Synchonisation Problems Sony HX9V

[rodgar]

I openened the video exactly like you did. In VD everything is fine.

After that I openend all files (The 5 I uploaded) in DGIndexNV and joined them like you said "Output Trimmed TS (without trimming)". This file plays back well in Splash but with tremendous desync in MPC-HC and only sometimes fine in VLC - exactly like before with tsmuxer or tsdemux. The Desync is growing during time. It's hard to say exactly how much, but at least a second at the end of this video.
After that I put it into an MKV-Container because my TV doesn't playback MTS-Files. Ths MKV shows exact the same desync-behaviour like the ts does: Splash plays well, VLC sometimes, MPC-HC and the TV: desync.

I checked the time during videoplayback with a stopwatch. Somehow the videoduration is longer than it should be. It seems audioplayback is correct but video is to slow. It looks exactly like my PC hasn't enough power to decode the videoframes in time... But again: why only with HX9V? The files of the Canon HF-S100 have more Bitrate (27mbps) but are playing fine. And if it's only my PC, why is my TV showing the same result?

[poisondeathray]

I didn't look at any of your samples - were they 1080p59.94 (i.e. "60p") ? That's what the HX9V uses in the highest quality mode. It's a lot more intensive to play (bitrate has less of a role) than "regular" AVCHD 1080i59.94 (ie. "60i")

If so, it's not supported by many hardware devices yet (it falls under AVCHD 2.0 specs, which only a few newer models support offically, but some may still play it)

[rodgar]

@poisondeathray
Thats right, but my footage is 1080i50

[Guest]

Originally Posted by rodgar

I openened the video exactly like you did. In VD everything is fine.

OK, so far so good.

After that I openend all files (The 5 I uploaded) in DGIndexNV and joined them like you said "Output Trimmed TS (without trimming)". This file plays back well in Splash but with tremendous desync in MPC-HC and only sometimes fine in VLC - exactly like before with tsmuxer or tsdemux. The Desync is growing during time. It's hard to say exactly how much, but at least a second at the end of this video.
After that I put it into an MKV-Container because my TV doesn't playback MTS-Files. Ths MKV shows exact the same desync-behaviour like the ts does: Splash plays well, VLC sometimes, MPC-HC and the TV: desync.

But now you are totally deviating from what I am suggesting. My process would continue with feeding the script to x264 and then muxing its output with the audio outputted by DGIndexNV. Chapters lists we can worry about later. Right now we are trying to analyze the desync.

[Aside: You asked if DGIndexNV could join MTS's and I replied yes and showed how. But it is equivalent to copy /b and that does not make totally kosher output because the timestamps are not adjusted to be contiguous. Some players may barf on it. But you could feed it back into DGIndexNV and work with it without issues. Anyway, that is not what I am suggesting and now I regret mentioning it because you've gone off into the weeds with it.]

Look, you were talking about re-encoding your videos and that's what I addressed. Now you are just trying to join MTS's and play the result?

You are jumping all over and thereby making it impossible to diagnose your issue.

So what is it? Are you trying to develop a working process or are you set on your existing one and are committed to finding a tool to reliably join MTS files? I can try to help either way but let's be perfectly clear so as not to waste time and effort.

[poisondeathray]

Originally Posted by rodgar

But for the future: What tool would you recommend to join MTS-Files - even within an AVCHD-Structure? tsmuxer and tsdemux is the only way I know.

For just joining clips (if still you have original folder structure and metadata) - use the bundled software

http://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/www/disoft/int/pmb/feature/edit/merge.html

If you've lost the bundled CD, then you can download a replacement from Sony
http://www.sony-mea.com/support/download/316131



If you're re-encoding it, then the DGIndexNV method outlined by neuron2 looks like it should work

[rodgar]

@neuron2
You're absolutely right... and I apologize for that. It's because by chance it happens a single fast transcode of one Day works perfect everywhere - Then I transcode the whole movie (for the 100th time) in automated 2pass just to see its desync again. Then I make a fast transcode of one Day again and see desync again. This issue is playing cat-and-mouse game with me... that's why I'm jumping around. But as said before I apologize for that.

I'll try to focus more and make a complete transcode of the whole movie with your method. Only need to install x264 VFW for VD because I usualy work with MeGui.
Edit: Couldn't get x264 to work with VD - x264 doesn't like my line which is for automated 2-pass. After trying to change it a little, it says something about interlace and weighted p-frame prediction is not supported. Since at least interlaced is crucial I use MeGui instead, hope that's ok!?

Only to see if I get something wrong - That's what I should do:
Open all MTS-files in DGIndexNV, save the DGI, demux audio and create AVS. Open AVS in VD and Transcode with x264... I'll say hello again if this is done.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by rodgar

Only to see if I get something wrong - That's what I should do:
Open all MTS-files in DGIndexNV, save the DGI, demux audio and create AVS. Open AVS in VD and Transcode with x264... I'll say hello again if this is done.

