ffmpeg's DTS not playing on hardware decoders

[VA1DER]

I am having trouble getting any DTS (DCA) 5.1 track created in ffmpeg to decode properly on my hardware decoders. My two main AVRs are older JVC units that play back a loud buzz over top of any audio.

Interestingly, an old version of ffdcaenc will produce usable output, but ffmpeg's mkv muxer also doesn't much like using external tracks in many cases. I can get around the issues, but it complicates my workflow greatly to have to insert ffdcaenc and MKV Toolnix/mkvmerge into the mix.

I know that ffmpeg uses dcaenc's library for its dts/dca encoding. So I don't see why ffdcaenc can encode a track that will work while ffmpeg can't.

Does anyone know how to coax ffmpeg's dca encodes to tow the line a little better?

[tebasuna51]

I see that problem longtime ago, but no one is interested in modifying ffmpeg for an obsolete codec like DTS.
It's better to use AC3, which has better compatibility and quality/size than DTS.
The current use of DTS seems like an attempt to pass off edited audio as original; I don't see any other justification for it.

[microchip8]

I have the same issue. Encoded DTS by ffmpeg gets decoded by my AVR with a loud buzz.

No, DTS is not obsolete. And I find it sounds better than AC3/EAC3. Granted, the AC3/EAC3 encoder in ffmpeg is not best of all. DTS sounds more spacious to me. I don't really care for the a bit higher bitrate. You can't really compare DTS and AC3 1-on-1.

[VA1DER]

DTS isn't my first choice. For some critical titles that come in TrueHD (which my older JVC AVRs don't support) where I want to preserve quality, I will re-roll them as DTS @ 1509.75kbps.

I find DTS is superior to AC3 at anything over about 1100kbps.

That said, I don't want to start a DTS vs AC3 discussion. Just hoping there is some setting hidden in ffmpeg somewhere that will help.

[microchip8]

DTS encoder in ffmpeg is very experimental, that's why you need to use the -strict option to enable it. There are no hidden options that can "fix" it. Some coder with knowledge needs to have a look at it.

[tebasuna51]

Originally Posted by microchip8

... DTS sounds more spacious to me...

What is this?

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

We're not really going to argue about it. For the record, I say it was a better quality-to-size ratio.
We're not going to compare a 1500 bitrate to a 448 bitrate like the tracks on old DVDs.

But maybe yes with a 640 DD+ and with a AAC CVBR 448 (average, go over 1000 Kb/s when needed)
Remember disable the DRC for DD in AVR's to recover the original (maybe more spacious) dynamic range.
A old multichannel test:

[huhn]

Originally Posted by VA1DER

DTS isn't my first choice. For some critical titles that come in TrueHD (which my older JVC AVRs don't support) where I want to preserve quality, I will re-roll them as DTS @ 1509.75kbps.

I find DTS is superior to AC3 at anything over about 1100kbps.

That said, I don't want to start a DTS vs AC3 discussion. Just hoping there is some setting hidden in ffmpeg somewhere that will help.

how about LPCM or flac that get's deflate compressed by mkv container?
there is a real chance it is actually smaller and lossless.

or is his some spdif stuff?

[filler56789]

Apologies for being late to the party

Originally Posted by VA1DER

I know that ffmpeg uses dcaenc's library for its dts/dca encoding. So I don't see why ffdcaenc can encode a track that will work while ffmpeg can't.

Well, since I haven't read the source-code of ffmpeg, I suppose the dcaenc library used by ffmpeg is the unmodified stuff written by Aleksandr Patrakov.
ffdcaenc includes various improvements written by Aleksei Andropov. In other words,
libdcaenc =/= libffdcaenc.

[microchip8]

I really, really hope someone takes up working on the DTS encoder in FFmpeg! To me, DTS is superior sounding compared to AC-3 (I don't care for the bitrate differences). To me, DTS sounds more spatial.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yep... After all these years it would be great to have a fully working freeware DTS encoder

EDIT: It would appear that my LG OLED65C46LA TV is able to play FFmpeg DTS (48/24 1510kbps) encodes just fine. Out of interest has anybody tried cutting say a 500ms bit off a compliant DTS stream and adding it to the beginning of an FFmpeg DTS stream?

Unfortunately I'm currently unable to bit-stream DTS (or Dolby Digital) files to an AVR as most of my gear is packed up ready for my house move...

[tebasuna51]

Originally Posted by microchip8

... To me, DTS is superior sounding compared to AC-3 (I don't care for the bitrate differences). To me, DTS sounds more spatial.

Could you send me a short example where DTS sounds more spatial to you than AC3?

[microchip8]

Originally Posted by tebasuna51

Could you send me a short example where DTS sounds more spatial to you than AC3?

I will cut a short clip from a movie. But when watching movies using my AVR, and selecting between DTS and AC-3 tracks, the DTS definitely sounds more spatial. I do not know if this has to do with FFmpeg's encoder that I use to encode the source audio to AC-3. The DTS track gets directly copied from the disc or remux. I only copy the DTS core in case of DTS HD-MA audio... I will look around in my collection.

EDIT: OK, here's a 1 minute sample of the beginning of The Astronaut. It contains DTS core @ 1509 kbps (default track) extracted with -bsf:a dca_core from source audio using FFmpeg , AC-3 @ 640 kbps encoded from source with FFmpeg and E-AC-3 @ 960 kbps also encoded from source with FFmpeg. Source movie audio is DTS-HD MA -- https://nextcloud.teambelgium.net/s/rd6mzkHaynx5eSF

[tormento]

I really enjoy people comparing two lossless codecs (THD vs DTS-HD MA) saying that one is better than the other…

[microchip8]

Originally Posted by tormento

I really enjoy people comparing two lossless codecs (THD vs DTS-HD MA) saying that one is better than the other…

Huh? I'm comparing DTS Core vs AC-3. No lossless here!

[filler56789]

Originally Posted by tormento

I really enjoy people comparing two lossless codecs (THD vs DTS-HD MA) saying that one is better than the other…

Except that TrueHD is not always lossless

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=185664

[SeeMoreDigital]

When the first run of (Universal) Blu-ray Audio HFPA discs appeared back in 2013 they often had the same album encoded in multi-channel Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA (along with LPCM).

This made it pretty easy to de-mux the lossy cores from both and compare them.

That being said, unlike DTS audio streams all Dolby encoded audio streams are encoded with evil DialNorm...

[Kristy7]

does anyone know if the FFmpeg DTS encoder defaults to a different channel coupling or stereo matrixing setting compared to the AC3 encoder?coc mod apk