madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Moony349]

Originally Posted by madshi

Actually I usually recommend to set everything to 0-255 (which is also what I'm using myself). But some displays don't support that.

Agree with Madshi... but I might be mistaken as to why. Could anyone clarify?

I was under the impression that there is always a conversion from 16-235 to 0-255 at some point along the chain when you're using a PC because video cards don't like 16-235.

If you set MadVR to 16-235 you're getting 1 video card up-conversion, 1 video card down conversion:

16-235 source
MadVR converts to RGB; upsamples chroma in 16-235 colorspace (No BTB/WTW color information at all)
After MadVR, video card converts 16-235 to 0-255, does its thing
Video card converts back down to 16-235 and outputs 16-235

You're better off doing the following (1 MadVR up-conversion, 1 video card down-conversion):

16-235 source
MadVR converts to RGB, upsamples chroma in 0-255 colorspace
Video card converts back down to 16-235 and outputs 16-235 (Lose BTB/WTW color information here, which is later)

Best case is only 1 MadVR up-conversion:

16-235 source
MadVR converts to RGB, upsamples chroma 0-255 colorspace
Video card outputs 0-255 (Keep BTB/WTW)

[turbojet]

Originally Posted by madshi

Oh well, I remember. The point is: I'm afraid of making the settings dialog too complex. It's already frightening to new users as it is right now. Maybe some time in the future...

Thanks for considering. Speaking for myself, playing with resizers are the fun part, not the complicated part. The complicated part being the tweaks and queues needed to get it to work on various video cards. With the latest nvidia drivers out now the only default thing I need to change to work as expected is the queues to 4/4, rest being optional. Maybe a simple setting that hides all the tweaks and things that don't need to be touched by most with defaults could simplify the gui.

Bicubic's negative blur makes things 'pop' like the the aforementioned darbee darblet for free. Leaving default at 0 would behave as current bicubic and users may find something they really like by adjusting blur, like me. Negative blur is becoming a common suggestion to gain sharpness without affecting speed in avisynth.

Look for "EWA Lanczos" in ImageMagick, that's pretty much the same as Jinc. ImageMagick is open source. So it shouldn't be too hard to make it work in AviSynth for someone with AviSynth development experience. ImageMagick doesn't have an anti-ringing filter, though, that's purely my own invention. I've explained that in my "non-ringing Lanczos" thread in the doom9 AviSynth area, though. None of the AviSynth devs seemed to be very interested at the time, though (I had started that thread a loooong time ago, years (?) before I actually finally implemented the anti-ringing filter in madVR).

It's a very interesting thread, would be nice to be able to test everything in it on videos, only thing I could find is an image reader based on an old imagemagick version. Like you said avisynth plugin devs haven't given it attention but it doesn't seem like many new or updated plugins in the past few years, mainly scripts to run plugins. Perhaps vapoursynth will pique their interest.

[NicolasRobidoux]

Mathias:
Given how well your "overshoot limiter" seems to work, I understand better your use of many lobes.

[Thunderbolt8]

regarding the seeking bar, would it be possible to add additional time information when seeking, the time within a movie the mouse is moving the seeking bar? would be way easier to find specific scenes or spots.

guess you could do it either when the mouse is dragging the seeking bar or also when hovering over different places of the seeking with the mouse.

[NicolasRobidoux]

Note: I have never liked Jinc 4 (EWA Lanczos 4-lobe in ImageMagick speak) for natural images. Even with the deblur optimized, it is a very unusual scheme, very different in character from Jinc 3.
I may have to triple check on this, but my opinion right now is that if you are going to go higher than Jinc 3 lobes, skip 4 and go up to 5.
Also: The "best" deblurs for Jinc depend on the number of lobes.
I'll try to be more specific in a future post.

[Xaurus]

Originally Posted by Moony349

Best case is only 1 MadVR up-conversion:

16-235 source
MadVR converts to RGB, upsamples chroma 0-255 colorspace
Video card outputs 0-255 (Keep BTB/WTW)

This is interesting. I was under the impression that it was best to set LAV to NV12. Or am I not following here?

I have it configured like you say (I think), 0-255 hdmi, 0-255 in madvr and 0-255 in TV.

