Need to delay DTS-HD MA track then mux to mp4

Yosho · 5th December 2023, 00:31

If I mux a ts with DTS-HD MA track and DV HEVC video with tsmuxer and select to delay it, then convert to mkv it stays delayed, but if I try to convert to MP4 the audio is changed back to being delayed.
What can I use to change the audio delay permanently where the delay stays for good and then can be used in MP4 conversions?

Emulgator · 6th December 2023, 00:25

You would have to specify again because the offset you want is not part of the source file, but became a property of the container.
If you want the correction to be with the file: reencode.

tebasuna51 · 6th December 2023, 13:04

eac3to can insert silent frames to a DTS-MA without recode it, and the delay can be preserved. For instance:

Quote:

eac3to Input.dts Output.dts +300ms
...
DTS Master Audio, 7.1 channels, 24 bits, 48kHz, dialnorm: 0dB
(core: DTS-ES, 5.1 channels, 1509kbps, 48kHz, dialnorm: 0dB)
Applying DTS delay...
A remaining delay of +2ms could not be fixed.
Creating file output.dts
...

Input.dts
Total Frames / SubF: 5614 / 5614
Duration ..........: 59882 ms (0 h. 0 m. 59.882 s.)

Output.dts
Total Frames / SubF: 5642 / 5642
Duration ..........: 60181 ms (0 h. 1 m. 0.181 s.)

eac3to add 28 silent frames of 10.666 ms, a total of 298.6 ms, for that the remaining: +2ms could not be fixed

You can do the delay +- 5 ms

SeeMoreDigital · 6th December 2023, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosho

What can I use to change the audio delay permanently where the delay stays for good and then can be used in MP4 conversions?

Out of interest... Why are you using the .mp4 container?

Emulgator · 7th December 2023, 12:59

Quote:

eac3to can insert silent frames to a DTS-MA without recode it, and the delay can be preserved.

Top solution, will keep that in mind. Thanks, tebasuna51 !

Yosho · 7th December 2023, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

Out of interest... Why are you using the .mp4 container?

MKV is not supported on separate hardware used to view.

SeeMoreDigital · 7th December 2023, 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosho

MKV is not supported on separate hardware used to view.

Really!

What hardware are you using?

Yosho · 7th December 2023, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by tebasuna51

eac3to can insert silent frames to a DTS-MA without recode it, and the delay can be preserved. For instance:

Input.dts
Total Frames / SubF: 5614 / 5614
Duration ..........: 59882 ms (0 h. 0 m. 59.882 s.)

Output.dts
Total Frames / SubF: 5642 / 5642
Duration ..........: 60181 ms (0 h. 1 m. 0.181 s.)

eac3to add 28 silent frames of 10.666 ms, a total of 298.6 ms, for that the remaining: +2ms could not be fixed

You can do the delay +- 5 ms

Figured it out with your help! Thanks!
Should have been using the 100ms option and changing the - to a + and changing it to +1024ms.

Yosho · 7th December 2023, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

Really!

What hardware are you using?

LG C9 USB port.
I didn't like the Shield that everyone talks about..
You have to install apps, and change settings and things, and I just don't have time to dedicate for that to be to my liking.

SeeMoreDigital · 7th December 2023, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosho

LG C9 USB port.
I didn't like the Shield that everyone talks about..
You have to install apps, and change settings and things, and I just don't have time to dedicate for that to be to my liking.

The [2019] LG C9 supports the .mkv container just fine. However, in order to hear lossless DTS-HD MA you'll need to access the TV's pass-through mode and send the DTS-HD MA bit-stream via HDMI to an AVR. Regular lossy DTS audio can be natively decoded by the TV's in-built/on-board audio decoder.

Just-so-you-know.... The C9 is the last LG television to support native decoding of lossy DTS.

Yosho · 7th December 2023, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

The [2019] LG C9 supports the .mkv container just fine. However, in order to hear lossless DTS-HD MA you'll need to access the TV's pass-through mode and send the DTS-HD MA bit-stream via HDMI to an AVR. Regular lossy DTS audio can be natively decoded by the TV's in-built/on-board audio decoder.

Just-so-you-know.... The C9 is the last LG television to support native decoding of lossy DTS.

Never had a problem with DTS-HD MA myself on the C9.
But maybe I'm just playing the AC3 inside it or something?

Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5@High
HDR format : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.05.06, BL+RPU
Codec ID : hev1
Codec ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration : 2 h 12 min
Bit rate : 16.2 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.082
Stream size : 15.0 GiB (70%)
Title :
Language : English
Tagged date : 2023-12-07 15:30:45 UTC
Color range : Full
Codec configuration box : hvcC+dvcC

Audio #1
ID : 2
Format : E-AC-3
Format/Info : Enhanced AC-3
Commercial name : Dolby Digital Plus
Codec ID : ec-3
Duration : 2 h 12 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 024 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 968 MiB (4%)
Title : Original
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main
Default : Yes
Alternate group : 1
Tagged date : 2023-12-07 15:30:45 UTC

Audio #2
ID : 3
Format : DTS XLL
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name : DTS-HD Master Audio
Codec ID : mp4a-A9
Duration : 2 h 12 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 2 034 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 2 376 kb/s / 2 034 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossless
Stream size : 1.88 GiB (9%)
Language : English
Default : Yes
Alternate group : 2
Tagged date : 2023-12-07 15:30:45 UTC

Audio #3
ID : 4
Format : DTS XLL
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name : DTS-HD Master Audio
Codec ID : mp4a-A9
Duration : 2 h 12 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 3 672 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 5 194 kb/s / 3 672 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : C L R Ls Rs LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossless
Stream size : 3.39 GiB (16%)
Language : English
Default : Yes
Alternate group : 3
Tagged date : 2023-12-07 15:30:45 UTC

SeeMoreDigital · 7th December 2023, 18:12

The television will be able tell you which audio track it's accessing and playing...

Yosho · 7th December 2023, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

The television will be able tell you which audio track it's accessing and playing...

Is it not supposed to be able to play them?

SeeMoreDigital · 7th December 2023, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosho

Is it not supposed to be able to play them?

The TV's media player app can access and play Dolby Digital Plus. It can also access and play the lossy DTS core embedded within a lossless DTS-HD MA stream.

Have you tried selecting between the three audio tracks?

Yosho · 7th December 2023, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

The TV's media player app can access and play Dolby Digital Plus. It can also access and play the lossy DTS core embedded within a lossless DTS-HD MA stream.

Have you tried selecting between the three audio tracks?

Yep, they all work. So I'm playing the DTS core, since it shows as DTS, but not the full lossless stream because it would be useless with tv speakers?

SeeMoreDigital · 7th December 2023, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosho

Yep, they all work. So I'm playing the DTS core, since it shows as DTS, but not the full lossless stream because it would be useless with tv speakers?

Indeed...

Out of interest... Do you have an AVR capable of decoding DTS-HD MA bit-streams?

Yosho · 7th December 2023, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

Indeed...

Out of interest... Do you have an AVR capable of decoding DTS-HD MA bit-streams?

I do not.

SeeMoreDigital · 7th December 2023, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosho

I do not.

In that case it's pretty pointless keeping the lossless DTS-HD MA stream. You might as well extract and keep the lossy DTS core(s).

I see from your MediaInfo report that the video stream has been encoded with Dolby Vision. This being the case you will need to mux everything into the .mp4 or .m2ts/.ts container.

If the video stream had been encoded with regular HDR10, muxing everything into the .mkv container will be fine.

Yosho · 7th December 2023, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

In that case it's pretty pointless keeping the lossless DTS-HD MA stream. You might as well extract and keep the lossy DTS core(s).

I see from your MediaInfo report that the video stream has been encoded with Dolby Vision. This being the case you will need to mux everything into the .mp4 or .m2ts/.ts container.

If the video stream had been encoded with regular HDR10, muxing everything into the .mkv container will be fine.

That would make sense.

Sometimes I wonder though about if I'm seeing things or not, and some Dolby Vision is washed out or grayer blacks on P5 MP4's as well..

SeeMoreDigital · 7th December 2023, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosho

Sometimes I wonder though about if I'm seeing things or not, and some Dolby Vision is washed out or grayer blacks on P5 MP4's as well..

That's not something I can help you with as I play my Dolby Vision encoded files using an OPPO UDP-203 hardware media player...

5th December 2023, 00:31	#1 \| Link
Yosho Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 37	Need to delay DTS-HD MA track then mux to mp4 If I mux a ts with DTS-HD MA track and DV HEVC video with tsmuxer and select to delay it, then convert to mkv it stays delayed, but if I try to convert to MP4 the audio is changed back to being delayed. What can I use to change the audio delay permanently where the delay stays for good and then can be used in MP4 conversions?

6th December 2023, 00:25	#2 \| Link
Emulgator Big Bit Savings Now ! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: close to the wall Posts: 1,671	You would have to specify again because the offset you want is not part of the source file, but became a property of the container. If you want the correction to be with the file: reencode. __________________ "To bypass shortcuts and find suffering...is called QUALity" (Die toten Augen von Friedrichshain) "Data reduction ? Yep, Sir. We're that issue working on. Synce invntoin uf lingöage..."

7th December 2023, 18:12	#12 \| Link
SeeMoreDigital Life's clearer in 4K UHD Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Notts, UK Posts: 12,248	The television will be able tell you which audio track it's accessing and playing... __________________ \| I've been testing hardware media playback devices and software A/V encoders and decoders since 2001 \| My Network Layout & A/V Gear \|

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