WebP ,because of the YUV to RGB conversion) Here's some of my rant about iamge formats: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...91#post2006891 My another rant, if you forgive me: This is just weird, dude. Why are you so seriously considering to convert your videos into "animated images"? What's the use case??? Last edited by Z2697; 5th October 2024 at 17:35.

6th October 2024, 08:25	#4 \| Link
Z2697 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2024 Posts: 196	NONE. They don't use YUV. But less strictly speaking, 8bit RGB should be enough. Both format are capable. Should you do that IMO? Absolutely not. But are they much better than GIF? Surely. Last edited by Z2697; 6th October 2024 at 08:28.

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6th October 2024, 16:06	#5 \| Link
GeoffreyA Registered User Join Date: Jun 2024 Location: South Africa Posts: 123	JPEG XL is worth a look. It can also recompress GIF (and JPEG) losslesly, so one gains a bit from the improved entropy coding. https://github.com/libjxl/libjxl

7th October 2024, 22:34	#9 \| Link
Z2697 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2024 Posts: 196	JXL surely can handle animated content. And compression ratio is usually better than WebP. With more pixel formats support. I still strongly discourage you to convert videos to animated images unless for a good reason, which is totally up to you. I'm just telling my suggestion, but still I provided you enough information you want. (I guess I have said it enough and I won't further mention this if I continue to participate in this topic)