[blackjack12]

Originally Posted by blackjack12

A few notes.
I have 4 systems

1. 2 HTPC clients running AMD 6570/2GB DDR3 graphics, one using Windows 7 64 bit the other Windows 8 64 bit RTM
2. 1 system running AMD 4890/1GB DDR5 “legacy” graphics, Windows 7 64bit
3. 1 system running NVidia 560Ti/2GB DDR5, Windows 8 RTM

0.84.2 madVRblackjack test build

Initial test on systems listed in 1 with Windows 7 OR 8 RTM – all MKV container material for playback
(NOTE: This is not a Windows 8 issue. It is seen in identical systems, one running Windows 7 and one running windows 8)

MPC-HC 1.6.4.6052 or MPC-BE 1.0.3.1
Catalyst Driver ver 12.8
LAV Filters 51.3-118
madVR – all delay playback checked, GPU flush settings default

Windowed Mode or FSE:
With any interlaced content madVR causes an error and does not load at all, you can hear sound but see no video. All other content plays without issue – non-interlaced h264, VC1 and MPEG2 and there is no jumping around issues causing dropped frames and what appears to be rendering or buffering freezes.

The madVR crash report for the Windows 7 system is here:
http://sdrv.ms/VRKJ2h

System 2 above does not have any issues when using 0.84.2 std. … Another note that system 2 never worked correctly with interlaced material and in other areas until the 0.83.x updates … ? Was anything changed in the linking and handling of interlaced content with the new versions of madVR?

System 3 has dropped frame issues with 0.84.2, will load with the test build but still has dropped frame issues when jumping around. This system uses the latest NVidia drivers and CUVID with LAV.

I probably have more and broader material than many if not all, over 2100 files stored on over 48TB server array. Over 99% MKV content prepped from original materials. It is the interlaced content that is now causing problems. With this latest test build, madVR actually causes an error message and will not even load with this kind of material with the AMD Radeon systems …

I test all the time with:
"Life" - VC1 interlaced content (1080i)
"Our National Parks, Americas Best Idea" - h264 interlaced content (1080i)

These are the first files I look at as they have always been a tough test in the past. If these work then go to a number of other demanding BD conversions such as Avatar, Baraka and many others. All material converted from original with makeMKV and then remuxed with the latest version of mkvmerge.

Hope this may help.

The original problem you were reporting, on which of those 4 systems did it occur? On all 4?
On all systems except system 2. System 2 actually worked correctly with all content for the first time after testing with 0.83.x builds and has ever since. So whatever deinterlacing logic you changed at that point “fixed” this legacy 4000 series Radeon system but has caused problems with much newer 6000 series systems

Did the original problem only occur with interlaced content, btw, or also with progressive content?
Originally, I saw it with any content, just jump around with any file that I tested and it would eventually freeze the que/s and start dropping frames.

Not sure if I understand this correctly. So basically deinterlacing doesn't work, but progressive content plays perfectly. Did I get that right? Not sure why deinterlacing doesn't work. The test build was a quick hack of moving some v0.82.5 code back into the v0.84.2 source code. It's *really* difficult because there was a very big change between v0.82.5 and v0.83.0 in the source code. The change itself shouldn't do much, but it makes it hard for me to create versions that sit between v0.82.5 and v0.83.0.
With interlaced content, the test build madVR actually crashes and generates the crash reports that I gave a link to. It crashes and you get a black screen, no video at all and only sound with the AMD 6570 systems. With the NVidia system just massive frame drops.

With all other progressive content that I tested I did not see any problems, except that on a “qualitative” basis things seemed to take a little longer to load up and start.

Did System 2 have issues with the official v0.84?
No … As noted above, system 2 worked well with all 0.83-0.84 builds that I tested. But it actually did not work correctly with interlaced content with 0.82.5 … It actually worked correctly with the first version of 0.83.x that I tested and has ever since …

Yes, there was a change in deinterlacing logic. Which is the code which I tried to revert in the best build I made for you.

Again … thanks for the great work and hope this helps.

[andyvt]

Is it possible to configure madVR to use different algorithms for different resolutions?

[kerman]

Does this work with MPC-HC x64?