Yes, but note that demuxing the audio is not a separate step. It happens when you Save Project with audio demux enabled. It's all described in the user manual. Use the audio demuxed by DGIndexNV; don't use a separate application.

Nobody in their right mind uses x264VFW IMHO.

[rodgar]

Transcode is done... I would now mux the video, DGIndexNV's ac3, chapters and Subtitles in MKV-Merge - Because chapters and Subtitles aren't present, I only take audio plus video... done.
Playback in MPC-HC... everything works fine... Playback on my TV... no desync. I would say: Yippee!

... at least for this time. Unfortunately I had this result more than one time only to see the next video with desync again. But maybe not joining in tsmuxer made the problem gone - I hope so. The only thing left is to get those chapters per day. I see no other option than doing that in parrallel with tsdemux, but that's ok, as long video is in sync

Nobody in their right mind uses x264VFW IMHO.

So x264 within VD is no really option!?

[poisondeathray]

Originally Posted by rodgar

So x264 within VD is no really option!?

Besides x264vfw, other options: use vdub as a frameserver, or use the external encoder option - these aren't really "within" vdub but you get the idea

http://forums.virtualdub.org/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=18789&

But you're using megui anyway, so why do you need vdub for anything ?

[Guest]

Originally Posted by rodgar

... at least for this time. Unfortunately I had this result more than one time only to see the next video with desync again.

Post again if this process causes any issues for you down the road. I don't anticipate that, but you never know.

Perhaps others can help with your chapter list requirement; I don't ever work with such things. I'll review the thread again though to see if I can think of anything.

[rodgar]

But you're using megui anyway, so why do you need vdub for anything ?

I use VD for my older miniDV, Hi8, VHS and Super8 Captures... but only for capture and sometimes filtering. I was only curious, because neuron2 opened the AVS in VD to check if its in sync - then press "Save as" is'nt that far away

@neuron2
Thanks for your help. I appreciate you're helping others way below your skills.

And for that Chapter-Issue:
Basically I only need to count the videoframes per MTS, with them I could create my own chapters. I do this with AVI-Files when Capturing with VD. I have only to search the Header of each file for that info - And the structure was listed in the AVI-Documentation - Unfortunately I couldn't find anything similar about MTS-Files... Do you eventually know a ressource like wotsit.org but with info about MTS?

[Guest]

Originally Posted by rodgar

And for that Chapter-Issue:
Basically I only need to count the videoframes per MTS, with them I could create my own chapters.

The cut list file produced by the Joints program contains the frame counts for each file.

MTS is just a transport stream with a 4-byte timestamp before each sync byte.

[rodgar]

The cut list file produced by the Joints program contains the frame counts for each file.

Yes I saw that and I'm already on it to use that cutlist-File. But I thought, maybe I could implement my own little Framecount. So I have to find and count those sync-Bytes to get what I want? How hard can that be?

Edit: Second Movie is transcoded... No desync. Wondering what tsmuxer did to the files while joining to produce this massive desync.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by rodgar

Yes I saw that and I'm already on it to use that cutlist-File. But I thought, maybe I could implement my own little Framecount. So I have to find and count those sync-Bytes to get what I want? How hard can that be?

No, you don't count transport sync bytes. Look at the code for Joints if you want some ideas. You have to fully parse the elementary video stream and count frames. Parsing is far from trivial and involves much more that bumping a count when you see a certain byte sequence. Furthermore it is different for MPEG2, AVC, and VC1.

Wondering what tsmuxer did to the files while joining to produce this massive desync.

Probably violating T-STD buffering and/or splicing constraints specified in ISO 13818-1. Concatenating transport streams is also far from a trivial matter. Read the relevant sections of the spec to see what can go wrong.

[rodgar]

I know it's far away from beeing easy... I was only joking
In fact I think the whole matter is far beyond my knowledge - But I try to learn. Reviewing old posts of you (Especially http://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-145856.html), I saw your library now asks for username and password, why is that?
I peeked into the Joints Sourcecode but understood almost nothing. At the moment I try to understand at least something from what I can find... maybe it helps:
https://github.com/lerks/BluRay/wiki/ApplicationFormat
http://dvd.sourceforge.net/dvdinfo/pes-hdr.html
http://dvd.sourceforge.net/dvdinfo/mpeghdrs.html

[Guest]

Originally Posted by rodgar

I saw your library now asks for username and password, why is that?

I don't hold the copyrights to the material in there and so have no license to distribute it. It's there for my personal use only. Sorry about that.

The AVC and MPEG2 specs are easily available, VC1 I've never seen freely available online.

[rodgar]

And how did you learn about VC-1?

[Ghitulescu]

Standards can be bought

[Guest]

Yes, individuals can purchase standards documents, but I work for a company that makes SOCs for set-top boxes and the company provides my access to them.