Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Capturing and Editing Video > VirtualDub, VDubMod & AviDemux

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11th June 2021, 14:18   #121  |  Link
poisondeathray
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotte View Post
This was a helpful excursion that allows me to draw the following exclusions:

Older 8-bit "familiy and people" footage which was recorded in full range (because I just simply didn't know better) should have been better recorded in TV range, because this is sth you do not want to grade a lot but just simply "quick cut and watch" on different PC-Monitors, TV sets or projectors.

Lately high quality landscape filming comes to the fore. I am recording in 10-bit with flat profiles (maybe Log-profiles later or HDR). The goal is to pull the very best quality out of it so grading in most cases is mandatory.

I understood that full range is probably the better choice for the latter. However the price might be to add ColorYUV(levels="PC->TV") at the end of the process if the video is intended for non-full range players/monitors and in this case to take care that ColorYUV() is not doing any harm to the colors and creates no banding.

And generally the final encoder should be one that tells the color range to the player. I will be trying this out with mpv.

Do this sound coherent to you ?

Thanks!
Yes, but for the RGB to YUV step, (from a full range YUV source initially), if you're grading , or working in resolve, you're working in RGB

It would be faster (and better quality) to go directly to limited range YUV from RGB; instead of RGB to full range YUV then to limited range YUV in 8 or 10 bit (using a coloryuv or similar step) - because the latter involves an extra quantization step. You can demonstrate that 2 steps introduces more banding. Basically, fewer steps in integer math (resolve works internally in float), results in higher quality, fewer rounding losses
poisondeathray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2021, 16:08   #122  |  Link
Hotte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 206
Well, I do not grade with Resolve. I do the grading in Edius usually in YUV (I might be using the Edius-internal Primary Color Correction Filter which is suspected to work in RGB, but let's leave that out).

If this is not what you were refering to, then I could understand that it might be better to record tv-range rather than full-range (which applies to sensor-RBG > YUV) with having to apply ColorYUV() for tv-range at the end of the yuv-chain because quality loss of the additional ColorYUV() quantisation is likely to be more relevant than the narrower range. To put it short: Only record Full if you are sure to also display Full.

This way ?
Hotte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2021, 19:33   #123  |  Link
poisondeathray
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,744
In general, you'd only use full if you're going to be grading it more than some minor adjustments (if you're still going to limited, full range acquisition can help when grading) , or if you final output is full

How are you adjusting the log footage ? If you're using LUTs , there is going to be an RGB step somewhere (at least internally or hidden)
poisondeathray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2021, 20:16   #124  |  Link
Hotte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 206
Ok, so I need to weigh the decision according due to the level of grading needed. Since I always fight with high contrast with my landscape footage I will probably stay with Full while recording and maybe I will have a projector being capable of displaying Full as well. Seems more future-proof to me and ColorYUV() did quite a good job I found.

Currently I am not shooting LOG because it has to be paid extra with the Panasonic G9. I am using a profile called Cinelike-D which is pretty soft. I grade it to personal gusto using standard YUV-Tools in Edius. But if the GH6 comes out I will probably go for either YUV422 10-bit 50p with HLG2100 or - if it is available - VLOG but with V-Gamma (very wide gamut).

I want to move to wide gamut about which I had an interesting discussion with Frank.

So I start to shoot HLG.2010/2100 which is also available on my G9 (10-bit but only 25p). There is a grading option in the Primary Color Correction Filter in Edius, where you can also apply LUTs to transate HLG2100 to Rec709 until I am equipped with an HLG capable display or projector (might take some time).
The conversion results are not very satisfying. The reds and greens do not look very natural. Just started...
Hotte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2021, 01:13   #125  |  Link
poisondeathray
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotte View Post
Ok, so I need to weigh the decision according due to the level of grading needed. Since I always fight with high contrast with my landscape footage I will probably stay with Full while recording and maybe I will have a projector being capable of displaying Full as well. Seems more future-proof to me and ColorYUV() did quite a good job I found.
It's just a general suggestion, not some fixed rule - try it out and see what works for you

Full range is "better" in the sense that shadows, midtones, highlights are less compressed. ie. A given scene is described more accurate or better. You have 1024 "slots". It's easier/better to make adjustments or tease out details in a given range
poisondeathray is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.