[jaagil]

Looks like Jinc 3 taps with anti-ringing on image upscaling runs fine on GTX 285 & I5-750, I get few dropped frames and usually just one delayed frame when fullscreening. (Running windowed mode.)
Can someone explain me what is the difference in Chroma and Luma(Now "Image") (Up)scaling? (Or link to it, I have a feeling it's been asked more than twice already)
I have Chroma upscaling set as SoftCubic 100, without Anti-ringing, and it has no ringing so there would be no difference I guess?
When SoftCubic is set to 100 and you activate anti-ringing it makes SoftCubic go to 50 automatically. (For the first time, after you set it back to 100 you can activate it but I guess that's meant to show there's no point in doing so?)
Thanks.

[andyvt]

Originally Posted by kerman

Does this work with MPC-HC x64?

No. madVR is 32-bit only.

[Moony349]

Originally Posted by Xaurus

This is interesting. I was under the impression that it was best to set LAV to NV12. Or am I not following here?

I have it configured like you say (I think), 0-255 hdmi, 0-255 in madvr and 0-255 in TV.

For LAV I check off all of the output formats and leave RBG output levels as untouched.

To check your colorspace, what I've found works best is downloading the mp4 version of these test videos:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration

Use the APL clipping (Basic Settings #2) to make sure your colors are correct. Nvidia cards notoriously will output 16-235 over HDMI unless you hack the monitor INF or use Madshi's madnvlevelstweaker (I haven't tested it but I assume it works).

You want to be able to see blinking in the white area up to at least 234 (And black down to 17 or so ideally). If the whole screen is blinking your card is probably converting down to 16-235 and you should try using madshi's tweak.

[NicolasRobidoux]

Mathias:
IMHO, instead of adding more lobes to Jinc (3 is enough), I'd add quadratic B-spline-windowed Jinc 3-lobe with no deblur ("blur=1") or with the same deblur you use with Jinc if it's easier.
Examples: sigmoidized EWA quadratic B-spline windowed Jinc 3-lobe.
(I do realize you have many many many other things to do.)

[rahzel]

Originally Posted by madshi

Actually I usually recommend to set everything to 0-255 (which is also what I'm using myself). But some displays don't support that.

Thanks, thought so.

[sunnah]

Chroma upscaling: Jinc 8 taps
Image upscaling: Jinc 8 taps
Image downscaling: Lanczos 8 taps

(I have the anti-ringing option enabled on everyone of them.

All work great on the NVIDIA GTX 570M without dropped/delayed frames. The image and colours of 1080p, 720p and below are magnificent. And the display modes option also works really well for me.

Keep up the good work Madshi.

[edragon]

sunnah:
Chroma upscaling: Jinc 8 taps
Image upscaling: Jinc 8 taps
Image downscaling: Lanczos 8 taps

(I have the anti-ringing option enabled on everyone of them.

All work great on the NVIDIA GTX 570M without dropped/delayed frames. The image and colours of 1080p, 720p and below are magnificent. And the display modes option also works really well for me.

Keep up the good work Madshi.[/COLOR][/COLOR]







do you play 60fps video?

[sunnah]

Originally Posted by edragon

sunnah:
do you play 60fps video?

Most of the time I run 30fps (Korean/Japanese tv shows) and 24fps videos. (the display ofcourse changes with the framerate, but 60fps videos also worked well without problems.)

[edragon]

Originally Posted by sunnah

Most of the time I run 30fps (Korean/Japanese tv shows) and 24fps videos. (the display ofcourse changes with the framerate, but 60fps videos also worked well without problems.)

even with 720p 60fps?

my gtx550ti can only run jinc3 without antiring when play 720p 60fps!

[sunnah]

Originally Posted by edragon

even with 720p 60fps?

my gtx550ti can only run jinc3 without antiring when play 720p 60fps!

Then I'm lucky I guess lol, I really took the laptop just for these high-end purposes.

What is the combination that you use if I may ask? MadVR + LAV, including CUVID?

[edragon]

Originally Posted by sunnah

Then I'm lucky I guess lol, I really took the laptop just for these high-end purposes.

What is the combination that you use if I may ask? MadVR + LAV, including CUVID?

I use mpc+madvr+ffdshow video audio+haali +SVP+reclock

but i do not use LAV
video use soft decoding

maybe gtx570 is much greater than gtx550ti.....